truth7t7 Posted April 7, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, abcdef said: The battle of Armageddon is last major battle in the war of Armageddon. That war is going on right now. "No" Armageddon isn't going on right now, the (Man Of Sin) hasn't been revealed to the church and world as scripture clearly teaches below in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV below "Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means" 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Edited April 7, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: "No" Armageddon isn't going on right now, Yes, the war of Armageddon IS going on right now. You might agree, a little, with the observation that the war that is going on right now between Israel and Iran with it's allies, is strikingly similar, or exactly like the circumstances as shown in the 6th vial/trumpet and the Rev 20 Magog war. You believe that these passages are parallel? I do also. Just observing the similarities makes it obvious. Are we in the Magog/kings of the east final war of Armageddon right now? The events and timelines match and the present circumstances match. But then some one will say, "But this hasn't happened yet", or, "That hasn't happened yet", well almost all of it has past. To understand how it has past, not only must someone leave the pretrib 7/1000 yr timeline, one must also leave behind many of the definitions of the entities and events. There is an Antichrist, there are many Antichrists. He is the king of a nation. A Roman nation that spans centuries, and not just a few years. He is the 4th beast of Dan 7, and the iron in the Dan 2 statue, 63 BC-1967. On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: the (Man Of Sin) hasn't been revealed to the church The man of sin is revealed to those who study the scriptures. The church/Pentecost kingdom of Israel, knew who the Antichrist was after the temple and Jerusalem fell in 70 AD. The statue in Dan 2 shows the iron goes from the legs and continues to he end of the toes, Rome beginning in 63 BC and ending in 1967 when Jerusalem was restored. The same as the Dan 7, 4th beast. -- Brother understand this, that the Bible was in the Latin language for centuries and out of the view of the population, even until our last few centuries. It remained hidden and a secret by the RCC. People were killed for translating it into German and other languages. It was death or prison to be caught with scripture in most of Europe. All because the Bishop of Rome and the RCC wanted complete control, over the truth. Once the Bible was translated, people rejected the RCC for their opposition to the what the Bible said. Millions died. The Bishop of Rome and the RCC have been the Antichrists for 2000 years, attacking the children of Israel and the true church/kingdom for centuries. You didn't think that the Bishop of Rome and the RCC are passive and "lamb like" did you? Rev 13:11. On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: and world as scripture clearly teaches below in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV below "Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means" 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV Paul and the other apostles thought that they might still be alive when Jesus came at the resur/rapt. It turns out that John was the only one left of that generation to see everything happen. Such as the 70 AD destruction and the great tribulation scattering. On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. v 2 Which Day of the Lord is this that Paul is speaking about? The day of the Lord against Jerusalem that was in 70 AD, when the temple and Jerusalem were made desolate? Only, say, 20 years ish away? Or, the final day of the Lord against the world that will end in fire? --- The revelation of Jesus as God's son has come over 1000's of years in different stages. It was revealed to Israel when the prophecies of Jesus came true about the destruction of Jerusalem. He will be revealed completely when He comes for the kingdom at the 2nd resurrection Rev 20. On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, The falling away was between the writing of this letter and the 70 AD desolation. On 4/7/2023 at 3:26 PM, truth7t7 said: and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; In 70 AD it was revealed that Caesar was the Antichrist. But the spirit of the Antichrist and the Roman beast still exist to this present day. The iron of the Dan 2 statue is continual. As soon as people got to read the Bible, they figured out that Rome was the beast for the same reasons. That is why Rome hid the scriptures as much as possible. Even Martin Luther wrote that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist. So you see that the Antichrist already was, was not, yet is a Roman beast. He has already been thrown into the abyss, been there for a symbolic 1000 years, and ascended to deceive the kings of the east and Magog into surrounding restored Jerusalem. ---- We are seeing the Magog/Armageddon war, for sure, absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Ok, I see we are at a seeming impasse. Conflict is not an impasse, it's OK to disagree, it helps us find the truth. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Let’s consider only one example of the Scriptures. Just one. Ok, but then the symbolism in Rev 20, The dragon. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Ps. 90:10 is a fair example. I did study about this chapter. The best explination that I found was the Matthew Henry commentary. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: “The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow: for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.” This psalm is by Moses v 1. It seems to have been written between the time when Israel rejected the promised land and were then turned away to wander for 40 years, until everyone over 20 ish died except for Joshua and Caleb. So everyone who was an adult, 30 years old, would die before the 40 years were up. That would be 30 years old when they left Egypt, plus 40 years in the desert, would mean their death by 70, the days of our years is 70, literally, but not specifically, as there were many different ages of people, so generally speaking. If you were 40 yrs old when you left Egypt, you might make 80, but that was not likely. So Moses is talking about literal years and the literal living people children of Israel, in a general sense, in the desert, at that time period. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Some who use the allegorical method of interpretation would say there are symbols, types, and shadows in this psalm. I suppose they would. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Literal interpretation would say this is a psalm about the brevity of life using some figures of speech but meaning contained within the plain words. Sounds good to me. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: For instance, “days of our years” might be interpreted by allegory as a longer period of time than simply days. Every year has days. So how many days of your years do you have left to live? On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: Literalists would say, day means day, or at best series of days, but nevertheless a lifetime of days. Not any symbolism at all. Literal. I agree. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: ”Threescore and ten”, or 70 years might mean “something perfect” to the allegorist since seven is the number of perfection. Or 7 could mean complete, as the complete 7 trumpets, that is, the 7 trumpets cannot be complete until the 7th trumpet is sounded. In this case the idea might be that and adult, 30 years old, with the wandering in the wilderness of 40 years, would complete his lifetime of 70 years. But I would disagree with that assessment and say that the years are literal years in this context with little or no symbolism in the numbers. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: The literalist would say it means 70 years. I would agree. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: “Reason of strength” might mean someone who is saved to the allegorist since Phil. 4:13 says “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me”. The literalist would say it means healthy and strong in latter years. No hidden meaning. “Fourscore years” or 80 years might mean extended life in salvation beyond 70 mortal years to the allegorical interpretation. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: The literalist would say 80 means 80. Years means years. Not symbolic. Context is everything. There are literal numbers in literal passages and symbolic numbers in symbolic passages. Context is everything. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: “Yet is their strength labour and sorrow” might mean persecution and trials for believers to the allegorist. To the literalist this means normal hardship at an old age. This could be applied to either Christian or unbelievers. On 4/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, BibleWords said: ”For it is soon cut off, and we fly away” might mean the rapture of believers to an allegorist. To some this is certainly what they believe. Just because the words “we fly away” are used they declare that this is a picture of the rapture. Of course it is not. The literalist would say that this is describing the brevity of life, then death. “We fly away” obviously describes the spirit of man going back to God who gave it. Ecc. 12:7 This psalm is about the brevity of life. There is not a double meaning here. The plain sense of Scripture here is a literal meaning. When we spiritualize Scripture we can come up with all sorts of meaning that was never meant. OK so now, is the dragon in Rev 20:2 literally a dinosaur thing or is the dragon a symbol of something else? Rev 12 says that the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns. Dinosaur thing or are these symbolic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2023 1 hour ago, abcdef said: Yes, the war of Armageddon IS going on right now. "False" The Man Of Sin hasn't been revealed to the world as scripture teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 No mark of The Beast or image worship has/is taken place yet as seen in Revelation Chapter 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, abcdef said: Yes, the war of Armageddon IS going on right now. You might agree, a little, with the observation that the war that is going on right now between Israel and Iran with it's allies, is strikingly similar, or exactly like the circumstances as shown in the 6th vial/trumpet and the Rev 20 Magog war. You believe that these passages are parallel? I do also. Just observing the similarities makes it obvious. Are we in the Magog/kings of the east final war of Armageddon right now? The events and timelines match and the present circumstances match. But then some one will say, "But this hasn't happened yet", or, "That hasn't happened yet", well almost all of it has past. To understand how it has past, not only must someone leave the pretrib 7/1000 yr timeline, one must also leave behind many of the definitions of the entities and events. There is an Antichrist, there are many Antichrists. He is the king of a nation. A Roman nation that spans centuries, and not just a few years. He is the 4th beast of Dan 7, and the iron in the Dan 2 statue, 63 BC-1967. The man of sin is revealed to those who study the scriptures. The church/Pentecost kingdom of Israel, knew who the Antichrist was after the temple and Jerusalem fell in 70 AD. The statue in Dan 2 shows the iron goes from the legs and continues to he end of the toes, Rome beginning in 63 BC and ending in 1967 when Jerusalem was restored. The same as the Dan 7, 4th beast. -- Brother understand this, that the Bible was in the Latin language for centuries and out of the view of the population, even until our last few centuries. It remained hidden and a secret by the RCC. People were killed for translating it into German and other languages. It was death or prison to be caught with scripture in most of Europe. All because the Bishop of Rome and the RCC wanted complete control, over the truth. Once the Bible was translated, people rejected the RCC for their opposition to the what the Bible said. Millions died. The Bishop of Rome and the RCC have been the Antichrists for 2000 years, attacking the children of Israel and the true church/kingdom for centuries. You didn't think that the Bishop of Rome and the RCC are passive and "lamb like" did you? Rev 13:11. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV Paul and the other apostles thought that they might still be alive when Jesus came at the resur/rapt. It turns out that John was the only one left of that generation to see everything happen. Such as the 70 AD destruction and the great tribulation scattering. v 2 Which Day of the Lord is this that Paul is speaking about? The day of the Lord against Jerusalem that was in 70 AD, when the temple and Jerusalem were made desolate? Only, say, 20 years ish away? Or, the final day of the Lord against the world that will end in fire? --- The revelation of Jesus as God's son has come over 1000's of years in different stages. It was revealed to Israel when the prophecies of Jesus came true about the destruction of Jerusalem. He will be revealed completely when He comes for the kingdom at the 2nd resurrection Rev 20. The falling away was between the writing of this letter and the 70 AD desolation. In 70 AD it was revealed that Caesar was the Antichrist. But the spirit of the Antichrist and the Roman beast still exist to this present day. The iron of the Dan 2 statue is continual. As soon as people got to read the Bible, they figured out that Rome was the beast for the same reasons. That is why Rome hid the scriptures as much as possible. Even Martin Luther wrote that the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist. So you see that the Antichrist already was, was not, yet is a Roman beast. He has already been thrown into the abyss, been there for a symbolic 1000 years, and ascended to deceive the kings of the east and Magog into surrounding restored Jerusalem. ---- We are seeing the Magog/Armageddon war, for sure, absolutely. "Once again, I Strongly Disagree" The battle of Armageddon hasn't started as you claim, the four items below "MUST" take place first Jesus Is The Lord 1.) The (Man Of Sin) Must Be Revealed To The Church/World on Earth, proclaiming to be (God-Messiah) returned, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 2. The false prophet must call fire from heaven in false miracles, deceiving "the world" into taking the mark and image worship, Revelation 13:13-15, 19:20 3.) The (Two Witnesses) Prophets returned must be seen bringing literal plagues, upon this literal world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt Revelation 11:3-15, Revelation 16:1-11 4.) Gentile armies must surround and take Jerusalem for 42 months, fulfilling the time of the Gentiles Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:20 Edited April 9, 2023 by truth7t7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 12 hours ago, truth7t7 said: "False" The Man Of Sin hasn't been revealed to the world as scripture teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Brother, see that there are several different views to be considered. A modern view, a view from the authors position, and view points from different times of history. When the Rev was written in 96 AD ish, the beast nation was already ruling Rev 17:10, "and one is". The 6th head of the beast was in power at that time. The other 5 heads were in power before that. The 7 heads are 7 mountains that all surround ONE city. If the 6th head is Rome, then all the heads are Rome, because they all surround one city. That means that the beast existed before 96 AD, at the time of 96 AD, and after 96 AD. Placing the Rev 17 timeline in parallel with the Dan 2 timeline is showing that the iron nation was before 96 AD, in power in 96 AD and continues until the toes end, continual. The Rev 17 seven heads of the beast are kings and kings have kingdoms. The 8th head, which is also the little horn of Dan 7, also is a horn, a king with a kingdom, different from the other horns (Dan 7), but one of the 7 heads (Rev 17), an 8th head that lasts to perdition (Rev 17), Perdition- Rev 20:10-15. So if the little horn of Dan 7 is the Antichrist, a king with a kingdom, and is a remnant of the Roman Empire 4th beast, And the 8th head of Rev 17 is a remnant of the Roman Empire 7 heads beast, that "is" in 96 AD, It means that the Antichrist must be Roman. Rome is the only possible answer. ---- It is shown in Matt 24, Mk 13, and Lk 21, that the Antichrist destroys Jerusalem and the temple with armies. Did a Roman (iron/4th beast) Titus destroy the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD? Obviously he did, history proves it. Will a Roman (iron/4th beast), again, surround Jerusalem, destroy a temple, and desolate the city? NO. He will get the kings of the east and Magog to do it, (6th trumpet/vial, Rev 20). Happening now. ----- 12 hours ago, truth7t7 said: No mark of The Beast or image worship has/is taken place yet as seen in Revelation Chapter 13 Yes it has. The children of Israel have been under the mark of the Roman beast since 63 BC when Rome invaded and Caesar worship, and his image worship began. It is still practiced every ash Wednesday. The mark of Rome, Caesar, and the Bishop of Rome and will last to Perdition. It's not the planet, it is the known world of Israel in 96 AD and continual until Jerusalem was restored in 1967. Dan 2 and Dan 7 are centered on the children of Israel. The Rev is centered on the children of Israel. The Rev is not centered on the gentiles or the gentile side of the gospel kingdom of Israel. It is about the children of Israel, both believing and unbelieving. They attacked by the gentile nations, especially Rome, first Caesar and then the image Caesar the Bishop of Rome. ----- Do you do know why I call him the Bishop of Rome, instead of Pope? Because "Pope" is the Italian word for father. So whenever someone calls him the Pope, they are saying the father. You do know that unless you submit to the Bishop of Rome and the RCC, that you are not a Christian, they say. Is the Bishop of Rome the "head" of the church/gospel kingdom of Israel? Will you submit to him, call him holy father? Ad Take his mark on Ash Wednesday? Or, is the Bishop of Rome and the RCC the image of Caesar worship and the Roman Empire against the children of Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 9, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,152 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 1,093 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, abcdef said: Yes it has. The children of Israel have been under the mark of the Roman beast since 63 BC when Rome invaded and Caesar worship, and his image worship began. And they can still buy and sell. And what is even more amazing, is that you can still buy and sell without having this Mark.. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleWords Posted April 10, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 233 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 140 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2023 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/20/1957 Share Posted April 10, 2023 20 hours ago, abcdef said: Conflict is not an impasse, it's OK to disagree, it helps us find the truth. Ok, but then the symbolism in Rev 20, The dragon. I did study about this chapter. The best explination that I found was the Matthew Henry commentary. This psalm is by Moses v 1. It seems to have been written between the time when Israel rejected the promised land and were then turned away to wander for 40 years, until everyone over 20 ish died except for Joshua and Caleb. So everyone who was an adult, 30 years old, would die before the 40 years were up. That would be 30 years old when they left Egypt, plus 40 years in the desert, would mean their death by 70, the days of our years is 70, literally, but not specifically, as there were many different ages of people, so generally speaking. If you were 40 yrs old when you left Egypt, you might make 80, but that was not likely. So Moses is talking about literal years and the literal living people children of Israel, in a general sense, in the desert, at that time period. I suppose they would. Sounds good to me. Every year has days. So how many days of your years do you have left to live? I agree. Or 7 could mean complete, as the complete 7 trumpets, that is, the 7 trumpets cannot be complete until the 7th trumpet is sounded. In this case the idea might be that and adult, 30 years old, with the wandering in the wilderness of 40 years, would complete his lifetime of 70 years. But I would disagree with that assessment and say that the years are literal years in this context with little or no symbolism in the numbers. I would agree. Context is everything. There are literal numbers in literal passages and symbolic numbers in symbolic passages. Context is everything. OK so now, is the dragon in Rev 20:2 literally a dinosaur thing or is the dragon a symbol of something else? Rev 12 says that the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns. Dinosaur thing or are these symbolic? You asked if the dragon in Rev 20:2 is “dinosaur thing” or symbol of something else”. Neither. This is literally the devil. Not a symbol. Not a dinosaur. It is not a stretch to believe that satan appears as a dragon. That would not be symbolic. He is not symbolic of himself. We know that this is satan himself. This verse clearly says so. It says that this is the devil. Literally. You asked the same thing about Rev. 12. Same answer. Literal the devil himself, not symbolic. Read verse 9. He is referred to here as the great dragon, that ancient serpent called the devil, and Satan. This is literally about the devil. Both of these passages are literal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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