1000 years like a day

[NConly]

7 hours ago, MichaelSnow said:

I guess they deleted my response as it had a video link. All who care about this topic ought to watch John Lennox: "Seven Days That Divide the World" on Youtube. It is his presentation at Eric Metaxas' Socrates in the City forum. He starts at the 10 min mark after all the intro.

Too many Christians who talk about this topic fall into the group  which Augustine warned cause stumbling blocks to the Gospel in his commentary on Genesis. https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2020/03/31/augustine-on-genesis/

I saw the video you posted. I did like your video. They may have moved it, videos can only be uploaded to "videos" listed on the home page. Under "videos" Neighbor  posted a very good video by Gerald Schroeder. It has the answer I was looking for.  I would suggest anyone to watch it. Thanks.

[Waggles]

6 hours ago, NConly said:

It has the answer I was looking for.

And the answer is ... ??

[NConly]

8 hours ago, Waggles said:

And the answer is ... ??

In my last post I wrote 6 sentences. The answer to the question here is in sentence 5. thanks

 

[Roymond]

On 4/12/2023 at 11:37 AM, FJK said:

So were the laws of physics the same then as they are now?

If they were, that would make the Universe somewhat over 13 billion years old.

That could make the first day, or any of the days of creation for that matter, very, very long.

And if they weren't, there's no timeline in relation to ours to make any kind of comparison with and no sense trying to understand that day vs thousand years thing in other than being that many distinct steps taken in the creation.

So how important is it to know, how important is this?

The only importance is that by throwing about unfounded theories people are led astray, the biggest example being how many young people abandon the faith because they were taught that the Bible teaches science and when they find out that this so-called science is wrong then they follow the logic their pastors and parents gave them and decide the entire Bible is wrong.

The first Genesis Creation account is not about how God made the Earth with the exception of the repeated lesson that He commands and it happens, it's about the fact THAT God created the heavens and the Earth.  It is at least two kinds of literature at once, one that uses poetic imagery and such to portray a great achievement of a great king, the other to tell how a temple was prepared for the deity who came to "rest" in it.

By trying to force it to fit modern science through an effort to make modern science fit it, we draw attention from where it belongs:  our Lord Jesus Christ.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

2 hours ago, Roymond said:

the biggest example being how many young people abandon the faith because they were taught that the Bible teaches science and when they find out that this so-called science is wrong then they follow the logic their pastors and parents gave them and decide the entire Bible is wrong

Actually I would say that most pastors and parents don't give young people a proper education in creationism. Then they get indoctrinated in the false theory of evolution and believe it. Churches should have creationism classes that teach people correct science, not the fables they are learning in schools. 

[FJK]

57 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Churches should have creationism classes that teach people correct science, not the fables they are learning in schools. 

Should Christians be raising their children in those schools in the first place?

[RV_Wizard]

3 hours ago, Roymond said:

The only importance is that by throwing about unfounded theories people are led astray, the biggest example being how many young people abandon the faith because they were taught that the Bible teaches science and when they find out that this so-called science is wrong then they follow the logic their pastors and parents gave them and decide the entire Bible is wrong.

The problem is that some people have an incorrect perception that science is the uncovering of truth, when science is actually the study of the physical world around us.  It cannot account for the supernatural.  The creation was a supernatural event, therefore it cannot be explained scientifically.  An easy test of this is the resurrection of Christ.  We know scientifically that this is impossible, yet it's the basis of Christianity.  The Bible is NOT a science book, though there are many things mentioned that we only learned of many years later.

If we exclude Genesis and look to the 10 commandments which were carved into a stone tablet by God Himself, God personally said He created the universe in six days and rested on the seventh.  Do you believe him?  There is no poetry in Exodus 20:11.  God is very clearly a creationist.

[JohnD]

On 4/3/2023 at 7:21 PM, NConly said:

2nd Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

I have some questions about this verse. I am hoping to find answers here.

Q1---- The years to day ratio implies aging at a slower rate than humans, Can this be true if God is eternal?

Q2---- Why pick  1 thousand?

Then the 6 day creation that tells us man lives six thousand years is using this verse.

And at the same time refuse to use this verse on the creation of earth. Stick with 6 24 hour days w/o sun or moon.

The light that appeared when God said "let there be light" was not the light of sun and moon they did not come along til day 4. Is it possible the first four days were 1000 yrs long the the next day were 24 hour days.

A good question.

First off, the thousand year day is a prophetic time table. There are several that the LORD established... 

1. the seven-day week

2. the 49 / 50 years Jubilee

3. the week of years (the Hebrew decade)

4. the lunar months

5. the 360 day year

etc.

In creation week, though the sun and moon and stars are not mentioned as being created until the 4th day, this may be a middle eastern method of accounting: focusing on that which is most important to us folks down here on the planet with an oblique reference to the cosmos (which is important but not as much as what we experience more directly here). The recap in Genesis 2 is an even better example of this method story telling / account giving / pass down.

I often refer to this method in teaching Revelation especially to Western people who think more linearly than those in the middle east did. Revelation as the rest of the New Testament books of the Bible were written in Westernized Greek but expressing middle eastern Hebrew thinking. Repeating and referring back to the major point (in my mind I think of looping a hose or a length of rope over a hanging peg going back to the top most point over and over).

"Now is the time of salvation" referring back to the cross in a future prophecy long after the cross of Christ... that sort of thing.

One might interpret the days of creation as 6 thousand year - days if there were not references to evening and morning...

which incidentally is why the official Hebrew day begins at sunset (another time table). 

Could those be references refer to 42 year intervals (1000 ÷ 24 = 41.66667)?

There was (42 year) evening and (42 year) morning: the first day...

Or is it far more likely the LORD was establishing in creation (especially here on earth) the rhythmic sequences all life depends on? If the earth   had two suns or one side of the earth faced the sun and the other away from the sun (for examples) life could not exist. And the sequences of the plant life and animal life God created could not wait 42 year long hours to develop. 

I suggest you consult the Institute for Creation Research (icr.org) for more scientific explanations of taking things like creation week far more literally than the old universe / old earth system preaches. There you will also find how dishonest and concocted their so-called reliable dating methods are frauds. For example,  how the strata layers are dated by the fossils found in them and the fossils are dated by the strata layers they are found in... and even the dating methods (carbon 14 etc) depend on actual dates going back 5,000 (roughly the time of the Noachian flood) and how strictly mathematical conjecture is used  beyond that point.  The late A.E. Wilder-Smith (holder of 3 earned PhD's and former atheist) spoke of this as calibration. He likened it to the 7 year old asking his parents how tall he was 10 years ago.

Evolutionists etc. claim science proves the old earth old universe, but in fact the definition of science itself refutes their premise:

"the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained."

Which means if we cannot repeat creation for purposes of experimentation and observation, or we were not there at the time, science cannot prove creation or evolution.

And we have instead an eyewitness account in the Bible the Word of the Creator God who expressed cosmic aspects about the universe around us long before mankind was in any position to even know what science is.

Job 26:7 (KJV)
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

All those thousands of years ago when Job was written, mankind had no concept of cosmology or that the earth itself wasn't the totality of the universe...

The Creator also tells the future before it happens in precise detail (like the Tyre causeway for example) establishing his divine nature and the legitimacy of his word and its claims. His account of creation is Eyewitness prima facie  evidence.

 

[NConly]

18 minutes ago, JohnD said:

A good question.

First off, the thousand year day is a prophetic time table. There are several that the LORD established... 

1. the seven-day week

2. the 49 / 50 years Jubilee

3. the week of years (the Hebrew decade)

4. the lunar months

5. the 360 day year

etc.

In creation week, though the sun and moon and stars are not mentioned as being created until the 4th day, this may be a middle eastern method of accounting: focusing on that which is most important to us folks down here on the planet with an oblique reference to the cosmos (which is important but not as much as what we experience more directly here). The recap in Genesis 2 is an even better example of this method story telling / account giving / pass down.

I often refer to this method in teaching Revelation especially to Western people who think more linearly than those in the middle east did. Revelation as the rest of the New Testament books of the Bible were written in Westernized Greek but expressing middle eastern Hebrew thinking. Repeating and referring back to the major point (in my mind I think of looping a hose or a length of rope over a hanging peg going back to the top most point over and over).

"Now is the time of salvation" referring back to the cross in a future prophecy long after the cross of Christ... that sort of thing.

One might interpret the days of creation as 6 thousand year - days if there were not references to evening and morning...

which incidentally is why the official Hebrew day begins at sunset (another time table). 

Could those be references refer to 42 year intervals (1000 ÷ 24 = 41.66667)?

There was (42 year) evening and (42 year) morning: the first day...

Or is it far more likely the LORD was establishing in creation (especially here on earth) the rhythmic sequences all life depends on? If the earth   had two suns or one side of the earth faced the sun and the other away from the sun (for examples) life could not exist. And the sequences of the plant life and animal life God created could not wait 42 year long hours to develop. 

I suggest you consult the Institute for Creation Research (icr.org) for more scientific explanations of taking things like creation week far more literally than the old universe / old earth system preaches. There you will also find how dishonest and concocted their so-called reliable dating methods are frauds. For example,  how the strata layers are dated by the fossils found in them and the fossils are dated by the strata layers they are found in... and even the dating methods (carbon 14 etc) depend on actual dates going back 5,000 (roughly the time of the Noachian flood) and how strictly mathematical conjecture is used  beyond that point.  The late A.E. Wilder-Smith (holder of 3 earned PhD's and former atheist) spoke of this as calibration. He likened it to the 7 year old asking his parents how tall he was 10 years ago.

Evolutionists etc. claim science proves the old earth old universe, but in fact the definition of science itself refutes their premise:

"the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained."

Which means if we cannot repeat creation for purposes of experimentation and observation, or we were not there at the time, science cannot prove creation or evolution.

And we have instead an eyewitness account in the Bible the Word of the Creator God who expressed cosmic aspects about the universe around us long before mankind was in any position to even know what science is.

Job 26:7 (KJV)
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

All those thousands of years ago when Job was written, mankind had no concept of cosmology or that the earth itself wasn't the totality of the universe...

The Creator also tells the future before it happens in precise detail (like the Tyre causeway for example) establishing his divine nature and the legitimacy of his word and its claims. His account of creation is Eyewitness prima facie  evidence.

 

Thanks for your reply. Im not set on the old earth version just had recently heard of some of the things that brought questions to mind. I will look at icr.org thanks

[JohnD]

2 minutes ago, NConly said:

Thanks for your reply. Im not set on the old earth version just had recently heard of some of the things that brought questions to mind. I will look at icr.org thanks

The scholars at ICR can go much deeper into the details than I can. I used to go to their library at Santee, California to study and read their literature and tour their museum. I lived about 5 miles away at the time. They've been relocated to Dallas for several years now.   If their Dallas museum is as good as their Santee museum was (picked up tons of display pamphlets etc) it is a well deserved trip to go there.

Just checked the website out for the first time in years. Dr. John Morris recently passed away... he headed up the search for Noah's ark (expeditions to Turkey several times) the son of founder Dr. Henry Morris and brother of Dr. Henry Morris Jr. The world's loss!

Try listening to Science, Scripture, and Salvation here