Are GODS ELECT truly those REJECTING Him today?

[Arial]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

EXCEPT THE BOOK OF REV ISN'T WRITTEN TO JEWISH but TO AND FOR CHRISTIANS, and so Jewish aren't given 10 day trials.  

The book of Rev is a letter. And it is written to specific churches in Asia, who were Christians but many were Jewish Christians. They were being persecuted and harrassed by both Jewish unbelievers and pagans, and false teachings were infiltrating the ranks. It was meant to encourage them to hold fast to the gospel, and warnings about things that should not be but were.

That many were Jewish believers is seen in the way in which Rev is composed. Using symbolism just as is seen in Daniel and Isaiah and other prophetic revelation writings (genre) in the OT. The recipients were familiar with the OT and I am sure understood what was being said when many, many things in Rev are direct references to these writings in the OT. Much better than we do. We do a lot of speculating over it.

John is instructed to write what was, what is, what is to come. Some of what is said was happening then, some had happened already, some would happen in the future from the time of the letters. Nevertheless, it is also written for all Christians of all time, not just for now.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Except for what I know about Israel. AND I know the last week is about the whole world or else the Gospel wouldn't have to go out to the whole world and the whole world wouldn't be deceived.  And if the Christians are in Israel or not, the PTRD says they WON'T BE HERE.  

That is one of the problems.  

Well,I just quoted verses showing christians in Israel when the second beast arrives in Israel.That is the beginning of the 42 months tribulation which takes place in Israel.

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

While the saints in Israel are being  persecuted throughout the towns of Israel,the christians in America and Europe will be complaining the price of gas is to high.

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Arial said:

The book of Rev is a letter. And it is written to specific churches in Asia, who were Christians but many were Jewish Christians. They were being persecuted and harrassed by both Jewish unbelievers and pagans, and false teachings were infiltrating the ranks. It was meant to encourage them to hold fast to the gospel, and warnings about things that should not be but were.

That many were Jewish believers is seen in the way in which Rev is composed. Using symbolism just as is seen in Daniel and Isaiah and other prophetic revelation writings (genre) in the OT. The recipients were familiar with the OT and I am sure understood what was being said when many, many things in Rev are direct references to these writings in the OT. Much better than we do. We do a lot of speculating over it.

John is instructed to write what was, what is, what is to come. Some of what is said was happening then, some had happened already, some would happen in the future from the time of the letters. Nevertheless, it is also written for all Christians of all time, not just for now.

 

The CHURCH CAN'T be PRE TRIB raptured, THE CLOSEST it could get to that is PRE GREAT TRIB,

and since that doesn't HAPPEN until Christ returns, and Christ doesn't return until AFTER the workings of Satan (IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN)

 WHY?
 

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matthew 24:29 KJV

"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light," Mark 13:24 KJV


After the workings of Satan.  AFTER you see the abomination of desolation, THEN COMES GREAT TRIB....not before.  

And what do we know about REGULAR TRIB?  

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 KJV


"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22 KJV


"And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;" Romans 5:3 KJV


"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?" Romans 8:35 KJV


"Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;" Romans 12:12 KJV



"Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." 2 Corinthians 1:4 KJV



"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;" 2 Thessalonians 1:6 KJV


"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:9 KJV



"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9 KJV



"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." Revelation 2:22 KJV

GREAT TRIBULATION COMES AFTER the tribulation of Satan, when there is NO MORE REPENTING possible.





who all comes out of GREAT TRIBULATION????  Is it ONLY those at the RETURN OF CHRIST?  OR IS IT ALL ISRAEL ALONG WITH

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

When are the TEARS wiped from our eyes?  IN THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.  

When will we hunger and thirst no more?  In the NHNE.

When shall the Lamb feed us and lead us unto living fountains of water?  NHNE


SO WHO ALL COMES OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION?   EVERYONE IN THE NHNE.  


Praise ye the Lord...

Unless there is something written to disprove this....
 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Well,I just quoted verses showing christians in Israel when the second beast arrives in Israel.That is the beginning of the 42 months tribulation which takes place in Israel.

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

While the saints in Israel are being  persecuted throughout the towns of Israel,the christians in America and Europe will be complaining the price of gas is to high.

 

AGAIN, THE WHOLE WORLD will be deceived.  THAT is why the GOSPEL has to go out to ALL THE WORLD.  And I am not saying there are no Christians in Israel, just saying according to the PTRD THEY WOULDN'T BE THERE after the rapture, if it was in fact pre trib. 



You do realize that Jesus died rose and RETURNED 2000 years ago, as the Son of Man, The Christ 
before the Word had SPREAD through all the towns of Israel, right? 

Or else PAULS ministry would have gone in a different way.  



Are you saying these verses ARE SPEAKING TO the FUTURE coming of the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS?  

[believeinHim]

I have tried to make friends with people who say they work on a farm, I am always rejected by these people. I am disabled and on disability and heavy sedatives, If I can't get my medication or disability, I am up a creek without a paddle. 

I do keep extras of my medications around, But to store up for 3 1/2 years would be almost impossible, And it would go slowly as I have to take most of the doses most days anyway.

I do not, at least I would like to think I won't be here for the tribulation, But that doesn't mean that I won't be here for a famine, or for a virus, or for any other kind of human atrocities and crimes against humanity...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am reliant on the government system for my medications. I mean, I can stock up on things like melatonin and Benadryl, But those don't really work for me on their own, And mixing those two together is suggested not. I do not suggest mixing those two together, In fact just don't do it. Loll. 

I could stock up on things like relaxium sleep, But I don't know if there is a counter indication with my other medications for thyroid. I could stock up on Brazil nuts, for my thyroid, But I don't know if that actually works. I am also on a feminine medication, no not that kind of feminine medication, But I am on a special medication for a feminine issue...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

What do people with severe illnesses, Who need their medications supposed to do ? Stop taking them ? Get psychotic and recycle through the system, In where they would probably force a chip on to you in the hospital ? I really don't know.

If there is an alternative to my illness and medications, Then I haven't found it yet. I would need to be a homeopathic doctor and know what to prescribe for myself, And from what I hear, That is not an option for me. My illness is too severe.

Howie Mandell has talked about Depression and Anxiety, and being on medications. I don't have depression, I have manic depression, And leanings towards mania, And when I am medicated, That's when the wheels start spinning and I start leaning towards the depressive side. Side note, Mania feels like nothing, And depression feels like everything. Side note,...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Side note, Mania feels like nothing, And depression feels like everything,...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Do you think God would leave His disabled, and more vulnerable children to the tribulation because they need more than just food and water ? Etc,...............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 

Edited May 1, 2023 by believeinHim

[Neighbor]

41 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You do realize that Jesus died rose and RETURNED 2000 years ago, as the Son of Man, The Christ 
before the Word had SPREAD through all the towns of Israel, right? 

Or else PAULS ministry would have gone in a different way.  

???

[Shilohsfoal]

41 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

AGAIN, THE WHOLE WORLD will be deceived.  THAT is why the GOSPEL has to go out to ALL THE WORLD.  And I am not saying there are no Christians in Israel, just saying according to the PTRD THEY WOULDN'T BE THERE after the rapture, if it was in fact pre trib. 



You do realize that Jesus died rose and RETURNED 2000 years ago, as the Son of Man, The Christ 
before the Word had SPREAD through all the towns of Israel, right? 

Or else PAULS ministry would have gone in a different way.  



Are you saying these verses ARE SPEAKING TO the FUTURE coming of the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS?  

So your saying that the apostles were delivered up before counsels and were betrayed by their relatives and put to death before Christ returned 2000 years ago?

Is that what your saying?

 

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

²¹ And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

²² And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

²³ But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

 

YOur saying all this took place 2000 years ago before Christ returned?

[Arial]

51 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

The CHURCH CAN'T be PRE TRIB raptured, THE CLOSEST it could get to that is PRE GREAT TRIB,

and since that doesn't HAPPEN until Christ returns, and Christ doesn't return until AFTER the workings of Satan (IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN)

 WHY?
 

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matthew 24:29 KJV

"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light," Mark 13:24 KJV


After the workings of Satan.  AFTER you see the abomination of desolation, THEN COMES GREAT TRIB....not before.  

And what do we know about REGULAR TRIB?  

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 KJV


"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22 KJV


"And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;" Romans 5:3 KJV


"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?" Romans 8:35 KJV


"Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;" Romans 12:12 KJV



"Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." 2 Corinthians 1:4 KJV



"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;" 2 Thessalonians 1:6 KJV


"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:9 KJV



"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9 KJV



"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." Revelation 2:22 KJV

GREAT TRIBULATION COMES AFTER the tribulation of Satan, when there is NO MORE REPENTING possible.





who all comes out of GREAT TRIBULATION????  Is it ONLY those at the RETURN OF CHRIST?  OR IS IT ALL ISRAEL ALONG WITH

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

When are the TEARS wiped from our eyes?  IN THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.  

When will we hunger and thirst no more?  In the NHNE.

When shall the Lamb feed us and lead us unto living fountains of water?  NHNE


SO WHO ALL COMES OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION?   EVERYONE IN THE NHNE.  


Praise ye the Lord...

Unless there is something written to disprove this....
 

I don't believe there will be either a pre or post trib rapture. I do not believe that this thing called the tribulation is a  seven year period or that the judgements are successive sets of judgments all happening in that seven year period. I do not believe the numbers used in Rev are literal numbers but are representative of things as they are often used that way in symbolic apocalyptic literature---which is what Rev. is.

I do not believe the thousand year reign is a literal thousand years but represents a long, unrevealed amount of time between the first and second coming of Christ. All the things seen in the judgments were, have, been, are, will be, played out in various ways and in varying degrees and places during that time. History shows they have been. I think they will get worse the closer we get to His second coming, especially after the devil is released with no restraints.

Here is what I believe about Christ reigning now, and the evil one in chains now. The chains do not say he can do nothing but it says he can't deceive the nations. Christ is reigning in and through His people now, as none can be removed from Christ and through them the gospel goes to all nations. When he is released from those chains, he will be able to deceive the nations and that is when the persecution of the Church will reach a level never before seen. There will likely be martyrs.

Best watch and pray and be ready to endure because though we do not face God's wrath we are not guaranteed to not suffer and even be killed. But if we die, yet we live in glory.

Something to study. There is much more to it than what I can say here. You will need help from those who have done that study from that view, to break the cycle of what you have been taught. What we have all been taught with never a look into other ways of interpreting that glorious book, as though there were none, and the view taught is absolute. Covenant theology is one place you see this amillennial/idealist view and on youtube you can find series on Revelation by Voddie Buchman and R.C. Sproul. They are very systematic and support what they say through the scriptures. You don't have to believe it, but a person does owe it to themselves to have a way to decide for themselves.

[DeighAnn]

13 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

???

Which part?  That He was crucified and was raised up from the dead, rose up into heaven then came back and walked the earth for a few weeks before He went back to heaven?  

And that is how they saw the Son of Man before the good news had made it through Israel?

[Arial]

4 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Which part?  That He was crucified and was raised up from the dead, rose up into heaven then came back and walked the earth for a few weeks before He went back to heaven?  

And that is how they saw the Son of Man before the good news had made it through Israel?

Where does it say Jesus returned after His ascension and walked the earth for a few weeks?