The tribulation saints

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

My goodness, do you not have any ability to mesh the scriptures together as God intended brother? I have give you Zech. 13:8-9 about 1000 times, do you have no recall ability at all?  Do you not read anything people post and just blindly reply?

Zech. 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Then in the very next verse we get the DOTL or God's Wrath.

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then in verse 3 Jesus shows up to defeat the Beast and his armies.

GET IT NOW? 1/3 = Those who repent, or 3.5-5 million Jews, they thus will FLEE Judea, they are "THE WOMAN" in Rev. 12 why is this so hard to put together? The main reason is you think you have all the answers but don't so, you refuse to listen to those who do.

So, 1/3 REPENT and Flee Judea that is THE WOMAN, and that means 2/3 of the End Times Jews do nor repent and will be cut-off or DIE, thus since the do not repent they CAN NOT have the Testimony of Jesus, thus the 1/3 who repent a flee are PROTECTED, thus they can't be the Remnant of Rev. 12:17, and the 2/3 do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus. Slow down, listen, THINK things through before you offer up an idea my brother. I just showed you why the Remnant CAN NOT be Jewish there, and can only be the Gentile Church. BUT....you think you know better, BUT I always add it all up.

And The Woman are those who REPENTS !!! Yikes !!!! What a no brainer that is !!

God only warns the Jews, the Two-witnesses are only sent to the Jews, if one reads Rev. 11 correctly he sees their parameters is that they only come to turn Israel back unto God, because Jesus has to rule via the Kingdom Age from Jerusalem, because God perished that and God can not lie.

 

Dude.The woman is not the one fleeing in zech 14.She leaves at the beginning of the tribulation 42onths prior.

Those who are fleeing Judea in zech 14 are fleeing from the abomination that causes desolation.They are fleeing to the mountains to hide in caves because they all got the mark of the beast.The woman flees into the wilderness before it is even given to anyone.She leaves soon as the two witnesses.esses arrive.Thats why she stays in the wilderness 1260 days.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Those who are fleeing Judea in zech 14 are fleeing from the abomination that causes desolation.They are fleeing to the mountains to hide in caves because they all got the mark of the beast.

Where in Zechariah 14 does it state people are fleeing, hiding in caves, and that they took the mark of the beast?

Zechariah 14:2KJV

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

[Shilohsfoal]

16 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Where in Zechariah 14 does it state people are fleeing, hiding in caves, and that they took the mark of the beast?

Zechariah 14:2KJV

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

It states in zech 14 that it is the day of the Lord.

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

 

the day of the Lord is when they flee to the mountains and hide in caves.

 

revelation 6

 

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

 

The woman flees into the wilderness before her seed is persecuted during the tribulation at the beginning of the time,times and a half.

Zech 14 takes place after the tribulation when God's wrath is poured out on those who persecuted the saints and worshiped the beast.

 

Mathew 24:20

Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

 

The woman fled before the time of wrath.42 months prior.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[truth7t7]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It states in zech 14 that it is the day of the Lord.

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

 

the day of the Lord is when they flee to the mountains and hide in caves.

 

revelation 6

 

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

 

The woman flees into the wilderness before her seed is persecuted during the tribulation at the beginning of the time,times and a half.

Zech 14 takes place after the tribulation when God's wrath is poured out on those who persecuted the saints and worshiped the beast.

 

Mathew 24:20

Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

 

The woman fled before the time of wrath.42 months prior.

Ok, I Agree With Your Explanation

Jesus Is The Lord

[BibleWords]

11 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe you will precede the dead in Christ.What makes you think you will be delivered 3.5 years before the resurrection of those who's names are written?

I don’t think I will “precede” the dead in Christ.

1Thess. 4:16-“the dead in Christ shall rise first”.  Of course.

The dead in Christ here are those who have died knowing Christ.  They will rise first, then we who are alive and remain will follow them immediately.

Both of these, the dead and then the alive following them, will happen at the pre-tribulation rapture.

This resurrection is at the rapture.

Try not to confuse the rapture and the  second coming. They are not the same.

[LiveWire]

12 hours ago, BibleWords said:

The first 14 verses of Matt. 24 are describing the church age.  Many pre-trib rapture people like myself disagree with me on this.  But there is nothing in those verses that would indicate anything but church age.

I see the rapture happening after verse 14 when the gospel is preached in the whole world.  I know that some think that the 144 thousand will preach here in verse 14 and this is tribulation.  I do not think so.

The first 14+ some Verses were Completed in 70 A.D.

Those Verses are only part of the Narrative now.

12 hours ago, BibleWords said:

When the rapture happens the world will go on under Antichrist for 3 1/2 years in peace and prosperity.

Which happens after Mid-Point, and why it's Pre-Wrath Rapture, not Pre-Trib.

We're Rapture'd before Mid-Point.

12 hours ago, BibleWords said:

Then at the mid trib the abomination of desolation will occur and Israel and many gentiles will realize that they have been deceived by Antichrist,  and have missed the rapture 3 1/2 years before.

That happened in 70 A.D.

12 hours ago, BibleWords said:

Then the Great Tribulation begins for 3 1/2 more years.

Verses 15-51 are the Great Tribulation.

Just Wow!

 

Just curious here, were you raised in the Church or came to God later on in life and been reading and formatting these idealism's from your own understanding?

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, BibleWords said:

I don’t think I will “precede” the dead in Christ.

1Thess. 4:16-“the dead in Christ shall rise first”.  Of course.

The dead in Christ here are those who have died knowing Christ.  They will rise first, then we who are alive and remain will follow them immediately.

Both of these, the dead and then the alive following them, will happen at the pre-tribulation rapture.

This resurrection is at the rapture.

Try not to confuse the rapture and the  second coming. They are not the same.

But according to scripture,those who's names are written are delivered during great tribulation.According to scripture,that is when the resurrection takes place.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

If you don't believe you will precede the dead in Christ who are raised in this verse then you will be here during the previous 42 months that the saints are persecuted in Daniel 11:33

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

If your not going to precede the resurrection which takes place in Daniel 12:1-2 ,then you will be here for Daniel 11:33-35.

[BibleWords]

40 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

But according to scripture,those who's names are written are delivered during great tribulation.According to scripture,that is when the resurrection takes place.

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

If you don't believe you will precede the dead in Christ who are raised in this verse then you will be here during the previous 42 months that the saints are persecuted in Daniel 11:33

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

If your not going to precede the resurrection which takes place in Daniel 12:1-2 ,then you will be here for Daniel 11:33-35.

 

This is not the rapture.

This is the resurrection at the end of the tribulation.

Not at all the same resurrection.

This resurrection mentions no shout, no trumpet, no rapture of the living, no dead in Christ rising first.

The Scriptures say “shall be delivered” but that does not mean rapture.  It instead means God will protect and they will be “delivered”.  God will not let them be overcome but  the rapture is not seen here.

[BibleWords]

2 hours ago, LiveWire said:

The first 14+ some Verses were Completed in 70 A.D.

Those Verses are only part of the Narrative now.

Which happens after Mid-Point, and why it's Pre-Wrath Rapture, not Pre-Trib.

We're Rapture'd before Mid-Point.

That happened in 70 A.D.

Just Wow!

 

Just curious here, were you raised in the Church or came to God later on in life and been reading and formatting these idealism's from your own understanding?

You are wrong on all counts.

Pre wrath is not at all in these verses.  No one in the writing of these verses ever heard of a pre wrath position or ever even alluded to it.

We are saved from the wrath to come, that is true, but not right before it is poured out.

Everything that happened in 70 ad was a type of what was to come in the last days.  The destruction of the temple in 70 ad comes no where close to the violence and destruction in the tribulation.

Since you asked, I was saved at 17, I was raised in the church, I had Christian parents, lived in a Christian home,  and was called to preach at 17 also.

I am now 65 years old, have been in the ministry 48 years and have pastored the same Baptist Church for the last 35 years in June.

I have preached, taught and studied the pre-trib rapture for all of this time.  This is not a new doctrine for me.

Pre wrath position rapture has never been Scriptural.  We are taken out before God’s wrath but at the beginning of the tribulation.

One more thing, pre-trib rapture was the doctrine of the first century church.  They never heard of your doctrine, and they certainly did not believe it.

[LiveWire]

1 hour ago, BibleWords said:

You are wrong on all counts.

Pre wrath is not at all in these verses.  No one in the writing of these verses ever heard of a pre wrath position or ever even alluded to it.

We are saved from the wrath to come, that is true, but not right before it is poured out.

Everything that happened in 70 ad was a type of what was to come in the last days.  The destruction of the temple in 70 ad comes no where close to the violence and destruction in the tribulation.

Since you asked, I was saved at 17, I was raised in the church, I had Christian parents, lived in a Christian home,  and was called to preach at 17 also.

I am now 65 years old, have been in the ministry 48 years and have pastored the same Baptist Church for the last 35 years in June.

I have preached, taught and studied the pre-trib rapture for all of this time.  This is not a new doctrine for me.

Pre wrath position rapture has never been Scriptural.  We are taken out before God’s wrath but at the beginning of the tribulation.

One more thing, pre-trib rapture was the doctrine of the first century church.  They never heard of your doctrine, and they certainly did not believe it.

The fact that everything from the Judeans hiding in the Mountains, to the Temple being thrown down brick by brick like Jesus explained and the Fact that DAILY SACRIFICE stopped happening, caused the "Abomination of Desolation" to happen in its Place.

 

No Sin Offering happening = Abomination of Desolation

 

 

I will just confuse you by explaining the facts here.   But, you are off the mark and badly.