context....CONtext.........CONTEXT

[Shilohsfoal]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:43 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

Hello Gang,

 I read through posts & listen to podcasts typically on the subject of ESCHATOLOGY (End Times).....this has been a fascination of mine since youth....(im 61)...

 I've ran through the gamut of positions...and find myself currently in the PRE-WRATH camp. somewhere between traditional and AMILLENNIAL . alongside of that I have recently questioned the common description/understanding of the 7th week......as I have watched and studied It occurred to me that nowhere in the NEW or OLD TESTAMENT was a 7 year period mentioned, save for the, the Original prophetic utterance through Jeremiah & repeated in Daniel.....

 All common positions, PRE - MID -PRE WRATH - POST , consider an end time event period of 7 years.......Yet the Bible when speaking to the close of humanity, speaks only of 3 & 1/2 years.

 I studied and learned directly under the author teachers, ROBERT VANKAMPEN, MARVIN ROSENTHAL, CHARLES COOPER, ETC...

through each of these teachers and their writings, there was a prominent teaching on how to understand scripture in general, pivotal prio to examining the subject of eschatology... this featured 2 primary tenets ...READ SCRIPTURE USING THE GRAMMATICAL RULE...NORMAL NATURAL CUSTOMARY SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING LANGUAGE......Which opened the word to me in a way I had not seen previously....

The second major understanding was CONTEXT...... TYPICALLY UNDERSTOOD AS THE SURROUNDING VERSES OR CHAPTER(S) NEAR the text in question, however Bob V, further maintained to investigate the whole of scripture on any given topic or study before drawing conclusions.

  using this primary understanding, I came to realize 7 years is not written in the eschatological pages of scripture.........but what of the prophetic decree of Jeremiah & Daniel.......?

 All positions divide the 7th year into 2 equal sections of 3.5 YRS, and have them running concurrent.......BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!  what if they are not supposed to be concurrent? what if there was a PARENTHETICAL GAP TO BRING INTO SALVATION THE GENTILES......most believe in a GAP   but is their understanding of the gap correct! In the clearest teaching  of end times THE OLIVET DISCOURSE, we see a designation of 2 primary distinctions , BEGINNING OF SORROWS & TRIBULATION PERIOD INCLUDING "GREAT TRIBULATION"...what of the 1st half or period.....is there a peace treaty or covenant to indicated it, is there some miraculous sign from heaven , how would christians know when it began? I know the NORMAL descriptive EARTHQUAKES ,DISEASE, FAMINE ETC... but those things arguably have been occurring since the fall of man in Eden.....

 What if the COMMA (,) was placed the wrong position a small JOT TITTLE causing the confusion....

SOMETHING TO PONDER!!!!!!

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!

 Clarence

Context,context ,context.

Please remember the earthquakes spoken of here take place when nation rises against nation and kingdom.against kingdom.

Mathew 24

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

 

These are not normal earthquakes by any standard.These earthquakes are man made and are accompanied by the heavens departing the earth like a scroll being rolled together.Nothing like this has taken place since eden except a few times.Once in Hiroshima.

The falling stars are not actually stars ya know.They are missiles that fall unto the earth when kingdom rises against kingdom.

And the abomination that causes desolation. That is exactly what it was invented to do .To "destroy and innihilate many".

 

This is a very good video of the abomination that causes desolation.Earthquake and all .

Watch closely and you may see the lake of fire in there somewhere as well.

 

Zech 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Diaste]

Greetings,

On 5/15/2023 at 6:43 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

 All positions divide the 7th year into 2 equal sections of 3.5 YRS, and have them running concurrent.......BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!  what if they are not supposed to be concurrent?

I haven't read anyone that says they are concurrent. They tend to remove the 1st half like it doesn't exist or is somehow 2000 years long, but I don't see the concurrence.

On 5/15/2023 at 6:43 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

 

what if there was a PARENTHETICAL GAP TO BRING INTO SALVATION THE GENTILES......most believe in a GAP   but is their understanding of the gap correct!

I can make a case for two halves of 42 months, from Revelation, which are successive.

On 5/15/2023 at 6:43 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

 

In the clearest teaching  of end times THE OLIVET DISCOURSE, we see a designation of 2 primary distinctions , BEGINNING OF SORROWS & TRIBULATION PERIOD INCLUDING "GREAT TRIBULATION"...what of the 1st half or period.....is there a peace treaty or covenant to indicated it, is there some miraculous sign from heaven , how would christians know when it began?

In Dan 9 we see an existing covenant confirmed. It's not a new one. It's some agreement already in place that some power is determined to enforce or ensure due consideration. That would be the beginning of the last week. 

On 5/15/2023 at 6:43 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

I know the NORMAL descriptive EARTHQUAKES ,DISEASE, FAMINE ETC... but those things arguably have been occurring since the fall of man in Eden.....

I agree, the natural calamities are not a sign of the beginning of the week.

[Shilohsfoal]

On 5/15/2023 at 12:22 PM, BibleWords said:

We are protected from the wrath and judgement by the grace of Christ, that is correct.

But God uses the rapture as the means to get us out of earth before His wrath comes.  Of course He could leave us here, we would still be saved by grace even when we are killed for His name. Salvation would not be a problem.

But Jesus did not choose to send His Bride through the time of Jacob’s trouble.  
John 14–Jesus promised to come and get His bride and take her to the Father’s house.

The Father’s house is not on the earth in the middle of horrific conditions.

In the verses above quoted (Matt. 24) the flood came and took away the sinners in judgement.  The ark took away the righteous from judgement.

The Bible clearly teaches the pre-trib rapture.

The bride of Christ is never told that she will witness God’s wrath.

 

The ark never left the earth nor did Noah and his family.They were all left on the earth.

They literally watched the wrath of God cleanse the earth while they were saved without leaving the earth.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

Zech 14 shows the wrath of God consuming people ,yet those who are saved recieve rain.Those who recieve rain are not consumed in the fire.They are not taken away from the earth yet they are not consumed in the fire.

No reason to believe in a rapture if you've received rain.Something tells me that the people who believe in the rapture have not received rain and therefore don't understand it.

 

[BibleWords]

33 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Zech 14 shows the wrath of God consuming people ,yet those who are saved recieve rain.Those who recieve rain are not consumed in the fire.They are not taken away from the earth yet they are not consumed in the fire.

No reason to believe in a rapture if you've received rain.Something tells me that the people who believe in the rapture have not received rain and therefore don't understand it.

 

Believe what you want.

Jesus promised His followers the rapture.

Anyone not believing in it doesn’t make it any less so.

In Christ

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, BibleWords said:

Believe what you want.

Jesus promised His followers the rapture.

Anyone not believing in it doesn’t make it any less so.

In Christ

No,Jesus did not promise a rapture.

A rapture is exactly what Jesus didn't want.

 

John 17:15

My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

 

The problem is you don't think God is able to protect them.

[Shilohsfoal]

Like the wheat and the weeds.Let both grow together untill the harvest ,then the weeds are gathered first and burned.After the weeds are burned,the wheat is gathered in the barn.

[farouk]

2 hours ago, BibleWords said:

Believe what you want.

Jesus promised His followers the rapture.

Anyone not believing in it doesn’t make it any less so.

In Christ

@BibleWords I do think the Who? aspect as well as the What? aspect is very worth considering; as in, Who does the rapture involve? according to the various passage contexts. This does clarify it well, imho.

[farouk]

On 5/15/2023 at 4:34 PM, BibleWords said:

Just one example you brought up.

The millennial reign.

Rev. 20 repeats several times that there will be a 1000 year reign.  This is not speculation as it is right there in the Bible.

But I know, you spiritualize that part.  You do not believe that is literal either.  Literal interpretation verses spiritualizing.

One more thing.  When the text of Scripture is spiritualized you can make it mean or not mean anything you want.

I’ll stick with the literal Word of God.

@BibleWords I know some ppl say that Psalm 50.10 supposedly suggests that the millennium is not literal:

"For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

But to stretch this figure of speech about a thousand hills is really a big stretch, imho.

[BibleWords]

17 minutes ago, farouk said:

@BibleWords I know some ppl say that Psalm 50.10 supposedly suggests that the millennium is not literal:

"For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

But to stretch this figure of speech about a thousand hills is really a big stretch, imho.

Huge stretch for this to say anything concerning the millennial reign.

Normal interpretation would suggest that this is telling us that God owns it all.  He is not dependent on man at all.  If anything, we see God’s all-sufficient power in this claim.