Doctrine vs. Theology: What is the Difference?

[Arial]

21 minutes ago, LiveWire said:

Doctrines, are OPINIONS, based off how one can twist a Verse and Meaning, like John Calvin did with TULIP.

 

Theology, is pure sound Bible, proved and approved and aligned perfectly with God's Holy Word.

Many consider their opinions to be sound doctrine. It is pretty much the nature of the beast. But on what do you base the statement you gave of Calvin and TULIP? Might it be your opinion of what it teaches, and that based on the twisting of a verse and meaning to be what you most like?

Before one makes such a statement it would be wise to have something besides their opinion as a support. For instance one could do a study (wouldn't have to be extensive given all the information at our fingertips, but the deeper the better informed one is, of the history of the Reformation, why and what it was, what it did for Christ's church that had languished in darkness for years of the dark ages and the tyranny and blasphemy of the Roman church. As well as a study of the fire and spirit of the reformers.

People make such casual unmerrited remarks  not knowing of what they speak.

[LiveWire]

29 minutes ago, Alive said:

Everything else aside, Calvin had nothing to do with TULIP. That was formulated later by others.

I will be the first to admit, poor John Calvin, gets faulted, for way more than he actually deserves.  And as Believers, I am wrong in doing so myself.  But unfortunately, for Calvin, his planted Seeds, sprouted, and produced equally both wheat and tares.   And then there's the group, Whares, between the Wheat and Tares, that work universally among all of Calvin's followers.

[LiveWire]

33 minutes ago, Arial said:

Many consider their opinions to be sound doctrine. It is pretty much the nature of the beast. But on what do you base the statement you gave of Calvin and TULIP? Might it be your opinion of what it teaches, and that based on the twisting of a verse and meaning to be what you most like?

Before one makes such a statement it would be wise to have something besides their opinion as a support. For instance one could do a study (wouldn't have to be extensive given all the information at our fingertips, but the deeper the better informed one is, of the history of the Reformation, why and what it was, what it did for Christ's church that had languished in darkness for years of the dark ages and the tyranny and blasphemy of the Roman church. As well as a study of the fire and spirit of the reformers.

People make such casual unmerrited remarks  not knowing of what they speak.

God CHOOSES His Elect by predestination.

 

But, Paul, tells us WE, both Sinner and Saved, are equally Responsible for us humans to do the CHOOSING of God.

 

Romans 1:

 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. 

20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made.  So people are without excuse— 

21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.

 

This Verse here explains Scientists, world known Atheists, every HUMAN that looked up and gazed at the stars, flew and observed the landscape, traveled by water and discovered the wind patterns and natural disaster pathways, can walk mountain trails, tourist bike trails, hiking, so many things to get out there and SEE what God did at Creation and still here today.   And, it especially includes those who are Now Saved.

 

Paul said: "for God has shown it to them, So people are without excuse, for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God

[Alive]

10 minutes ago, LiveWire said:

I will be the first to admit, poor John Calvin, gets faulted, for way more than he actually deserves.  And as Believers, I am wrong in doing so myself.  But unfortunately, for Calvin, his planted Seeds, sprouted, and produced equally both wheat and tares.   And then there's the group, Whares, between the Wheat and Tares, that work universally among all of Calvin's followers.

I find it a better course to refrain from indicting a huge swath of my brethren over such things.

[Arial]

8 minutes ago, LiveWire said:

I will be the first to admit, poor John Calvin, gets faulted, for way more than he actually deserves.  And as Believers, I am wrong in doing so myself.  But unfortunately, for Calvin, his planted Seeds, sprouted, and produced equally both wheat and tares.   And then there's the group, Whares, between the Wheat and Tares, that work universally among all of Calvin's followers.

This isn't  a thread about Calvin. It isn't even about one theology over another, or one set of doctrines over against others. It is about the difference between theology and doctrine. Doctrines are often called theologies with no actual theology done by the person who fails to make the distinction. IOW they will come against one doctrine or another without weighing it against the theology behind it.

Also theology is given a definition of the word without saying what it is in Christianity. Much like defining grace as though the definition is what grace is and does. Or love.

The doctrines of historic traditional Protestantism are drawn from a systematic study of God and by extension Jesus, from both testaments. Not according to what we want God to be or what we think He is and does, but from His self revelation. It is done by a study of the whole counsel of God, being always consistent  with itself and integrated, never violating or changing what He says about Himself. By studying the Bible according to the genre in which book or passage is written. Without adding anything to His word or taking anything away. Some doctrines are opinions in matters where the Bible is not clear, such as the details of end times. That would  need to be consistent with He has not returned yet, He will return etc. but the details can be seen through a number of interpretive methods.

People can even disagree in the matter of predestination and free will as long as what must be believed for eternal life remains the same. However, even there one view is right according to God and one is not.

[Arial]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Everything else aside, Calvin had nothing to do with TULIP. That was formulated later by others.

Exactly.

[LiveWire]

Just now, Arial said:

This isn't  a thread about Calvin. It isn't even about one theology over another, or one set of doctrines over against others. It is about the difference between theology and doctrine. Doctrines are often called theologies with no actual theology done by the person who fails to make the distinction. IOW they will come against one doctrine or another without weighing it against the theology behind it.

Also theology is given a definition of the word without saying what it is in Christianity. Much like defining grace as though the definition is what grace is and does. Or love.

The doctrines of historic traditional Protestantism are drawn from a systematic study of God and by extension Jesus, from both testaments. Not according to what we want God to be or what we think He is and does, but from His self revelation. It is done by a study of the whole counsel of God, being always consistent  with itself and integrated, never violating or changing what He says about Himself. By studying the Bible according to the genre in which book or passage is written. Without adding anything to His word or taking anything away. Some doctrines are opinions in matters where the Bible is not clear, such as the details of end times. That would  need to be consistent with He has not returned yet, He will return etc. but the details can be seen through a number of interpretive methods.

People can even disagree in the matter of predestination and free will as long as what must be believed for eternal life remains the same. However, even there one view is right according to God and one is not.

 I know it is about all Doctrines/Theologies as a Whole.  I just threw, TULIP, in there to show how a Doctrine really is mostly opinion. Especially, when compared, to Romans 1:19-21.  I just made a statement that Doctrines are Opinions, is all, and unfortunately tossed TULIP to show Opinions.   

[LiveWire]

Doctrines, are OPINIONS, based off how one can twist a Verse and Meaning.

 

Theology, is pure sound Bible, proved and approved and aligned perfectly with God's Holy Word.

 

 

This is what I should have posted.  Then, if asked to elaborate, drop the TULIP idealism.  My Apology!

[Arial]

2 hours ago, LiveWire said:

 I know it is about all Doctrines/Theologies as a Whole.  I just threw, TULIP, in there to show how a Doctrine really is mostly opinion. Especially, when compared, to Romans 1:19-21.  I just made a statement that Doctrines are Opinions, is all, and unfortunately tossed TULIP to show Opinions.   

In some sense all doctrines are opinions but some opinions are also the truth as presented by God, through  study of God, and some are not. Some are opinions formed by opinions.

And of course all our doctrines and opinions should grow and adjust as we study God from the Bible, and grow in our knowledge of Him. But He must remain consistent as self revealed all the way through the scriptures as we form our doctrines.

We tend to form opinions of what an isolated scripture or scriptures is saying. What we think it is saying rather than what God is saying. And we often do not check the follow through of what we think it is saying----(an if this is so what does this mean about God in conclusion  sort of scenario) to see if it contradicts Him or anything else. And none of us do this all the time.

Learning about God is actually a labor intensive process of dedication that has no end, at least as long as we are here. And few have the time or the training or the example, or unfortunately the desire to engage in it. Me included. So I thank God for the resources of others who saw this as their life's work and highest pursuit. Often by lamplight, with pen and ink, and the Bible as their only resource. Thank God for the work of Jesus and the apostles and all the writers of the OT where we can go to double check what we read and hear. Few today if any, match the work and diligence and integrity in this work as the reformers, those who preceded them, and followed in their footsteps.

One has only to read the works of Luther, Calvin's  Institute of the Christian Religion, the writings and history of John Knox, and other writings of this era and for awhile after to see the difference in their methods of theology that produced the doctrines of the Protestant church---regardless of how one feels about some aspects of it.

 

[steve morrow]

WHAT  MUST  BE  BELIEVED  FOR  ETERNAL  LIFE ??? --NO  GUESS  WORK  NEEDED--

 

ACTS 3:22  for moses truly said unto your fathers a prophet shall   THE  LORD  YOUR  GOD   raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me  --HIM  SHALL  YOU  HEAR  IN  ALL  THINGS  WHATSOEVER  HE  SHALL  SAY  UNTO  YOU--

--3:23-- AND  IT  SHALL  COME  TO  PASS THAT  ---  EVERY  SOUL  WHICH  WILL  NOT  HEAR  THAT  PROPHET   ---   SHALL  BE  DESTROYED  FROM  AMONG  THE  PEOPLE  ---

 

MARK 8:35  for whosoever will save his life shall lose it but whosoever shall lose his life --for  MY  sake and the gospels  ---  the same shall save it--

COLOSSIANS 1:21  and  you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works yet now hath  HE  reconciled 

--1:22--in the body of  HIS  flesh through death to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in  HIS  sight 

 

--1:23--  IF  you continue --- in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the  --HOPE  OF  THE  GOSPEL--  which you have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven  --- whereof I paul am made a minister

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  CONSIDER  WHAT  I  SAY  AND  THE  LORD  GIVE  YOU  UNDERSTANDING  IN  ALL  THINGS

PROVERBS 21:16  the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding --shall remain in the congregation of the dead--

 

MATTHEW 7:28  and it came to pass when  JESUS  had ended these sayings the people were astonished AT  HIS  DOCTRINE 

 

PROVERBS 4:2  for I give you good doctrine forsake you not  MY  law 

TITUS 2:1  but speak thou the things which become sound doctrine 

 

MATTHEW 15:9  but in vain they do worship  ME  --teaching for doctrines the commandments of men--

 

LUKE 4:32  and they were astonished at  HIS  doctrine for  --HIS  WORD-- was with   --POWER--

ECCLESIASTES 8:4  where the word of a king is there is --POWER-- and who may say unto him what doest thou

PROVERBS 18:21  death and life are in the --POWER-- of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof 

 

1 CORINTHIANS 1:18  for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us that are saved --it is the  --POWER-- OF  GOD

 

1 TIMOTHY 6:3  if any man teach otherwise and consent not to --to wholesome words even the words of our  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST   ---   AND  TO  THE  --DOCTRINE  WHICH  IS  ACCORDING  TO  GODLINESS--

 

--6:4--    --HE  IS  PROUD  KNOWING  NOTHING -- but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envy strife railings evil surmisings

 

TITUS 1:1  paul a servant of  GOD  and an apostle of  --JESUS  CHRIST--  according to the faith of  GODS  elect and the acknowledging of the truth  --WHICH  IS  AFTER  GODLINESS--

 

2 THESSALONIANS  2:10  and with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them that  --PERISH--  because they received not the love of the truth  ---that they might be saved ---

 

2 TIMOTHY 4:2  preach the word be instant in season out of season --- exhort with all longsuffering and  --DOCTRINE--

 

 

2 JOHN 1:9  WHOSOEVER  TRANSGRESSETH  AND  ABIDETH  NOT  ---IN  THE  DOCTRINE  OF  CHRIST---  hath not  GOD  --- he that abideth in the  DOCTRINE  OF  CHRIST  he hath both  THE  FATHER  AND  THE  SON

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST