Why the focus on just a few people functioning (up front) in our gatherings?

[Vine Abider]

I've been to Sunday gatherings with a variety of groups over the past 50 years.  I always enjoy getting with believers, no matter how they meet - the Lord is in us! But I've noticed almost everyone follows the same basic format: An up front stage where the focus is on a few people functioning.

In these Sunday assemblies, there is usually a "worship team" who plays music and sings on a stage, and then someone comes up front to give a message. In a few gatherings I've been to, sometimes interaction may be encouraged - members are directed, perhaps during a short break, to speak with the person sitting next to them.

But one thing almost never happens in nearly all places I've visited: Members are not encouraged to speak or otherwise participate (other than singing along with the worship team).

However, I've also been to gatherings where the meetings were more open and saints were encouraged to function.  That is, they were free to call a particular song to sing, or standup (at their seat) and share something that the Lord is touching is their heart with, or ask for prayer, or maybe just to share about something or someone who encouraged them to pursue Christ.  And then, after the ministry message was given, some would then share how they related to it or were touched.

To me this kind of functioning of the body is incredibly encouraging, nourishing and greatly builds-up one another! 

I've heard some say that this only works in smaller gatherings, and while it's certainly true that a larger portion of members can share in smaller settings, I've also experienced this in much larger groups.

So two questions:

1. Where did we get this near universal format of focusing so much on a few people functioning up front?

2. Why is its practice so prevailing? 

[NConly]

I can not answer either question. I can only mention what I have seen in different churches.

In one church it appeared as if the hot, luke warm, cold for God had their own groups.

One church brought in a band to sing and in the foyer they had dvd's, shirts, books, jewelry for sale.

One church brought in Chiropractor Group two brothers in business and they gave any who had any pain a 5 minute free exam and quoted a 2 to 3 thousand dollar once a week program usually about 20 to 30 weeks and they could solve all the pain problems. about 30 signed up.

Another church had burn down only to find everything was in the preachers name not in the churches name, the church was never rebuilt and the preacher took the insurance and moved on. This one I only went to about 5 times before the fire; friends and family had been going for about 4 years.

 

[FJK]

How many meetings of any kind, various religions, Christian, political, educational, lectures, entertainment, etc. differ from this general format?  Leaders up front and followers in the ranks, the audience or body, that's seems to be the way people naturally organize things.

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, FJK said:

How many meetings of any kind, various religions, Christian, political, educational, lectures, entertainment, etc. differ from this general format?  Leaders up front and followers in the ranks, the audience or body, that's seems to be the way people naturally organize things.

Bingo! 

How does that line up with 1st Cor 14:26 - "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up."

[Vine Abider]

5 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

What if.. what if GOD has something to do with it

That's a big "what if!"  Is that your final answer? 

So where do you think the practice of a few up front came from?  Is it outlined in the new testament somewhere?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Vine Abider

[Mr. M]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:28 AM, Vine Abider said:

I've been to Sunday gatherings with a variety of groups over the past 50 years.  I always enjoy getting with believers, no matter how they meet - the Lord is in us! But I've noticed almost everyone follows the same basic format: An up front stage where the focus is on a few people functioning.

In these Sunday assemblies, there is usually a "worship team" who plays music and sings on a stage, and then someone comes up front to give a message. In a few gatherings I've been to, sometimes interaction may be encouraged - members are directed, perhaps during a short break, to speak with the person sitting next to them.

But one thing almost never happens in nearly all places I've visited: Members are not encouraged to speak or otherwise participate (other than singing along with the worship team).

However, I've also been to gatherings where the meetings were more open and saints were encouraged to function.  That is, they were free to call a particular song to sing, or standup (at their seat) and share something that the Lord is touching is their heart with, or ask for prayer, or maybe just to share about something or someone who encouraged them to pursue Christ.  And then, after the ministry message was given, some would then share how they related to it or were touched.

To me this kind of functioning of the body is incredibly encouraging, nourishing and greatly builds-up one another! 

I've heard some say that this only works in smaller gatherings, and while it's certainly true that a larger portion of members can share in smaller settings, I've also experienced this in much larger groups.

So two questions:

1. Where did we get this near universal format of focusing so much on a few people functioning up front?

2. Why is its practice so prevailing? 

That is how "the people" prefer things to be.

Exodus 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear;

but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”

Most people, though they claim to hear God "speak to their heart", do not actually want to hear Him speak to them directly, as this would demand obedience. But if it is the voice of another man they hear, they can question, debate, analyze and rationalize disobedience.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mr. M
cosmetic

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

That is how "the people" prefer things to be.

Exodus 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear;

but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”

Most people, though they claim to hear God "speak to their heart", do not

actually want to hear Him speak to them directly, as this would demand obedience.

But if it is the voice of another man they hear, they can question, debate, analyze

and rationalize disobedience.

That's interesting & insightful!

[Mr. M]

29 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

That's interesting & insightful!

Okay,  Then let's go deeper.!

Deuteronomy 5:

23 “So it was, when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, that you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders. 

24 And you said: ‘Surely the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives. 

25 Now therefore, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God anymore, then we shall die. 

26 For who is there of all flesh who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 

27 You go near and hear all that the Lord our God may say, and tell us all that the Lord our God says to you, and we will hear and do it.’

28 “Then the Lord heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me: ‘I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken. 

29 Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever! 

So now ask the obvious question, why does the Lord then say:

"They are right in all that they have spoken."

The answer begins to form in the very next verse, and spoken

even more bluntly by Joshua.

Joshua 24:

19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve the Lord, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. 

20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you, after He has done you good.”

The crux of the whole Grace vs Law discussion, right?

It is not to be so for us. We have been instructed:

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace,

that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

So what would happen if everyone in a group, let's say 12 men as 

was the case at Ephesus in Acts, and tarried long in the Lord's 

presence before a meeting?

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together,

each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation,

has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 

Church elders would be saying "Okay, okay, everybody pipe down,

you will all get a chance to share, just keep things orderly!"

Remember the old talk shows like Donahue and Oprah, when they would always

be out among the audience, holding the mic up to audience members so they could

share? Now that is going to church.

[Philologos]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So two questions:

1. Where did we get this near universal format of focusing so much on a few people functioning up front?

2. Why is its practice so prevailing? 

1. It started with Emperor Constantine- when he legalized Christianity, he gave them buildings modeled after pagan temples. The practices of the pagan temples and secular entertainment entered these now-public gatherings in public buildings. (95+% were unconverted in the public meetings) Most of the pagans of that time became followers of the Bible as spoken literature, a common form of entertainment, while others saw it as a new addition to their many gods. The buildings became identified by the same moniker as the entertainment venues, ‘Circe.’ It’s the same word from which we get “circus” and “church.” It was a cultural thing to be entertained by public speaking.

2. People don’t change.
 

[Vine Abider]

Yes, @Mr. M, we are thankful to be in the new covenant of grace!

So from what I see and have read, the primitive church (before around 300 AD) met in the much more open way of all were "able ministers" and "each one has."  But then the hierarchical order of the RCC came along and suppressed the normal and heathy functioning of the members of the body of Christ.

And it looks like even before Constantine things were headed in that direction - man just has the propensity to want to organize things (spelled "c-o-n-t-r-o-l") and to be in charge to keep everything in line, etc.  Before Constantine's promotion of Christianity, a hierarchy was already developing in the church along the Roman government's regional lines. And yes, there are some things in Paul's writings one can take note of, which outline certain functions (elders, teachers, etc.), but I don't think he ever meant to make paid officers, officials and other positions in the ekklesia from this!

But, as @FJK pointed out, it's just natural for man to do this kind of organizing and to put somebody in charge . . .  (however, there were groups of Christians all throughout the dark ages, and later, that still met in a more new testament way, without all the imposed hierarchy and adopting the traditions of men)

Fast forward 2000 years and protestant Christianity is still steeped in, and very comfortable with, a system it inherited from the RCC - which focuses on a few people doing much of the functioning, and which inherently suppresses the normal functioning of the rest of the body of Christ.