How may our women understand to be UNDER OBEDIENCE?

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, ISofSYRINX said:

This is one part of a list of guidelines for speaking aloud in an in-the-spirit (first century) assembly. We don’t have these types of “sharing revelations” gatherings in the 21st century. This instruction only applies to that type of meeting where everyone was a participant in speaking, if so inspired. It’s only about orderliness. 

Contextually, this only restricts married women from speaking up with public inquiry on spiritual matters with her husband present. (“…let them ask their husbands at home.”) Men, back then, were the leaders in scripture and spiritual matters; wives were not allowed to embarrass their husbands publicly as it would cause shame on them.

I witnessed an example of this- A triple-degreed preacher teaching a Sunday school class when his wife interrupts him, begins speaking for him, and telling the class what he really means. 
 

This same set of rules restricts  tongues “to keep silent in the congregation” if there’s no interpreter. And it encourages all to take turns speaking & sharing. 
 

(I am new to this site. I’ve had problems on other sites being stalked & bullied by people who were offended by me. If I offend you with a perspective on scripture, just thank me for sharing and I’ll get the message & move on. Please do not treat me like I need to be hanged and burned at the stake for heresy whenever I post. Thank you.)

 

The Apostle Peter would have us as women as daughters of sarah.

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2  While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3  Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4  But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Gen 18: 12  Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
 

[JimmyB]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:35 AM, Santoso said:

Beloved ones, we heard:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

How our women  may understand to be under obedience? 

So, according to you, women should keep silent in church.  Of course, that applies only to Corinthian society of the first century, when women were apparently making too much noise in church.

Do you really think that a woman who has earned a PhD in theology and is called to be a minister should be prohibited from fulfilling her calling because of a local 1st Century rule?

And then you contradict your argument by posting this truth...

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

How are our men to understand that God's calling is pure, true, and not subject to ancient society customs?

Edited July 5, 2023 by JimmyB

[Anne2]

48 minutes ago, Tony the student said:

I support your thinking. Again, I say simply, I do not lord it (my authority) over my wife. She is a Spiritual daughter just like Sarah. Sarah was and is a free woman. She agreed with Abraham because he was good, righteous, merciful, kind, strong, and courageous.

He obeyed God. Sarah obeyed Abraham because she loved and respected her husband. She also depended on Abraham to be her protector and voice in the world of men. Abraham had to earn her trust and respect. Once earned, Abraham did not betray her trust nor confidence nor did he leave her defenseless surrounded by men, except on those days when he feared for his life and called her sister so that others would not kill him to take Sarah from him. God has His Way of doing things. Amen.

Sarah clearly called Abraham to account concerning his Lordship.

Ge 16:5  And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
 

Hagars reaction would not be tolerated.

[ISofSYRINX]

1 hour ago, Tony the student said:

Unlike you, I cannot put Father God's teachings into a timeframe…

I’m certain you misunderstood something I wrote…

I don’t why you made this about me, but I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.

[Willa]

5 hours ago, JimmyB said:

So, according to you, women should keep silent in church.  Of course, that applies only to Corinthian society of the first century, when women were apparently making too much noise in church.

Do you really think that a woman who has earned a PhD in theology and is called to be a minister should be prohibited from fulfilling her calling because of a local 1st Century rule?

And then you contradict your argument by posting this truth...

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

How are our men to understand that God's calling is pure, true, and not subject to ancient society customs?

 

1Co 11:3  But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 11:4  Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,

1Co 11:5  but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

1 Co 11:10  That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

1Co 11:11  Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 1Co 11:12  for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.

It is clear that women did take part in the services to pray or prophesy.  We need not always be silent in Church.  However, we are to always be under the authority of our husbands.  We choose to adapt ourselves to him and come under his authority, guidance, protection and leadership.

 Our husband doesn't own us but we are united as a team with him being the leader.  We are equal in worth and come under his leadership when we choose to marry him.   

Some churches still operate under 1 Cor 11-14 guidelines.  Some still honor the Scriptures authority and don't discard them as being irrelevant.  That means the head pastor teaches and has authority over the congregation.  Women may serve as deaconesses or teach women and children.  Head covering is about humility and our willingness to not usurp authority.  We are hiding that which might cause us pride, hence rebellion.

[farouk]

5 hours ago, ISofSYRINX said:

I’m certain you misunderstood something I wrote…

I don’t why you made this about me, but I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.

Hi @Anne2 I think sometimes ppl can make sweeping assumptions.

[farouk]

9 minutes ago, Willa said:

 

1Co 11:3  But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

1Co 11:4  Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,

1Co 11:5  but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

1 Co 11:10  That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

1Co 11:11  Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 1Co 11:12  for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.

It is clear that women did take part in the services to pray or prophesy.  We need not always be silent in Church.  However, we are to always be under the authority of our husbands.  We choose to adapt ourselves to him and come under his authority, guidance, protection and leadership.

 Our husband doesn't own us but we are united as a team with him being the leader.  We are equal in worth and come under his leadership when we choose to marry him.   

Some churches still operate under 1 Cor 11-14 guidelines.  Some still honor the Scriptures authority and don't discard them as being irrelevant.  That means the head pastor teaches and has authority over the congregation.  Women may serve as deaconesses or teach women and children.  Head covering is about humility and our willingness to not usurp authority.  We are hiding that which might cause us pride, hence rebellion.

@Willa I am reminded of Philippians 2: the Lord Jesus 'thought it not robbery to be equal with God'. He is also the 'obedient (servant) unto death, even the death of the cross'.

There is not contradiction between being equal and being dependent.

[farouk]

On 7/5/2023 at 2:54 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

If it wasn't for my wife's prayers and those of her sisters, I might not have come to salvation thru Christ when I did.

Hi @Saved.One.by.Grace The example of Lois and Eunice in the case of Timothy, come to mind...

[farouk]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:13 PM, teddyv said:

Not necessarily.

However, as a different example, I have heard it suggested that the timing of the Messiah was such that the gospel message could be much more easily spread because of the excellent road network of the Roman Empire.

....and a similar circumstance was the wide use of Latin and Koine Greek: this provided for part of the background to the spreading of the Gospel also.........

[Anne2]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:16 PM, farouk said:

Hi @Anne2 I think sometimes ppl can make sweeping assumptions.

I think we all do this to some degree without knowing or understanding it.

If we look at Sarah,you see something going on when things began to go awry with Hagar. She called him on the carpet so to speak.

Then there is Rebekah, spoken to the Lord directly, concerning Jacob, and Esau.

Yet she did not confront Isaac in this thing, Like Sarah appears to do. She did not tell him Jacob, was to be firstborn, as some authority from the Lord (i.e. a prophetess)

Rom 9:10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12  It was said unto her, The Elder shall serve the younger.

Both of these women are spoken favorably in scripture......

I assume, in their personal obedience to the Lord.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Anne2