Are carnal Christian’s saved?

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Being “ in the flesh” speaks of being in the first Adam nature.  That is the sin nature that is supposed to be “put to death”in us when we are crucified with Christ.

If someone is still sinning, then they are still in the first Adam nature, which is flesh.

When a person is born again of the Holy Spirit that old Adam nature to sin “dies,”and we are raised up a new man in Christ.  The old ways pass away, and all things are made new.

That is what Paul means when he says we are no longer “in the flesh” but we are now “in the Spirit.”

When we are raised up a new man in Christ, it is now “Christ that lives in us,”not the old fleshy man of sin.

Galatians 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; (((yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:))) and the life which I now live in the flesh ((I live by the faith of the Son of God,))who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

1 Corinthians 15:45-47

King James Version

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and “afterward that which is spiritual.”

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; (((the second man is the Lord from heaven.)))

If people are still living in sin, then they are still in the first Adam nature.

When you are born again of the Spirit of Christ, you “put on Jesus Christ”and “His Holy nature.”

Romans 13:14

But “put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,”and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”

 

If the Spirit of Christ is “in” you, you will no longer be serving sin, but you will walk as Christ walks in Righteousness.

 

1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness (((is born of him.))))

1 John 3:7

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10

In this the children of God are (((manifest,)))and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness (((is not of God,)))neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

If people are living in sin, they ARE NOT “in Christ”

 

2 Corinthians 13:5

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how (((that Jesus Christ is in you,))) except ye be reprobates?

 

Romans 8:9

But ye are not “in the flesh,” but in “the Spirit,” if so be that the Spirit of God dwell “in”you. Now if any man have not (((the Spirit of Christ,)))he is none of his.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you don't sin any longer?  Really?  I have a hard time believing that you or anyone else never sins.  There was only one person who never sinned: Jesus Christ.

Here is what the apostle John wrote to Christians...

1 John 1:8-10, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

[Stewardofthemystery]

17 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Do you want to split us up into our three main components - body, soul & spirit?  If so, then no, my real being/my spirit does not sin.  The rest of me - sure . . . it's frequently off the mark (sin).

The physical body already has a death sentence because of sin.  

It is the soul that needs to be saved.  Jesus said it is the things that are within the man’s heart/spirit that “defiles a man.”

So trying to say what comes out has nothing to do with what is within the heart/mind/spirit is in error.
 

 

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

If the angels (sons of God) can fall, so can men.

Hebrews 10:26-31

King James Version

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, (((there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,)))

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, (((wherewith he was sanctified, )))an unholy thing, and hath done (((despite unto the Spirit of grace?)))

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Angels didn't have the Son of God die for their sins, and become a life-giving Spirit to make men His sons, with His life (sperma) in them.

If you have children, no matter what they do they cannot become unborn and somehow become NOT your children. They may receive discipline for what they are doing, but they will always have your life in them, which means it's a done deal.

What is in the new covenant is the same.  God gives us His life - we are born-again with His life.  Can't change that and can't undo that.

But, just like human children, there is also accountability for His children. They will - every child of His - receive discipline to help them grow, protect them and to help them  develop as they should.  And if they are faithful in a few things, there will be rewards. (if not, they will suffer loss as per 1 Cor 3:14-15)

It's easy to look at the verses that talk about accountability and discipline and think there's a loss of salvation and/or sonship.  But that's not the full view.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Alright, I will give you the opportunity to quote the scriptures that say those who are “born of God”keep on sinning.

I will be waiting….

You seem to misunderstand.  People don't get to dictate to God how to say what they will believe.  Doesn't work that way.  I have already shown you 2 verses that you STILL seem to be avoiding;  1 Jn 1:8 and 10.  Why is that?  John was writing to believers.  That proves that believers sin.  Those who claim what you are claiming.  You've proved it yourself by what you keep claiming in spite of those 2 verses.

So, you've now had the opportunity to face the facts.  Don't you think making God out to be a LIAR isn't somehow sin?  Of course it is.  v.10 applies to you directly.

[Stewardofthemystery]

51 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

You seem to misunderstand.  People don't get to dictate to God how to say what they will believe.  Doesn't work that way.  I have already shown you 2 verses that you STILL seem to be avoiding;  1 Jn 1:8 and 10.  Why is that?  John was writing to believers.  That proves that believers sin.  Those who claim what you are claiming.  You've proved it yourself by what you keep claiming in spite of those 2 verses.

So, you've now had the opportunity to face the facts.  Don't you think making God out to be a LIAR isn't somehow sin?  Of course it is.  v.10 applies to you directly.

I understand that you could not produce not one single verse of scripture that says those who are “born of God” keep on sinning.

So YOU do not get to dictate what is, and what is not written.😉

[Stewardofthemystery]

2 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Here is what the apostle John wrote to Christians...

1 John 1:8-10, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Yes, 1John1:8 means “for all have sinned” It is not an excuse for ongoing sin, neither does it suggest that born again Christians keep on sinning.

[Stewardofthemystery]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Angels didn't have the Son of God die for their sins, and become a life-giving Spirit to make men His sons, with His life (sperma) in them.

If you have children, no matter what they do they cannot become unborn and somehow become NOT your children. They may receive discipline for what they are doing, but they will always have your life in them, which means it's a done deal.

What is in the new covenant is the same.  God gives us His life - we are born-again with His life.  Can't change that and can't undo that.

But, just like human children, there is also accountability for His children. They will - every child of His - receive discipline to help them grow, protect them and to help them  develop as they should.  And if they are faithful in a few things, there will be rewards. (if not, they will suffer loss as per 1 Cor 3:14-15)

It's easy to look at the verses that talk about accountability and discipline and think there's a loss of salvation and/or sonship.  But that's not the full view.

Your name suggests that you are a Vine abider. But what happens if one does not abide in the Vine?

Jesus said in John 15:1-10 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.4

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

Ok, some claim all Christians still "abide in sin", and that they "keep on sinning" even though they claim to have been born again of God's Holy Spirit. And even despite that ongoing disobedience and reoccurring sin they proclaim you still "abide in Christ".

This my friends is false doctrine, because you cannot remain “in sin”and also remain “in Christ”at the same time.

Notice Jesus said in order to bear fruit one must "abide in Him", that also means believing in and abiding in His words. And here is what it means to abide in Him…

1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

The "seed" mentioned there is "Christ". And again to "abide in Christ" is to...

1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

So the simple truth is in order to bear good fruit we must "abide in Christ", which is to "abide in God's Word".

And as we saw above to "abide in His love" we must keep His commandments" And to abide in Christ and remain in Christ one must stop sinning, because sinning is not abiding in Gods Word, neither is sinning abiding in the faith of Christ.

Now if one is still sinning are they truly "in Christ"? Not according to the words of God.

Also we are shown in John 15 what happens if one in Him does not bear good fruit, Jesus said in John 15:2 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:” 

So anyone in him that does not bear good fruit he takes away, meaning you will no longer "abide in" the Life of Christ (the vine).

And not only that we are told in verse 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
 

That is not salvation people, that is Destruction.

Also we cannot bear good fruit on our own except we “abide in Him”John 15:4 “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” 

And again, to abide in Christ means you cannot abide “in sin.”

Sin is not good fruit.
And if you remain in sin, then you truly don’t "abide in Christ" do you?

And as Jesus said, those who do not "abide in Him" are cast forth as a branch, and then gathered and cast into the fire and burned.

Christ is not a vine of sin (minister of sin) Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Anyone who says you can “abide in sin”and still remain “in Christ”at the same time is a liar and a deceiver.

It is written in 2 John 9-10 “ Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”

It is your sins that separate you from God…

Isaiah 59:2 “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”

Just as Jesus is separated from sinners…..

Hebrews 7:26 “For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”

And again "in Christ" there is no sin….. 1 John 3…..
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever “abideth in him sinneth not:”whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

And to Love God and to "abide in Christ" is to keep His commandments….
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”

Abide in the Light of the Truth….1 John 2…..
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are “in him.”6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” 

Did Jesus walk in sin? Of course not!

Jesus said in John 12:46 " I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believes on me should not "abide in darkness." Meaning you should not abide in "the works of darkness," which is sin.

Also no false doctrine, or lie is of the Truth…..21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.” 

Just as the prince of this world and his spirit has no place in Christ either…. John 14:30 “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” 

Sin and darkness do not “abide in”the Light of Christ, and neither do those who still abide “in sin”and in darkness.

Jesus said whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin, and a servant of sin will not abide in His house forever. 

Brethren, abide in Christ. Peace and God bless

[enoob57]

6 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

What I do, and what others do, does not make the words of God any less true.  

no but if you teach a thing you better be doing it
What does it mean that teachers will be judged more strictly (James 3:1)? | GotQuestions.org

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 7/26/2023 at 7:50 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In scripture you will see examples of some who were first water baptised before receiving the Holy Spirit.  And you will see some who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit first, and then were later water baptised by men.

If a Christian has only been water baptised by men, but is yet to be baptised of the Holy Spirit by God, then they are still “in the flesh,”and are yet “carnal.”

Jesus shows the difference here…

John 3

King James Version

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of “the flesh is flesh;”and that which is born of “the Spirit is spirit.”

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

So when you are born again of the Spirit you are now “in the Spirit”and you are no longer “in the flesh” as Paul says here….

Romans 8:9

But ye are not “in the flesh,”but “ in the Spirit,”if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

When Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, he was talking about the salvation process. Being born again is the salvation process. The original water baptism that John was doing had nothing to do with salvation. Actually water baptism STILL has nothing to do with salvation because a person should already be saved when they are baptized. A carnal christian is someone who lives for themself, or are after the flesh. I have never seen a scripture that says a person can lose their salvation, and I've read the bible 20+ times, read lots of books on the OSAS subject, and debated lots of people. Being carnal is NOT a risk to your salvation. Those who believe it is do not have a proper understanding of Grace, Sanctification, Christ's saving work on the cross, or the eternal rewards we DO have to work in this life to get. Being carnal WILL result in troubles in this life and you may not have God's blessings in your life, BUT it does not affect your salvation in any way. 

[Stewardofthemystery]

10 hours ago, enoob57 said:

no but if you teach a thing you better be doing it
What does it mean that teachers will be judged more strictly (James 3:1)? | GotQuestions.org

My conscience is clean.