A Process Or Now

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Rockson said:

We don't know what God thought about those other marriages as we don't know anything about them. But we do know he called them husbands....the last one she was living with Jesus said IS NOT your husband though. 

Hi, I do not think Jesus was nitpicking about marriage. He was instead deliberately selecting this woman in order to be sharing that He was inviting all that will come. All that will come in spite of their reputations good or bad before men. That message given her  now recorded for all to read and heed to this day.

..."Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,  but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”

 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”

The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.”

Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”

 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”

Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.  You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.  But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

 

Today we, you and I, at this moment are nitpicking  at what is marriage, when the message is not that one need be this way or that one, but instead that a time has come; a time when  God is calling us all to Him through Jesus  via the Holy Spirit.

To put it into practical application is it important to make sure a couple has church approved documentation of their intimate union? Or is it important to share that Jesus has  declared a time is here for as many as will to receive their, and our, savior and be found washed white as snow, acceptable to God, by the covering of the shed blood of Jesus? That all may come even those married five times and counting including a more casual arrangement. All may become the bride the bride of Christ Jesus. That is the important message to be receiving and sharing. Each can be seen as pefect in the eye of God through Jesus' sacrifice made for us individually.

Do we then continue in our sinful activities? No, what a shame that would be to ourselves to have to face God eternally with such lack of appreciation for the awesome mercy extended.

 

[JimmyB]

3 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

You are correct Jimmy about a man and woman who live together as roommates but who refrain from sexual activity.  If that is the case, then no sin has occurred.  But in today's parlance, if people "live together," then that connotes having sexual relations.  

I thought about this more.  Suppose two men live together, or two women.  Does that also imply sexual relations?  Personally, I think people fantasize too much for their own good, including Christians.

To me living together means nothing more than living together.

[Yes, and]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:41 AM, Yes, and said:

I have questions:

1) Who do you believe should take decisive action?

2) What kind of action do you envision needs to be taken?

3) Is there any action you could take?

4) If not, why not?

Yup, I'm quoting myself. I have to say I am very puzzled, firstly because, @Rockson, you never answered these questions, and when I tried again to get to what you were really asking about, the answer was vague. In your initial post you used living together as an example, not as the subject. When you say, "there seems to be a disconnect that God does insist on certain things" (with living together ostensibly being only one of those things), and when you say "I believe decisive action needs to take place when it comes to things like this. What say you?," this indicates to me you want to discuss "decisive action" whenever something like living together is seen in your assembly. Hence, my questions. And now I have more...

If you truly only wanted to talk about living together being wrong—as it now appears to be the case—what was your point? Was your point to just have some brethren on this forum back you up in your view that the leaders ("fine good loving people" though they are) have dropped the ball on this particular matter (thus your suggesting there is a "disconnect"?) And if your viewpoint is backed up by others, then what? What are you going to do having been so reinforced?

Now, more directly: do you personally know some of these people who are living together? Are you in true community (communion) with them? Are you able, by virtue of a real relationship with them, to talk with them about how they are living, such that you might have a spiritual influence on them so that they may mature in their faith and live ever more closely in and to the purity and holiness of God? Or...

Do you not know these people at all? Do you live in a belief and an expectation that the leaders of your assembly are the (only!) ones who need to take decisive action? If this is your belief and expectation, how is this any different than that which so many Protestants charge the Catholics with creating: the "clergy/laity distinction"? (Truth: the clergy/laity distinction came well before Roman Catholicism "officially" emerged.) Is the "clergy" supposed to take care of all of this waywardness, while we just sit on our thumbs in the pews?

Hello-o-o!? Does anyone else reading this thread see the real problem here?

[Rockson]

4 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Yup, I'm quoting myself. I have to say I am very puzzled, firstly because, @Rockson, you never answered these questions, and when I tried again to get to what you were really asking about, the answer was vague. In your initial post you used living together as an example, not as the subject. When you say, "there seems to be a disconnect that God does insist on certain things" (with living together ostensibly being only one of those things), and when you say "I believe decisive action needs to take place when it comes to things like this. What say you?," this indicates to me you want to discuss "decisive action" whenever something like living together is seen in your assembly. Hence, my questions. And now I have more...

If you truly only wanted to talk about living together being wrong—as it now appears to be the case—what was your point? Was your point to just have some brethren on this forum back you up in your view that the leaders ("fine good loving people" though they are) have dropped the ball on this particular matter (thus your suggesting there is a "disconnect"?) And if your viewpoint is backed up by others, then what? What are you going to do having been so reinforced?

Now, more directly: do you personally know some of these people who are living together? Are you in true community (communion) with them? Are you able, by virtue of a real relationship with them, to talk with them about how they are living, such that you might have a spiritual influence on them so that they may mature in their faith and live ever more closely in and to the purity and holiness of God? Or...

Do you not know these people at all? Do you live in a belief and an expectation that the leaders of your assembly are the (only!) ones who need to take decisive action? If this is your belief and expectation, how is this any different than that which so many Protestants charge the Catholics with creating: the "clergy/laity distinction"? (Truth: the clergy/laity distinction came well before Roman Catholicism "officially" emerged.) Is the "clergy" supposed to take care of all of this waywardness, while we just sit on our thumbs in the pews?

Hello-o-o!? Does anyone else reading this thread see the real problem here?

Early morning hours for me right now....and going to another city tomorrow. I'll try to revisit your questions soon as I can and appreciate the points you've made and will consider them. Talk in a day or so. Thanks 

[BeyondET]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:10 PM, Rockson said:

I do thank you for your input. Even though I have some reservations in regard to what you've said I did ask for opinions and am willing to consider them. Actually i would say it DOES imply having a physicals relationship and I think most everyone knows that. Is it possible that's not taking place? Yes possible but highly doubtful as people have put themselves in a place of great temptation. I think most know that too. 

I think your usage of Lk 8 is pretty weak in this regard. So if they had tents are you saying female A would be laying in a closed area with a male that it wouldn't open them up to great temptation? Are you suggesting Jesus would approve of that? Doesn't make sense to me. And if they were in one big room as a massive group, and maybe this is what took place on the day of Pentecost 40 days in the upper room....tarrying.....I have an impossible time envisioning an unmarried couple would be in a room by themselves. 

And back to your post....it does not imply intercourse. And what if the individuals I'm talking about don't deny at all that they're engaging in such? So are you saying you would be against this if you knew it meant that for these people? 

 

 

I don't think it's not that uncommon.

A great temptation? Probably if that's the only thing a person is thinking about.

Age has something to do with it too. People in their twenties might be a issue. Probably not for people in their seventies.

[Rockson]

13 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Yup, I'm quoting myself. I have to say I am very puzzled, firstly because, @Rockson, you never answered these questions, and when I tried again to get to what you were really asking about, the answer was vague. In your initial post you used living together as an example, not as the subject. When you say, "there seems to be a disconnect that God does insist on certain things" (with living together ostensibly being only one of those things), and when you say "I believe decisive action needs to take place when it comes to things like this. What say you?," this indicates to me you want to discuss "decisive action" whenever something like living together is seen in your assembly. Hence, my questions. And now I have more...

If you truly only wanted to talk about living together being wrong—as it now appears to be the case—what was your point? Was your point to just have some brethren on this forum back you up in your view that the leaders ("fine good loving people" though they are) have dropped the ball on this particular matter (thus your suggesting there is a "disconnect"?) And if your viewpoint is backed up by others, then what? What are you going to do having been so reinforced?

Now, more directly: do you personally know some of these people who are living together? Are you in true community (communion) with them? Are you able, by virtue of a real relationship with them, to talk with them about how they are living, such that you might have a spiritual influence on them so that they may mature in their faith and live ever more closely in and to the purity and holiness of God? Or...

Do you not know these people at all? Do you live in a belief and an expectation that the leaders of your assembly are the (only!) ones who need to take decisive action? If this is your belief and expectation, how is this any different than that which so many Protestants charge the Catholics with creating: the "clergy/laity distinction"? (Truth: the clergy/laity distinction came well before Roman Catholicism "officially" emerged.) Is the "clergy" supposed to take care of all of this waywardness, while we just sit on our thumbs in the pews?

Hello-o-o!? Does anyone else reading this thread see the real problem here?

Ok let's see if I can answer some of your earlier questions now. So 

1) Who do you believe should take decisive action? That would be of course the leaders of the gathering of believers wherever they go. 

2) What kind of action do you envision needs to be taken? It's outlined in 1 Cor 5 the whole chapter. Have a read of it all if you might and comment back. It speaks of those who are in fornication.....it speaks of leaders who prided themselves for not doing something about it. It speaks of what should be done. It speaks of while the church is not to judge as Jesus stated, 1 Cor 5 brings a clarity. It speaks that in the church or gathering of believers you have to judge in a certain context. It also speaks if you don't carry out the instructions don't you know a little leaven can spoil the whole lump and your inaction isn't REALLY  walking in love. 

3) Is there any action you could take?

I have talked to this one particular couple on the phone....they were in my home group meeting that our church has in homes. I was their cell group leader. 

[Rockson]

14 hours ago, Yes, and said:

 

If you truly only wanted to talk about living together being wrong—as it now appears to be the case—what was your point?

Now but on actions that should be taken based on the word of God. 

14 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Was your point to just have some brethren on this forum back you up in your view that the leaders ("fine good loving people" though they are) have dropped the ball on this particular matter (thus your suggesting there is a "disconnect"?)

Seeking to get a consensus about what other saint of God feel about this. Sometimes good to get another perspective. Maybe I'm missing something I shold be seeing. Or maybe I'm not?

14 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Now, more directly: do you personally know some of these people who are living together?

Yes as I say I was their cell group leader and believe it or not or accept it or not I  do love them dearly. 

14 hours ago, Yes, and said:

Are you in true community (communion) with them? Are you able, by virtue of a real relationship with them, to talk with them about how they are living, such that you might have a spiritual influence on them so that they may mature in their faith and live ever more closely in and to the purity and holiness of God?

Yes I've talked to them and on the phone too. Not in any condescending manner and they know I love them both. The female said even without me having brought it up it was bothering her a long time. She just feels God knows we're not perfect and he understands. 

14 hours ago, Yes, and said:

 

 

[Rockson]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:55 AM, JimmyB said:

I thought about this more.  Suppose two men live together, or two women.  Does that also imply sexual relations?  Personally, I think people fantasize too much for their own good, including Christians.

To me living together means nothing more than living together.

No offence but I would say NOT to those who don't want to put themselves in a place of high temptation. 

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, Rockson said:

No offence but I would say NOT to those who don't want to put themselves in a place of high temptation. 

So two young men or two young women who want to live together are putting themselves in a place of high temptation?  Seriously?  No housemates, no sharing an apartment, everyone living alone? LOL!

[BeyondET]

2 hours ago, Rockson said:

No offence but I would say NOT to those who don't want to put themselves in a place of high temptation. 

Why do you think it's a high temptation?