The 24 elders around God Throne are the representation of the church

[DeighAnn]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:56 PM, Revelation Man said:

I agree with all but one point. Then I will add in an observation at the bottom.

The one point is when these type things are said  we tend to think of earth as only this earth, but I think that verse points to us reigning eternally on the [New] Earth. See my point? Why do we assume its the earth where Jesus will rule for 1000 years with ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who refused to take the Mark of the Beast, so says Rev. 20:4. So, when you have conflicting scriptures, we have to learn to look for "THE OUT" so to speak, what gets us out of the two scriptures being conflicted and to me, Rev. 20:4 says ONLY THOSE who died as Martyrs whilst refusing the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Jesus during his 1000 year reign, I mean, God is all knowing, Jesus doesn't need every human who ever lived as Christians to help him rule on earth, those who die during the 70th week will be plenty, IMHO, we will be finishing off the New Jerusalem, thus when it descends it is described as the Bride of Christ, because we build it, and descend in it. 

The New Heavens and New Earth, IMHO, is what those in Rev. 5:9-10 are speaking about. 

The observation is I forget if you are Pre Trib or Post Trib so I did not want to presuppose your position. But those seen in Heaven here (Rev. 5:9-10) are seen before the Seals are ever opened, so these are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. 

Where does the army go?

[Revelation Man]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Where does the army go?

The Army are those in heaven who married the Lamb Jesus, returned with him, to see Jesus defeat the Beast and his minions by speaking victory, so the word Army is more a tag of sorts, we fight nothing per se (let that be noted), Jesus speaks victory by the presence of his coming. So, we the "Army" of Christ merely tag along by faith with the Creator of al things, Amen.

But alas, as I stated, I see us going back to the 3rd Heaven, not in this Universe, Heaven means expansion, open air, the firmament in Genesis is the sky. The 1st Heaven/is our Atmosphere, the 2nd Heaven is our Universe and the 3rd Heaven is God's throne outside this Universe. So, we go back to the 3rd Heaven, and we build a new (2nd Heaven) New Heaven and New Earth far mankind to live in. Now God created another Universe for us and we build the New Jerusalem, that is my opinion, God hates idleness. We will not just sit around diung nothing, then as the New Jerusalem descends, it will be called the Bride of Christ.

[DeighAnn]

13 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Army are those in heaven who married the Lamb Jesus, returned with him, to see Jesus defeat the Beast and his minions by speaking victory, so the word Army is more a tag of sorts, we fight nothing per se (let that be noted), Jesus speaks victory by the presence of his coming. So, we the "Army" of Christ merely tag along by faith with the Creator of al things, Amen.

But alas, as I stated, I see us going back to the 3rd Heaven, not in this Universe, Heaven means expansion, open air, the firmament in Genesis is the sky. The 1st Heaven/is our Atmosphere, the 2nd Heaven is our Universe and the 3rd Heaven is God's throne outside this Universe. So, we go back to the 3rd Heaven, and we build a new (2nd Heaven) New Heaven and New Earth far mankind to live in. Now God created another Universe for us and we build the New Jerusalem, that is my opinion, God hates idleness. We will not just sit around diung nothing, then as the New Jerusalem descends, it will be called the Bride of Christ.

None of that is written in my Bible.

My Bible says The 
 

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.



1 Corinth 15

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

Death is swallowed up in victory  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


1 Thessalonians 4

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?




What WORDS are found in your Bible that render the above NULL AND VOID?


 

[Revelation Man]

8 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

None of that is written in my Bible.

Its all there, you do not understand how to dig it out. Lets see, Jesus' birth was foretold but it was not in BIG RED LETTERS, that is what you seem to need also. Tat is not how Prophecy works. If you do nit understand that, then you might as well quit looking. God gives us things he says will happen or want happen, then a wise man will say HOLD UP, if God says this happens then this CAN;T HAPPEN, even though its not stated, it doesn't need to be stated. God did not need to give the exact time, place day, and name of Jesus, he gave hinds and clues that some men of God understood, but most did not see, but it was there.

You not understanding prophecy does not change prophecy. 

[DeighAnn]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

The Army are those in heaven who married the Lamb Jesus, returned with him, to see Jesus defeat the Beast and his minions by speaking victory, so the word Army is more a tag of sorts, we fight nothing per se (let that be noted), Jesus speaks victory by the presence of his coming. So, we the "Army" of Christ merely tag along by faith with the Creator of al things, Amen.

Matthew 13

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


2 Thessalonians 1

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

Revelation 14

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

 

Revelation 19

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Where is it written 'tag along'?  

17 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But alas, as I stated, I see us going back to the 3rd Heaven, not in this Universe,

I missed all that Scripture.  Could you please  COPY AND PASTE IT FOR ME THAT SCRIPTURE FOR ME

SO THAT I MIGHT SEE WHAT YOU SAY

'PROVED BY WHAT GOD SAYS'

If there isn't ANY SCRIPTURE,

then all you have is your words, and there WILL BE NO COPY AND PASTING OF GODS WORDS 

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its all there, you do not understand how to dig it out. Lets see, Jesus' birth was foretold but it was not in BIG RED LETTERS, that is what you seem to need also. Tat is not how Prophecy works. If you do nit understand that, then you might as well quit looking. God gives us things he says will happen or want happen, then a wise man will say HOLD UP, if God says this happens then this CAN;T HAPPEN, even though its not stated, it doesn't need to be stated. God did not need to give the exact time, place day, and name of Jesus, he gave hinds and clues that some men of God understood, but most did not see, but it was there.

You not understanding prophecy does not change prophecy. 

No matter what 'you think you see' WHAT IS WRITTEN has to REMAIN TRUTH.  If what YOU THINK makes what is written NULL AND VOID then what you are seeing is FALSE.  

ANY take on what is written that does that...IT IS PROVED TO BE FALSE.  

The THRONE of DAVID is on earth.  All the PROPHECIES given have to do with WHAT we do ON the EARTH  In heaven WE WORSHIP GOD.  HE HAS HIS OWN KINGDOM COMPLETE WITH ELDERS way before 'a pre trib' rapture.  WE ARE BUT A SHADOW of that KINGDOM, He doesn't need any of us 'taking over' for those already there.   

Show ONE PROPHECY that STATES anything taking place in heaven as far as BUILDING Jerusalem, TAKING OVER for the elders etc or us having anything to do with the NEW JERUSALEM before the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH AGE. 

then we will talk.  Till then YOU CAN'T PROVE WHAT YOU SAY TO BE anything written in the words of GOD

There are NO SECRET INTERPRETATIONS.  

21And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

22For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

23If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.








 

.

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

16No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

18Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

 

16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

yet somehow all of yours are...WITH NO WAY to prove them.   

[Revelation Man]

26 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

No matter what 'you think you see' WHAT IS WRITTEN has to REMAIN TRUTH.  If what YOU THINK makes what is written NULL AND VOID then what you are seeing is FALSE.  

ANY take on what is written that does that...IT IS PROVED TO BE FALSE.  

The THRONE of DAVID is on earth.  All the PROPHECIES given have to do with WHAT we do ON the EARTH  In heaven WE WORSHIP GOD.  HE HAS HIS OWN KINGDOM COMPLETE WITH ELDERS way before 'a pre trib' rapture.  WE ARE BUT A SHADOW of that KINGDOM, He doesn't need any of us 'taking over' for those already there.   

Show ONE PROPHECY that STATES anything taking place in heaven as far as BUILDING Jerusalem, TAKING OVER for the elders etc or us having anything to do with the NEW JERUSALEM before the NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH AGE. 

then we will talk.  Till then YOU CAN'T PROVE WHAT YOU SAY TO BE anything written in the words of GOD

There are NO SECRET INTERPRETATIONS.  

21And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

22For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

23If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.








 

.

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

16No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

18Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

 

16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

yet somehow all of yours are...WITH NO WAY to prove them.   

Prophecy is not your calling. That was obvious long ago.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

I personally believe the 24 elders are literal people. I think they are the 12 tribes of Israel ( sons of Jacob ) and the 12 Apostles. Just my opinion. I can't prove it.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Its all there, you do not understand how to dig it out. Lets see, Jesus' birth was foretold but it was not in BIG RED LETTERS, that is what you seem to need also.

THE WISE MEN understood it.   HEROD understood it.  The MULTITUDES understood it.  The only ones who didn't see it were the VIPERS, the synagogue of Satan calling themselves Jews. Who else was going around  Healing the sick?  Raising the dead?  Speaking with authority?   Causing a MASS EXODUS from their synagogues?  

SO BIG RED LETTERS weren't necessary.  It was those who THOUGHT they knew the most, were the MOST educated, thought themselves to be the ONLY ones who COULD SEE who didn't get it.   You know, those who made a BIG DEAL about who THEY were, those making BIG PRETENSES about who they were.  

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

33 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Prophecy is not your calling. That was obvious long ago.

How could you see it any differently?  Not knowing the basics of the tribes of Israel nor how/what Ephriam and Manasseh figure in etc.   How can you build without a proper foundation without that knowledge.  So your judgement of me is taken from that point of reference, so no other conclusion can really be expected.  

The inability of PROVING your beliefs to be RIGHT became obvious long ago and continues on today, with NO SCRIPTURE able to back them.