TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,054 Content Per Day: 1.60 Reputation: 599 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2023 7 hours ago, The Light said: There are two raptures. One before the seals are opened and one at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Could you please show me which verses your taking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2023 42 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: Could you please show me which verses your taking about? Timeline for the first rapture is the 24 elders WITH CROWNS in Revelation 4. The crowns tell you Jesus HAS come. Revelation 4 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. There are also kings and priests in heaven before the throne in Rev 5. Revelation 5 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Then there is the rapture at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Most people think that the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24 occurs at the 7th trumpet. We can tell that is in error by the following verses. Matthew 24 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is the second rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 21 hours ago, The Light said: Additionally, the Last Trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and also has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The last trump is the 7th trumpet that sounds when Jesus comes and the dead are raised and judged and he sets up his kingdom and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ...This is the last trumpet of the sequence of seven and no one was resurrected before this...This is when Paul said we shall ALL be changed..at the last trumpet...Because ALL will be changed at the last trumpet, there is no one else that would be changed at some other time... The saints are resurrected, judged and rewarded at the 7th Trumpet...because they are resurrected, judged and rewarded at the 7th trumpet they were not also resurrected, judged, and rewarded before the 7th trumpet. This is what happens at the seventh trumpet: 1) The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ: 2) He takes to himself his great power and reigns... 3) Its the time of the dead that they should be judged... 4) He gives reward to his servants the prophets, the saints, and to them that fear his name both small and great... THIS IS THE TIME OF THE DEAD THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED...ALL THE DEAD ARE RESURRECTED...HE THEN GIVES REWARDS TO HIS ALL HIS SAINTS...THE PROPHETS, THEM THAT FEAR HIS NAME BOTH SMALL AND GREAT... ALL THE SAINTS ARE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET... NOT PART OF THE SAINTS, NOT BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...ALL THE SAINTS ARE RESURRECTED AND THE SAINTS ARE REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET... NO SAINT WAS JUDGED, REWARDED OR RESURRECTED TO IMMORTALITY BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET..IT HAPPENS TO ALL SAINTS AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...NOT BEFORE!!!!! NOT AT ANOTHER TIME!!!! NOT PART OF THEM BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET, NOT PART OF THEM AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...ALL ARE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 21 hours ago, The Light said: As was shown above, the reason that MANY of them that sleep in the ground are raised is because the people of Daniel are raised. There are plenty of people that will not be raised until the 7th trumpet blown by an angel, but it will not be the people of Daniel. The seventh trumpet is WHEN the resurrection of Daniel 12 takes place...it specifically states AT THAT TIME that the man of sin comes to his end and none shall help him is the specific time that those that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake... Dan. 11:45 And he (anti christ) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come his end, and none shall help him. He comes to his end AT THE SECOND COMING, when Christ comes and takes the beast and with him the false prophet and casts them into the lake of fire... The time frame is specific...AT THE TIME HE COMES TO HIS END IS WHEN THE RESURRECTION OF BOTH GOOD AND BAD HAPPENS... So when you say that refers to Daniels people and THEY won't be raised until the seventh trumpet, be aware that the seventh trumpet is WHEN THE RESURRECTION IN DANIEL 12;3 takes place...there are not two resurrections at the seventh trumpet...ALL WILL BE CHANGED THEN...the OT saints, the NT saints, the tribulation saints...EVERY SAINT THAT BELONGS TO CHRIST WILL BE RAISED AT THE SECOND COMING...AND THIS RESURRECTION SHOWN IN DANIEL 12;3 IS THE SAME RESURRECTION THAT TAKES PLACE AT THE LAST TRUMP...IT IS THE FULFILLMENT OF 'CHRIST THE FIRST-FRUITS, AFTERWARD THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S AT THIS COMING...' ALL THE SAINTS BELONG TO CHRIST..GOD GAVE ALL THE SAINTS TO CHRIST...THIS MEANS DANIEL, THIS MEANS NOAH, THIS MEANS PETER, THIS MEANS PAUL AND YOU AND ME...THERE ARE NO SAINTS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST..... Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 21 hours ago, The Light said: During the 70th week of Daniel the Lord will turn His attention to Israel as the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. At the Last Trump on the Feast of Trumpets the dead and alive will changed in the twinkling of an eye. The dead and the living are all changed at the Last trump...not before...this includes Daniels people which would mean 'the prophets,' and it would also mean 'the saints' and it would also mean 'those that fear his name, both small and great...' in other words ALL SAINTS, Both Daniels people, those that fear his name, the prophets like Zechariah, Daniel, Abraham, Isaiah...ALL WILL BE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET, JUST AS REV. 11:16 STATES...NO ONE WAS JUDGED, RESURRECTED OR REWARDED BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET BECAUSE ALL WERE JUDGED, RESURRECTED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 22 hours ago, The Light said: That seems strange that the living would have an immortal body and just hang around on the earth when the dead in Christ rise up and go to heaven. The scripture says the dead in Christ rise FIRST, that means they both do not go up at the same time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 22 hours ago, The Light said: Additionally, the Church is already raised before the seals are opened which is why there are 24 elders with crowns in Rev 4 and kings and priest before the throne in Revelation 5 The church is 'not already raised,' as it plainly states ALL ARE CHANGED AT THE LAST TRUMP...NOT PART OF THE BELIEVERS CHANGED BEFORE THE LAST TRUMPET, AND ANOTHER PART OF THE BELIEVERS CHANGED AT ANOTHER TIME...NO...THE WHEAT AND THE TARES GROW UP TOGETHER UNTIL THE HARVEST...SOME OF THE WHEAT IS NOT HARVESTED BEFORE THE END AND THEN ANOTHER PART OF THE WHEAT IS HARVEST AT THE END...NO!!! The wheat and the tares are both harvest at the same time...which is the end of THIS AGE...the end of THIS age is at the second coming...then in the MK we go into the NEXT AGE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, transmogrified said: The last trump is the 7th trumpet that sounds when Jesus comes and the dead are raised and judged and he sets up his kingdom and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ...This is the last trumpet of the sequence of seven and no one was resurrected before this...This is when Paul said we shall ALL be changed..at the last trumpet...Because ALL will be changed at the last trumpet, there is no one else that would be changed at some other time... The saints are resurrected, judged and rewarded at the 7th Trumpet...because they are resurrected, judged and rewarded at the 7th trumpet they were not also resurrected, judged, and rewarded before the 7th trumpet. This is what happens at the seventh trumpet: 1) The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ: 2) He takes to himself his great power and reigns... 3) Its the time of the dead that they should be judged... 4) He gives reward to his servants the prophets, the saints, and to them that fear his name both small and great... THIS IS THE TIME OF THE DEAD THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED...ALL THE DEAD ARE RESURRECTED...HE THEN GIVES REWARDS TO HIS ALL HIS SAINTS...THE PROPHETS, THEM THAT FEAR HIS NAME BOTH SMALL AND GREAT... ALL THE SAINTS ARE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET... NOT PART OF THE SAINTS, NOT BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...ALL THE SAINTS ARE RESURRECTED AND THE SAINTS ARE REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET... NO SAINT WAS JUDGED, REWARDED OR RESURRECTED TO IMMORTALITY BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET..IT HAPPENS TO ALL SAINTS AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...NOT BEFORE!!!!! NOT AT ANOTHER TIME!!!! NOT PART OF THEM BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET, NOT PART OF THEM AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...ALL ARE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET...!!!! And you are incorrect. Yes, there are dead raised at the 7th trumpet but there are dead raised at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. This is proven by Daniel 12. Daniel 12 happens at the great tribulation. Tribulation is OVER BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD BEGINS. The harvest is at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Ask a Jew with any religious ties what the Last Trump is and he will tell you it is the Last Trump of 100 trumpet blasts that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Daniel 12  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Now lets put an absolute nail in the coffin. 2 Thes 2 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Thes 2:1-2 Tells us that the coming of Lord and the gathering takes place BEFORE the Day of the Lord. This is cut and dried, hands down, no questions asked, proof, that the coming of Jesus occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE Gods wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, transmogrified said: The seventh trumpet is WHEN the resurrection of Daniel 12 takes place...it specifically states AT THAT TIME that the man of sin comes to his end and none shall help him is the specific time that those that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake... Dan. 11:45 And he (anti christ) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come his end, and none shall help him. He comes to his end AT THE SECOND COMING, when Christ comes and takes the beast and with him the false prophet and casts them into the lake of fire... The time frame is specific...AT THE TIME HE COMES TO HIS END IS WHEN THE RESURRECTION OF BOTH GOOD AND BAD HAPPENS... So when you say that refers to Daniels people and THEY won't be raised until the seventh trumpet, be aware that the seventh trumpet is WHEN THE RESURRECTION IN DANIEL 12;3 takes place...there are not two resurrections at the seventh trumpet...ALL WILL BE CHANGED THEN...the OT saints, the NT saints, the tribulation saints...EVERY SAINT THAT BELONGS TO CHRIST WILL BE RAISED AT THE SECOND COMING...AND THIS RESURRECTION SHOWN IN DANIEL 12;3 IS THE SAME RESURRECTION THAT TAKES PLACE AT THE LAST TRUMP...IT IS THE FULFILLMENT OF 'CHRIST THE FIRST-FRUITS, AFTERWARD THEY THAT ARE CHRIST'S AT THIS COMING...' ALL THE SAINTS BELONG TO CHRIST..GOD GAVE ALL THE SAINTS TO CHRIST...THIS MEANS DANIEL, THIS MEANS NOAH, THIS MEANS PETER, THIS MEANS PAUL AND YOU AND ME...THERE ARE NO SAINTS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.....   No. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal, BEFORE the wrath of God. When there is war in heaven during the great tribulation, this is BEFORE WRATH. Daniel 12 is talking about the great tribulation. When the tribulation ends, Jesus comes and the gathering from heaven and earth occurs. The dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. 2 Thes 2 tells us the gathering occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord. 2 Thes 2 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, This is confirmed by the coming of Jesus for the harvest in Rev 14. The harvest occurs and the unrighteous ARE CAST INTO THE WRATH OF GOD. Revelation 14 4 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Jesus remains in the clouds and at the harvest the righteous are taken to heaven for the marriage supper. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven for the marriage supper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 19, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, transmogrified said: The dead and the living are all changed at the Last trump...not before...this includes Daniels people which would mean 'the prophets,' and it would also mean 'the saints' and it would also mean 'those that fear his name, both small and great...' in other words ALL SAINTS, Both Daniels people, those that fear his name, the prophets like Zechariah, Daniel, Abraham, Isaiah...ALL WILL BE RESURRECTED, JUDGED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET, JUST AS REV. 11:16 STATES...NO ONE WAS JUDGED, RESURRECTED OR REWARDED BEFORE THE SEVENTH TRUMPET BECAUSE ALL WERE JUDGED, RESURRECTED AND REWARDED AT THE SEVENTH TRUMP... Are you unable to see that Jesus returns for the gathering from heaven and earth AT THE 6TH SEAL. Are you unable to see that the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven at the 6th seal? Are you unable to see that the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven when Jesus comes in power and glory in Matthew 24. This is not just a coincidence. The Word is telling you Jesus comes at the 6th seal in power and glory. Revelation 6 12Â And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13Â And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Matthew 24 29Â Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30Â And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31Â And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. He sends His angels at the 6th seal to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The dead are raised at the Last Trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast. Do you not see the great multitude in heaven right after this? Do you look past these things as if they are not there? Revelation 7 9Â After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Edited October 19, 2023 by The Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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