The Problem With Evolution Part 2- Animals

[Scott Free]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

Yom, a day. Look it up.

So, my point is time is relevant to the observer and has no universally set meter.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Pet 3:8

The Jewish Rabbis insisted on the traditional interpretation of scripture about the Messiah. So, their perceptions about the reality of the situation were inadequate when faced with the actual work of God outside the limitations of written words.

 

 

[Starise]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:40 AM, Scott Free said:

So, my point is time is relevant to the observer and has no universally set meter.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Pet 3:8

The Jewish Rabbis insisted on the traditional interpretation of scripture about the Messiah. So, their perceptions about the reality of the situation were inadequate when faced with the actual work of God outside the limitations of written words.

 

 

I was once one of those who did everything in my power to try to resolve what could have happened between verses, because in my mind the two, science and the bible, were saying something different. Then we have this competing set of ideas. I went round and round with an atheist who studied cosmology and was convinced it took something like 250 billion years for the universe to develop.

And rightly so, the universe seems to be the oldest thing we can measure. We have the outline in Genesis 1. " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Let me repeat that. The heavens AND the earth. It seems the heavens came first. More detail is set later. God WHO IS A SOURCE OF LIGHT, WHO IS LIGHT, began  to make the rest of our habitat. 

In order to adopt the "day is as a thousand years"in the strict sense, if we tried to shoehorn this idea into the seven days of Genesis, each day would be 1000 years. According to evolutionists and those supporting billions of years this isn't nearly enough time.

If we adopt the "day is as a thousand years"in a liberal sense, it means that time is really immaterial to God. This would be the interpretation I would adopt, but I don't think this interpretation applies to Genesis in any case because we have the word yom, which means a day, literally a day in the context of Genesis. In the same passages we have the statement, " and evening and morning were the first DAY" If the time span were longer, then how do we resolve "evening and morning" one spin of the earth? Yet another problem with millions of years, Creating one step and waiting lots of time to make the rest would have resulted in an incomplete ecosystem for a very long time.

Not only that, but we have the statement in Exodus direcly relating creation days to 24 hour days.

Exodus 20:11 

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God is not a servant to time, but time as we know it, comes from Him, and is built into our universe.

The problem with quoting billions of years is, there is no accuracy in measurement, and one gets the feeling it's a guesstimate. Pick a number, any number. 

The universe is expanding and has a life span like any wind up toy, eventually the energy will be depleted. Guesstimates on age are based on calculations that use variables which, while thought to be solid, can in fact be different or change. In other words, we think we have accuracy, but as things have progressed, we see that these numbers could be inaccurate.

 

[Scott Free]

44 minutes ago, Starise said:

"day is as a thousand years"

A thousand years a day is missing the point of the scripture. The thousand years references seem to be trying to get us to think objectively outside our own point of reference, not establish an arbitrary metric.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Scott Free

[Starise]

13 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

A thousand years a day is missing the point of the scripture. The thousand years references seem to be trying to get us to think objectively outside our own point of reference, not establish an arbitrary metric.

Well, this statement is used often in discussions on the age of the earth and in discussions revolving around end times as an argument. The context of this statement revolves around those who give up on God and say He's never coming back and begin to live in sin, so this was in response to those who scoff and say the Lord isn't coming back. 

Text here-

2 Peter 3:3-8 Verse 6 especially pertains to creation.

³ Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. ⁴ They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” ⁵ But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. ⁶ By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. ⁷ By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

⁸ But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. ⁹ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

It should probably be noted that interpretation of prophecy involves time increments that are divided into 1000 year chunks, so when day is mentioned in relation to the age of the earth we can get close to knowing when some things will happen  No I'm not about to delve into that here.

[Starise]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

Well, this statement is used often in discussions on the age of the earth and in discussions revolving around end times as an argument. The context of this statement revolves around those who give up on God and say He's never coming back and begin to live in sin, so this was in response to those who scoff and say the Lord isn't coming back. 

Text here-

2 Peter 3:3-8 Verse 6 especially pertains to creation.

³ Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. ⁴ They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” ⁵ But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. ⁶ By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. ⁷ By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

⁸ But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. ⁹ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

It should probably be noted that interpretation of prophecy involves time increments that are divided into time  chunks, so when day is mentioned in relation to the age of the earth we can get close to knowing when some things will happen  No I'm not about to delve into that here.

 

[Scott Free]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

No I'm not about to delve into that here.

I hear you, the problem is when people are desperate for validation, going into a narcissistic anger when people don't agree. God bless them, they should grow in the Spirit and realize there is a better way that actually honors the Christian faith we profess. Everyone's current understanding is partial on these matters. The purpose of the Bible is to manifest the Love from Jesus in us.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by Scott Free

[The Barbarian]

23 hours ago, Scott Free said:

Both creationist and evolutionist get it wrong. Concerning creationist, the scripture is spiritually appraised and written so all times can have an understanding. Who are we so say what a day to God is or the details of the methods He employs in the process of creation. Maybe the mud of the earth means something different to God similar to how the nations are considered dust.

I think that's right.   If one focuses on such things, one risks losing the message entirely.

 

[The Barbarian]

23 hours ago, FJK said:

Just curious, a question to evolutionists that call themselves Christian:

At what point did that subhuman or prehuman little monkey thing that evolved into humans evolve a soul -or spirit if you prefer- as well?

If you're a Christian, that's easy.   It didn't evolve.    God gave two humans an immortal soul and that changed everything.   When it happened, we can't say, it it doesn't matter.  If it happened to be an earlier species of human, say H. heidelbergensis, would that be a problem for us?

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Scott Free said:

I hear you, the problem is when people are desperate for validation, going into a narcissistic anger when people don't agree. God bless them, they should grow in the Spirit and realize there is a better way that actually honors the Christian faith we profess. Everyone's current understanding is partial on these matters. The purpose of the Bible is to manifest the Love from Jesus in us.  

Today's winner.  Not everyone who disagrees is narcissistic, of course, but disagreement often brings out the worst in us.   "The purpose of the Bible is to manifest the Love from Jesus in us."  I wish I had said that.

 

[Scott Free]

23 hours ago, Starise said:

You seen an ape turn into one of us?

If Adam is a type of Christ and Jesus created through Him new glorified beings from a preexisting inferior race? Why should the "mud" from which Adam was created not be a preexisting human species? Similar to how in God's view the nations are called "dust" then from this God created Israel by bringing forth one special man. Would it be in reason this pattern was present in Adam also?