Having PROVED it is the dead and not the living who are raised at Christs return, what does that change?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

IMO, this makes no sense in comparison to what the Spirit teaches and what the text says. 

Was it the Spirit?  Was it given you by the Spirit or by some man?  


Behold, a mystery to you I tell 
all not DIE 

because as FOR THE LIVING who DIE THE COMMON DEATH up until the last day

WE already KNOW what happens to them.  

If everyone rises on the last day,

THEN 

WHAT IS THE WHOLE CHAPTER ABOUT?


 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

One should try to discern literal and metaphor.

You can think the elect is the army if you want. But all the evidence points to the elect being rescued from danger and being fought for. 

I take everything a literal until I can't, because what is actually written MUST BE TRUE no matter what.  

And I don't think the 'elect' is the army, I think the army consists of THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM.

I believe the 'elect' are the alive and remaining when He returns.  

How do you 'follow Him' to heaven when this body dies?  

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

You really should be more informed about the activities of the enemy and the false doctrines out there. How do you know what's right if you can't discern what's wrong?

How? by what HAPPENS to GODS WORDS....

Pre trib brings into question the Justice of God
Osas brings into question the need to Reverence God
Eternal damnation/no 2nd death brings into question the MERCY of God
Resurrection of the 'living' as the 'dead' on the last day brings into question the very TRUTH of Gods Word.





 

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not the context not the specific topic. You said Jesus was raised from somewhere and preached to some people in hell. Peter said no such thing. I think you read, then make up what you want what you read to say.

I show Scripture for everything, so how that is 'making stuff up' I have no idea.  Are you just projecting on me what you are not able to do yourself? 

Show me your belief from Scripture, from foundation to completion, LIKE I will RIGHT NOW.  

LET'S PROVE WHAT WE SAY ONCE AND FOR today anyway.  

Short description followed by PROOF

Luke 4 from Isa 61 scroll
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind
to set at liberty them that are bruised

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

That maybe a metaphor IN THE NATURAL REALM,

but they are ' LITERAL' events taking place in the SPIRITUAL REALM.

Since we are TALKING BIBLE we have to account for BOTH.   
 

THE FOUNDATION for my belief

So we understand 'bruise' as it relates to the verses up above and who He was speaking of where.

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen3


TO PROVE HE WAS GOING TO DESCEND to them that were dead/those that slept

39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;  so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mt12

MORE PROOF HE KNEW WHERE HE WAS GOING and what would happen
 

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John11

THE subject is LIFE AND DEATH AND THE GRAVE, literal literally THE DEAD IN THE GRAVE at that time, paying the penalty of death

John 6:39-40 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.



HE HAD NOT YET BEEN CRUCIFIED and had not spent the 3 days with them that slept.  
The New Covenant had not taken over so those under the law, slept
The ransom had not been paid so no one had yet been redeemed
The penalty for death from sin was not yet covered under grace and the blood of the Lamb


Romans 5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

Colo 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



Matt 27:50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

1 Cor 15;20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.



7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. 


These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb  Revelation 14:4 

 

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation Revelation 5:9 


And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held Revelation 6:9 


 

36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

37Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

38Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

17:14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

WHERE IS HE?  WHERE HAS HE BEEN?  

SO WHERE ARE PETER AND THOMAS AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE WHO THE FATHER HAS GIVEN?  ARE THEY BEHOLDING HIS GLORY right now?







 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by DeighAnn

[Diaste]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

Yes, but of the DEAD.  TWO RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.  NOT THE LIVING

In a practical sense the physically alive cannot be resurrected. But In Rev 20 the physically dead[beheaded] are resurrected to live and reign with Christ. They are both physically and spiritually alive at that time.

 

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

The DEAD rise when He returns. The DEAD rise from the place of the DEAD, having suffered the common death of the body. 

 ALL of them NOT just their natural body, but ALSO their spiritual body/soul/spirit go to hell.  RICH MAN on one side of the GULF. 

You mean spiritually dead? What of the souls under the altar in Rev 6? Is under the altar the place of the dead?

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

They SEE CORRUPTION.   
They are LEFT IN HELL. 
Those who are left in the grave suffer corruption. 

Except the beheaded ones in Rev 20 who come to life and live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, you mean?

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

The corruption DOESN'T receive immortality when raised up at the return of Christ.                      HOW can those be SOULS THAT NEVER DIE
       if those raised up when Christ returns DON'T receive IMMORTALITY?  

I guess you'll have to pose that question to the beheaded in Rev 20 that came to life and live with Jesus for 1000 years.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

HOW can I say all that and claim it is written?  

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption


The NEVER DIE, the LIVING, FOLLOW HIM to heaven at the common death. They go to be where He is.  HOW do they GET THERE?  They are RAISED UP.  HOW does the resurrection of the dead GO FOR THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED the gift of Salivation?

 

You ask the questions, you get the answers, you ignore the answers, then ask the same questions all over again. 

Paul says the dead are changed when resurrected. They no longer are the corruption of the flesh but the incorruption of spirit and immortal in form and duration. Why is it so hard to understand that God will raise a dead body and make spiritually perfect and immortal? And you should look at all the info:

"the dead IN CHRIST will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

You are not correct. The dead in Christ are raised at His coming and meet Him in the air. These are not those raised, as you say, to repopulate the earth in the kingdom age.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

Their natural 'body is sown in corruption' they FOLLOW HIM.

I'm no rocket scientist, but I can follow basic information.  

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

THEY ARE RAISED IN IMMORTALITY

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

THEY ARE RAISED IN A SPIRITUAL BODY

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

You do see this? Yes? 

 

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

 

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will.

The God of the LIVING, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not the DEAD.
The HOUR in which those in the GRAVE will hear HIS VOICE is the 3 days of Jonah.  Christ is NEVER going back in the 'grave' again.  THAT is the ONLY TIME.  


22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Common death then follow HIM to be where He is.  While the DEAD are buried in the corruption.  



When the NEW COVENANT is brought forth, by the death of the Testor, 
those who DIED under the 'law of sin and death', those who are 'sleeping' are those who will hear His voice.  They are the dead whos' graves will open, Christ the firstfruits of them that slept.  For 3 days, the sign of Jonah, they will hear his voice and NOT THEM only, but all in the grave, all THE ETHNOS will HEAR His voice and the GOOD NEWS and when He ascends, He leads those who were in captivity to death THROUGH SIN, to heaven.  THEY ARE REDEEMED FROM the earth, their RANSOM paid.  
BY ONE MAN DEATH CAME, BY 



25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

 

26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

It seems you are making arguments for two opposing sides. What is it you actually believe?

 

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

The DEAD are given up from hell death and the sea after the DEAD who are judged 'according to their WORKS' not BY FAITH as the living were.  

Two resurrections.  OF THE DEAD. 

Sheep and goats from Matt 25 and the GWT from Rev 20 explain this is not the case. 

 

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

 

 

Tell me, why did PAUL say, when speaking to this very subject...

14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

16And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

Do you think it was because the Jews had that wrong also? 

But no matter what EVERYONE in the WHOLE WORLD believes, the resurrection that takes place when Christ returns, and NONE of you no matter what can EVER GET around is

            THE RESURRECTION WILL BE OF THE DEAD, NOT THE LIVING. 

                            In Christ AND not in Christ DOESN'T MATTER

Incorrect as 1 Thess 4 clearly shows, as well as Rev 20. 

"the dead IN CHRIST will be the first to rise. " makes all the difference.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

        because the DEAD are raised up from the CORRUPTION and

the DECAY doesn't receive IMMORTALITY, just an imperishable body.  

 

Contradicts the scriptures. Imperishable is a synonym for immortal. Look up the Greek word, it's immortal.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

Many resurrections of the NEVER DIE.  

Ask yourself WHY do you keep making those who 'NEVER DIE' .............'THE DEAD'?  

I'm just going with the plain text. You are putting words in my mouth. No one I know thinks the way you do about this matter. 

 

On 10/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, DeighAnn said:

It isn't what is written as I have shown time and again.  COULD I keep giving SCRIPTURE, while you CAN NOT, if it was anything BUT THAT?

Again and again scripture is offered to clarify. You just ignore it in favor of dogma. 

You should realize your conclusion needs a refresh and an update, if not a complete reboot.

[Diaste]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:30 AM, DeighAnn said:

Was it the Spirit?  Was it given you by the Spirit or by some man?  


Behold, a mystery to you I tell 
all not DIE 

because as FOR THE LIVING who DIE THE COMMON DEATH up until the last day

WE already KNOW what happens to them.  

If everyone rises on the last day,

THEN 

WHAT IS THE WHOLE CHAPTER ABOUT?


 

Greatly depends on the definitions and context. I can tell you, your conclusion just barely scratches the surface of the truth.

[Diaste]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, DeighAnn said:

I take everything a literal until I can't, because what is actually written MUST BE TRUE no matter what.  

I hope you don't take parables literally.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, DeighAnn said:

And I don't think the 'elect' is the army, I think the army consists of THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM.

I believe the 'elect' are the alive and remaining when He returns.  

And the dead in Christ, whom are raised first to meet the Lord in the air together with the alive and remaining. Once again, this in incorrect.

On 10/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, DeighAnn said:

How do you 'follow Him' to heaven when this body dies?  
 

That's dogmatic only. The tenor of the dead waiting for redemption is varied. Those facing the beast have a special status after the death of the body, all others wait for judgement at the very last, remote, day.

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How? by what HAPPENS to GODS WORDS....

Pre trib brings into question the Justice of God
Osas brings into question the need to Reverence God
Eternal damnation/no 2nd death brings into question the MERCY of God
Resurrection of the 'living' as the 'dead' on the last day brings into question the very TRUTH of Gods Word.
 

I have no idea what that means.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I show Scripture for everything, so how that is 'making stuff up' I have no idea.  Are you just projecting on me what you are not able to do yourself? 

Show me your belief from Scripture, from foundation to completion, LIKE I will RIGHT NOW.  

LET'S PROVE WHAT WE SAY ONCE AND FOR today anyway.  

Short description followed by PROOF

Luke 4 from Isa 61 scroll
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind
to set at liberty them that are bruised

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

That maybe a metaphor IN THE NATURAL REALM,

but they are ' LITERAL' events taking place in the SPIRITUAL REALM.

Since we are TALKING BIBLE we have to account for BOTH.   

Verse 21: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." This day. Not after the crucifixion and before the resurrection....right then, when He was there. It was ongoing as Jesus was doing all that in His earthly ministry.

The text you quoted didn't say He went to hell, or the grave, or some other place. Jesus was healing the sick, opening the eyes of the blind and causing the deaf to hear; physically and spiritually while in His ministry. 

So are you saying that a captive can only be in some physical bonds? They can't be captives of the mind or doctrine? 

 

 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

THE FOUNDATION for my belief

So we understand 'bruise' as it relates to the verses up above and who He was speaking of where.

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen3

No we don't. You do. You're implying law of 1st mention. It's a logical train wreck.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

TO PROVE HE WAS GOING TO DESCEND to them that were dead/those that slept

39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;  so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Mt12

MORE PROOF HE KNEW WHERE HE WAS GOING and what would happen

 

But here it doesn't say what would happen, just that is the sign and Jesus would remain for 3 days in the heart of the earth.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John11

Never die spiritually is what is meant. Clearly you just can't deal with the beheaded in Rev 20 coming to life and living with Christ. Same as 1 Thess 4 and the dead IN CHRIST, being dead and coming to life. 

Jesus himself said dead people will be brought to life, even if they are beheaded. That can only mean they still have the same body but reassembled, reanimated, incorruptible, and imperishable. 

And you are missing what Jesus actually said. It's two fold: Though he is as dead, yet shall he live, if he believes in Jesus. 

And if that's true, then, and only then, shall he never die. 

The qualification for the 'never die' part is believing in the Resurrection and the Life[Jesus Christ], death, resurrection and then immortality.

 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

THE subject is LIFE AND DEATH AND THE GRAVE, literal literally THE DEAD IN THE GRAVE at that time, paying the penalty of death

John 6:39-40 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 5:21 - For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

I don't know how you don't hear what is written and miss the truth every time. 

Jesus is going to raise up what the Father gave Him, us undoubtably, at the last day. Raise up! That's the resurrection of the dead believers in Christ! 

 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

HE HAD NOT YET BEEN CRUCIFIED and had not spent the 3 days with them that slept.  
The New Covenant had not taken over so those under the law, slept
The ransom had not been paid so no one had yet been redeemed
The penalty for death from sin was not yet covered under grace and the blood of the Lamb

 

You don't know this. You're guessing.

""19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

These spirits were the fallen ones that caused the disruption in mankind prompting God to destroy all flesh. That's the context, the days of Noah, not all the dead from Adam to Jesus. It's the same ones Jude speaks about, 

"6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." 

These are the 'sometime disobedient' ones Peter refers to.

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Romans 5:16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

Colo 2:12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



Matt 27:50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

1 Cor 15;20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.



7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. 


These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb  Revelation 14:4 

 

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation Revelation 5:9 


And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held Revelation 6:9 


 

36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

37Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

38Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

17:14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

I'll need some kind of logical progression from thesis to conclusion. You should not just present evidence with no declaration.

 

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

WHERE IS HE?  WHERE HAS HE BEEN?  

Who? I saw a scattershot posting of scripture but no explanation of what all that leads to.

You can't just dump out your basket and say. "See? There is it."

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SO WHERE ARE PETER AND THOMAS AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE WHO THE FATHER HAS GIVEN?  ARE THEY BEHOLDING HIS GLORY right now?
 

I don't know. I don't think anyone knows. I'm not going to commit a category error and say, "The thief was promised paradise that day, that means we are all promised paradise the day we die." You can if you wish. 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

In a practical sense the physically alive cannot be resurrected. But In Rev 20 the physically dead[beheaded] are resurrected to live and reign with Christ. They are both physically and spiritually alive at that time.

Everyone is still 'breathing' and in a body till the lake of fire.  Either in a natural body or a spiritual body, depending on the realm.

During life in either of the 'realms' everyone is EITHER - in the Lord or not.  

Those of the first resurrection are those 'in the Lord',
those who are not, face the 2nd death.

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

You mean spiritually dead? What of the souls under the altar in Rev 6? Is under the altar the place of the dead?

The souls of the spiritually dead are either in their natural body on the earth or their spiritual body under the earth.

The souls of the spiritually living are either in their natural body on the earth or their spiritual bodies above the earth

Therefore the souls under the altar are above the earth in their spiritual body.

 

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

Except the beheaded ones in Rev 20 who come to life and live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, you mean?

Those who are 'beheaded' NEVER see corruption, never die so never 'come' to life because their soul in their spiritual body RISES when their natural body goes back to dust.  They don't COME TO LIFE that is just how your BIBLE translation reads, but is not how it reads in the original, so it comes across as some kind of 'birth' but it isn't, please go look it up for yourself so we don't have to keep addressing this. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

Paul says the dead are changed when resurrected. They no longer are the corruption of the flesh but the incorruption of spirit and immortal in form and duration. Why is it so hard to understand that God will raise a dead body and make spiritually perfect and immortal? And you should look at all the info:

I agree Paul says the dead are resurrected when Christ returns.  Paul DOESN'T say THE LIVING are resurrected, does he? 

I keep saying the same thing but YOU keep saying something that ISN'T WRITTEN as if it were.   

PAUL SAYS THE DEAD AND SOMEHOW YOU READ 'THE LIVING'.  YOU show where the LIVING are resurrected when Christ returns AND THEN I CAN BELIEVE YOU.  

How is it Paul tells you THE DEAD RISE and you don't believe it?   It's insane.  



EXAMPLE OF WHAT I SEE HAPPENING.  

RED = DEAD

BLUE = LIVING

Paul says when Christ returns the RED rise

but YOU KEEP TELLING ME 

Paul says when Christ returns the BLUE rise.  

So I keep SHOWING YOU Paul says the RED rise,

while you keep telling me I AM WRONG. 

HOW is it I am WRONG because I LIKE PAUL say it is the RED that rise NOT THE BLUE

and you are RIGHT when you say Paul SAYS it is the BLUE who rise???



 

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.




IF IT WERE WRITTEN LIKE THIS, I WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THE LIVING WERE BEING RAISED AND NOT THE DEAD

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE LIVING shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

"the dead IN CHRIST will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

THEY ARE STILL THE DEAD.  You can 'highlight' the IN CHRIST all you want but the fact remains

the unsaved DESCEND at the common death

while the SAVED ascend at the common death

THE SAVED ALREADY ASCENDED at the first death


That leaves THE DEAD as the ONLY ONES who have not yet risen.  



The living go on living with the God of the living HAVING ASCENDED in their living spiritual body and return still alive so they don't need to rise when Christ returns they have already risen.  EVEN YOU YOURSELF admit that.  

but THEN YOU BELIEVE something NOT WRITTEN.  

YOU BELIEVE ALL SPIRITUAL BODIES GO TO HELL.  

ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.  It's NOT that I am not listening, it's that you are not PROVING using Gods Words.  

 

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

You are not correct. The dead in Christ are raised at His coming and meet Him in the air. These are not those raised, as you say, to repopulate the earth in the kingdom age.

The LIVING IN CHRIST have followed Him to be where He is at the common death.   

AGREED or DISAGREE?


He is at the right hand of the Father.

Agreed or disagree?
 

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Sheep and goats from Matt 25 and the GWT from Rev 20 explain this is not the case. 

what GOATS are there amongst THE SAVED?

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Incorrect as 1 Thess 4 clearly shows, as well as Rev 20. 

"the dead IN CHRIST will be the first to rise. " makes all the difference.

WE NEED YOU TO ADDRESS THESE VERSES

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


NOT AWAIT HIS RETURN, BUT FOLLOW HIM.


 

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Contradicts the scriptures. Imperishable is a synonym for immortal. Look up the Greek word, it's immortal.

Imperishable EXCEPT for the 2nd death

Immortal EXCEPT for the 2nd death

BUT no matter what............ the DECAY doesn't receive IMMORTALITY.  

neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

so no one WHO RISES up from UNDER THE EARTH rises up with immortality. 


an 'immortal' body can be killed in the lake of fire, just cant be killed by 'man'

someone with IMMORTALITY ISN'T GOING INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, they are going to eat the from the Tree of Life.   



immortal facing the 2nd death
 

immortality FIRST RESURRECTION, not facing the 2nd death