Having PROVED it is the dead and not the living who are raised at Christs return, what does that change?

[DeighAnn]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm just going with the plain text. You are putting words in my mouth. No one I know thinks the way you do about this matter. 

but you all know the MYSTERY OF INIQUITY has been working for the past 2000 years RIGHT?

AM I SAYING anything that ISN'T WRITTEN???

Are you?

 

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Again and again scripture is offered to clarify. You just ignore it in favor of dogma. 

You should realize your conclusion needs a refresh and an update, if not a complete reboot.

I know when I stand in front of God whos words I will be using, WITHOUT EXCUSE or explanation.  

BETTER TO BE WRONG under that condition

Then WRONG because of choosing the words of man over them

by calling the living the dead

or

separating 'souls' from their bodies

or 

having all spiritual bodies remain in the corruption TILL the last day

or 

having CORPSES RISE for the eternal body

or

having the decay inherit IMMORTALITY


 

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

And the dead in Christ, whom are raised first to meet the Lord in the air together with the alive and remaining. Once again, this in incorrect.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

THEY ARE NOT IN CHRIST. 


THEY ARE SIMPLY THE DEAD. 

They are not a part of the MYSTERY about NOT ALL DIE as they are already dead.  

 

[DeighAnn]

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

Verse 21: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." This day. Not after the crucifixion and before the resurrection....right then, when He was there. It was ongoing as Jesus was doing all that in His earthly ministry.

The text you quoted didn't say He went to hell, or the grave, or some other place. Jesus was healing the sick, opening the eyes of the blind and causing the deaf to hear; physically and spiritually while in His ministry. 

So are you saying that a captive can only be in some physical bonds? They can't be captives of the mind or doctrine? 

that DAY was

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

is the hour of temptation just an hour?   We still have to RIGHTLY DIVIDE don't we?  


 

I am saying THEY CAN BE PHYSICALLY, AND SPIRITUALLY(mind) and captive in hell paying the penalty of sin if died under the law.  

So the ONE WAY doesn't stop another way from being just as true. 

  

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

But here it doesn't say what would happen, just that is the sign and Jesus would remain for 3 days in the heart of the earth.

your choice

 

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

Jesus himself said dead people will be brought to life, even if they are beheaded. That can only mean they still have the same body but reassembled, reanimated, incorruptible, and imperishable. 

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

And you are missing what Jesus actually said. It's two fold: Though he is as dead, yet shall he live, if he believes in Jesus. 

And if that's true, then, and only then, shall he never die. 

The qualification for the 'never die' part is believing in the Resurrection and the Life[Jesus Christ], death, resurrection and then immortality.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


 

[DeighAnn]

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

Never die spiritually is what is meant. Clearly you just can't deal with the beheaded in Rev 20 coming to life and living with Christ. Same as 1 Thess 4 and the dead IN CHRIST, being dead and coming to life. 

their head is buried and goes back to dust

their body is buried and goes back to dust

the angels come and get their 'next realm' spiritual 'whole being' body soul spirit and they go to heaven

THEY NEVER DIE.  Only their flesh and blood body goes back to dust.  




 

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

You don't know this. You're guessing.

""19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

These spirits were the fallen ones that caused the disruption in mankind prompting God to destroy all flesh. That's the context, the days of Noah, not all the dead from Adam to Jesus. It's the same ones Jude speaks about, 

"6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." 

These are the 'sometime disobedient' ones Peter refers to.

Are you saying THE GRAVES WERE NOT opened?  

 

21 hours ago, Diaste said:

That's the resurrection of the dead believers in Christ! 

SOME DAY, AND SOME WAY YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH it being

THE DEAD THAT RISE.

 

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



Just like it is written. 




WHEN the KINGDOM of Heaven returns to the earth the INHABITANTS of the earth will be 'as the angels in heaven'.   

We will all be in the SPIRITUAL REALM and STILL there will be those who are saved and those who are not.  Not until the lake of fire when THE DEAD stand in judgment will be finally be rid of the dead.  


immortal facing the 2nd death

immortality NOT facing the 2nd death




Say what you will, I don't have SOULS returning from heaven to RE POSSESS A CORPSE that will be raised in glory....  

Why I am the only one who sees that as UNRIGHTEOUS I have no idea.  Maybe many are called but few are chosen is correct after all.  Maybe wide is the way to destruction and narrow the way to life....

[DeighAnn]

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'll need some kind of logical progression from thesis to conclusion. You should not just present evidence with no declaration.

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The GIFT ISN'T waiting to come, THE GIFT CAME.  




15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

HOW did GOD SHOW 'death' had been defeated?  WAS IT WITH the GRAVES of the saints that were opened?  Or Christ walking around?

Does any of that SOUND FUTURE?   

Do you think THIS PRAYER hasn't been answered for 2000 years?

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.



Do you think sin brought death in this world/age


but forgiveness of sin DIDN'T bring life, IT JUST REMAINED EXACTLY LIKE IT WAS BEFORE?

Under the OLD TEST everyone was rising on the last day

UNDER the NEW TEST everyone is rising on the last day? 


SO THE POINT of HIS RESURRECTION is WHAT exactly?

What do you see the 'gift of salvation' being for? 

since God was the God of the Living...Abraham...BEFORE Christ was risen...

22 hours ago, Diaste said:

Who? I saw a scattershot posting of scripture but no explanation of what all that leads to.

You can't just dump out your basket and say. "See? There is it."

Sorry.   Lots on my mind

Where is Christ right now?  Where has He been since He ascended?  




 

[Diaste]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The GIFT ISN'T waiting to come, THE GIFT CAME. 

Yes, the remission of sin by the shedding of blood covered the original sin of Adam, Jesus shed blood covers that so that we are deemed righteous. 

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

HOW did GOD SHOW 'death' had been defeated?  WAS IT WITH the GRAVES of the saints that were opened?  Or Christ walking around?

Obviously.

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

Does any of that SOUND FUTURE?   

It's past, present, and future. All for all time.

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

Do you think THIS PRAYER hasn't been answered for 2000 years?

For some it wasn't answered for 4000 years. Adam and Eve knew. Noah knew, Enoch, Elijah. In fact it's even worse than that. 

"All these people died in faith, without having received the things they were promised. However, they saw them and welcomed them from afar. And they acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth."

God's promises can be a long time in coming for us. But the context is the resurrection. If one is resurrected at all, the resurrection is still resurrection.

Or do you imagine all those in the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11 missed the promise of the resurrection because Jesus hadn't come yet?

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Do you think sin brought death in this world/age


but forgiveness of sin DIDN'T bring life, IT JUST REMAINED EXACTLY LIKE IT WAS BEFORE?

Of course it remained the same. You think there was no grace, forgiveness, redemption, translation, or relationship with God and Jesus in the OT? Nothing has changed. You seem to think the OT is not the same as the NT. A wise man once told me; "The OT is the NT, hidden; the NT is the OT, revealed." 

This is factual as all the proof of everything we trust and believe about God, Jesus, faith, grace, relationship, redemption, resurrection, and eternal life are all quoted by Jesus and the apostles from the OT!

There's nothing new here, it's just the veil has been torn asunder and ripped away.

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

Under the OLD TEST everyone was rising on the last day

UNDER the NEW TEST everyone is rising on the last day? 

SO THE POINT of HIS RESURRECTION is WHAT exactly?

Without God and Jesus overcoming death and the grave, no one get resurrected. It just so happens the prophecy could be given millennia ago as God and Jesus always retained the power to overcome death, from before the beginning.

You're not thinking that somehow the power over death only magically showed up at the resurrection of Jesus, are you?

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

What do you see the 'gift of salvation' being for? 

since God was the God of the Living...Abraham...BEFORE Christ was risen...

You seem to be missing some critical understanding. Jesus IS God. He made all things. He was alive before He was born of a virgin. And what do you not get about salvation of the faithful in the OT?

You think Noah wasn't found to be faithful and righteous and worthy of life and resurrection because Jesus hadn't been born yet? Hadn't gone to the cross? Hadn't been resurrected and ascended? 

Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. 

How was it that Enoch and Elijah were taken up by God while still alive, way before Jesus was born, lived, died and lived again?

The gift of salvation was always a gift and it was already given to everyone, as in the verse you quoted at the beginning; which includes everyone that ever lived, because Jesus is eternal, and this was the plan from the beginning. 

Ever notice how it's said of Jesus:

1 Peter 1

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

This was always going to be the Way. It's not 'new'.

"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain.a"

You can't have that book of life if the Lamb had not been slain already. It is the book of life from the very beginning, at the foundation; a book of life belonging to a slain Lamb.

Again, not 'new'. Always was, always is, always will be.

On 10/9/2023 at 5:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

 

Sorry.   Lots on my mind

Where is Christ right now?  Where has He been since He ascended?  
 

Right hand of the Father. That's where He was, that's where He is.