Christ's commandments for his witnesses

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Not seeing where the two witnesses give the order concerning fire it says here they are given power

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

And if any man will hurt them it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:

And you are under the impression this is Bic lighter stuff?

And not his word?

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

Its like two things, see the full verse

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Not to mention they are two prophets 

Psalm 105:14 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes;

Psalm 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

That is why it says if any man will to hurt them
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Thats why its says, he must "in this manner" be killed

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth

He kills them by the words of his mouth

I have slain them by the words of my mouth

And he has spoken by the Prophets, and as it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: 

So do my prophets no harm

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

According to revelation ,the Lord of the two witnesses was crucified.

Are you saying it was Elohim that was crucified?

 

Revelation 11

⁸ Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

 

And if Jesus is their Lord,then they should be doing what their Lord commanded them to do.

Or do you say they should do the opposite of everything their Lord commands them?

 

Mathew 24:48-51

But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’

And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.

The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate.

Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

If in fact their Lord was crucified,as scripture says.Then I would hope they would do exactly as their master commands them.

Yes Jesus is their Lord so what's wrong if Elohim empower them to destroy people who want to destroy them ONLY ?

[Shilohsfoal]

10 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Not seeing where the two witnesses give the order concerning fire it says here they are given power

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

And if any man will hurt them it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:

And you are under the impression this is Bic lighter stuff?

And not his word?

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

Its like two things, see the full verse

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Not to mention they are two prophets 

Psalm 105:14 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes;

Psalm 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

That is why it says if any man will to hurt them
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Thats why its says, he must "in this manner" be killed

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth

He kills them by the words of his mouth

I have slain them by the words of my mouth

And he has spoken by the Prophets, and as it says

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: 

So do my prophets no harm

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only word coming out of their mouths to devour their enemies is the word fire.

Scripture does not say they speak the word of God.Only the word fire.

And yes,they have power just as Pontis Pilate had power given to him.

 

John 19:11

Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

 

Do you have any verses where their master Jesus Christ has commanded them to torment or kill anyone like they do?

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

No one seems to have any verses that commands us to kill and torment people like Jesus's two witnesses do.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The only word coming out of their mouths to devour their enemies is the word fire.

Scripture does not say they speak the word of God.Only the word fire.

God speaks by the prophets, by His annointed,  You have two prophets, or two anointed ones. They speak Gods words, that is what they do. Jesus was also a prophet Deut 18:18

They speak what is commanded by God even the crucified Lord shows the same

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As he has spoken by His prophets, He has spoken to us by His Son, the anointed one

The LORD says, "I have slain/killed them" by the words of my mouth Hosea 6:5

And because these do He says,

The LORD says,  Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. Jerm 5:14...

And again He says,

The LORD says, "I will make my words in thy mouth fire"... He does this both in and by them

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

And by the prophets by whom he has spoken He says

 I have slain/killed them by the words of my mouth

 

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And yes,they have power just as Pontis Pilate had power given to him.

Jesus as the two witnesses is also was a witness, who witnessed a good confession before Pilate, glad you brought it up.

1 Titus 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession

When Jesus was finished and his hour had come he knew they would take him and by wicked hands crucify him. 

As that power was given to Pilate it is in the same way given the beast when the two witnesses/prophets/anointed ones finish their testimony, (not before) its given the beast to make war, overcome and kill them at a certain time, even as the Lord Jesus who was crucified when the time came

At the proper time, but before that time they still hated him and wanted to kill him but he had work to finish

John 7:30 Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

We see the two witnesses prophesying for a certain time (1,260 days), and only when they too were finished, and their hour comes not before, but only when they have finished their testimony

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And just as with Jesus when his time to die was come, the same here could say to the beast, "You have no power over us if it were not given to you from above".

 

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

John 19:11

Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

Again See Rev:11:7 The beast would have no power over them to kill the two witnesses if it was not given the beast either.

But before that time, try killing God's anointed before they are finished with the work given them to do

And then after the beast kills them watch them rise again from the dead as thei Lord did and ascend to heaven in a cloud

Rev 11: 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

As the Lord was crucified (and buried, unlike them) and raise to life again and ascended to heaven in a cloud also

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

While his disciples (who are his friends, not his enemies) looked on

Along side of "these two" who showed up

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said,Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Do you have any verses where their master Jesus Christ has commanded them to torment or kill anyone like they do?

 

 

Also an aside note on these two tormenting or vexing those on earth

When Saul had evil intentions towards David to do him harm (He being a prophet Acts 2:30-31)  It says,

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

So someone could be tormented, vexed or troubled by the LORD's own doing as it pertains to His prophets 

And so just because those who dwell upon earth are tormented by these two prophets does not mean the two witnesses are doing the tormenting/ vexing. 

One could easily imagine a world full of people so wicked that when they come in contact with such its like demon possessed being splashed with holy water or something. In that sense,  and in that they are vexed or tormented by their presence.

For example, one can take a mirror of the one vexing/torment of a wicked people subject to righteousness and turn the same around to show a righteous man dwelling in a place that is exceedingly wicked (as was Sodom) and find that even they are tormented/vexed in their presence also

2 Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed/tormented his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

Unrighteousness vexes/torments the righteous souls as the righteouessness can be vexing/tormenting to the wicked, there is no fellowing between the two. 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Also, I forgot to add (since you keep asking) the closest thing I can find to killing anyone is shown in a parable and worded this way against his enemies.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them,

bring hither, and slay them before me.

[RdJ]

22 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So we here did Christ command his witnesses to kill and torment other people?

 

You know Jesus.The guy who came preaching the gospel and was killed because they hated him.He didn't do what they said he supposed to do and so they rejected him and his word.

Where did Jesus command anyone to kill and torment other people?

Nowhere when He was on earth, because it was the acceptable year of the Lord, grace time, but Jesus is the Angel of the Lord who told Moses to kill and one witness is maybe Moses and trib time is the day of wrath from God.

Numbers 31 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the sons of Israel; afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, so that they may [a]go against Midian to execute the Lord’s vengeance on Midian. 4 You shall send a thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel to the war.” 5 So there were selected from the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 And Moses sent them, a thousand from each tribe, to the war, and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war with them, and the holy implements and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. 7 So they made war against Midian, just as the Lord had commanded Moses, and they killed every male.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Renskedejonge

[RdJ]

John 20

22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

 

Acts 5

 

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, AFlameOfFire said:

God speaks by the prophets, by His annointed,  You have two prophets, or two anointed ones. They speak Gods words, that is what they do. Jesus was also a prophet Deut 18:18

They speak what is commanded by God even the crucified Lord shows the same

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

As he has spoken by His prophets, He has spoken to us by His Son, the anointed one

The LORD says, "I have slain/killed them" by the words of my mouth Hosea 6:5

And because these do He says,

The LORD says,  Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. Jerm 5:14...

And again He says,

The LORD says, "I will make my words in thy mouth fire"... He does this both in and by them

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

And by the prophets by whom he has spoken He says

 I have slain/killed them by the words of my mouth

 

Jesus as the two witnesses is also was a witness, who witnessed a good confession before Pilate, glad you brought it up.

1 Titus 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession

When Jesus was finished and his hour had come he knew they would take him and by wicked hands crucify him. 

As that power was given to Pilate it is in the same way given the beast when the two witnesses/prophets/anointed ones finish their testimony, (not before) its given the beast to make war, overcome and kill them at a certain time, even as the Lord Jesus who was crucified when the time came

At the proper time, but before that time they still hated him and wanted to kill him but he had work to finish

John 7:30 Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

We see the two witnesses prophesying for a certain time (1,260 days), and only when they too were finished, and their hour comes not before, but only when they have finished their testimony

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

And just as with Jesus when his time to die was come, the same here could say to the beast, "You have no power over us if it were not given to you from above".

 

Again See Rev:11:7 The beast would have no power over them to kill the two witnesses if it was not given the beast either.

But before that time, try killing God's anointed before they are finished with the work given them to do

And then after the beast kills them watch them rise again from the dead as thei Lord did and ascend to heaven in a cloud

Rev 11: 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

As the Lord was crucified (and buried, unlike them) and raise to life again and ascended to heaven in a cloud also

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

While his disciples (who are his friends, not his enemies) looked on

Along side of "these two" who showed up

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said,Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

 

Also an aside note on these two tormenting or vexing those on earth

When Saul had evil intentions towards David to do him harm (He being a prophet Acts 2:30-31)  It says,

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

So someone could be tormented, vexed or troubled by the LORD's own doing as it pertains to His prophets 

And so just because those who dwell upon earth are tormented by these two prophets does not mean the two witnesses are doing the tormenting/ vexing. 

One could easily imagine a world full of people so wicked that when they come in contact with such its like demon possessed being splashed with holy water or something. In that sense,  and in that they are vexed or tormented by their presence.

For example, one can take a mirror of the one vexing/torment of a wicked people subject to righteousness and turn the same around to show a righteous man dwelling in a place that is exceedingly wicked (as was Sodom) and find that even they are tormented/vexed in their presence also

2 Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed/tormented his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

Unrighteousness vexes/torments the righteous souls as the righteouessness can be vexing/tormenting to the wicked, there is no fellowing between the two. 

 

I know what a prophet is.

Balaam was a prophet.

2 Peter 2

 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

² And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

³ And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

⁴ For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

 

⁵ And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

⁶ And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

⁷ And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

⁸ (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

⁹ The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

¹⁰ But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities

 

¹¹ Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

¹² But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

¹³ And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

¹⁴ Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

¹⁵ Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

¹⁶ But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

¹⁷ These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

¹⁸ For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

¹⁹ While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

²⁰ For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

²¹ For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

²² But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

The man of sins armed forces occupy Jerusalem for 42 months, has many prophets in its ranks.

revelation 11

 

² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Renskedejonge said:

Nowhere when He was on earth, because it was the acceptable year of the Lord, grace time, but Jesus is the Angel of the Lord who told Moses to kill and one witness is maybe Moses and trib time is the day of wrath from God.

Numbers 31 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the sons of Israel; afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, so that they may [a]go against Midian to execute the Lord’s vengeance on Midian. 4 You shall send a thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel to the war.” 5 So there were selected from the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 And Moses sent them, a thousand from each tribe, to the war, and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war with them, and the holy implements and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. 7 So they made war against Midian, just as the Lord had commanded Moses, and they killed every male.

 

The time of God's wrath is after the two witnesses are finished having their own wrath upon the nations.

The two witnesses have ascended into heaven where it burns with a fervent heat at the time of God's wrath.

 

 

 

Revelation 11

 

¹⁸ And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.