The timing of the battle of Armageddon

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

So in both events “the nations” are gathered.  But God uses certain key words like “Gog and Magog” to direct your attention to the battle shown in Ezekiel.  But in Revelation 20 we are given by God “the timing of when”that prophecy shall occur.

God did not use the key words “Gog and Magog” to describe the battle of Armageddon.

That's true. Is your argument, since Gog of Magog is not named at Armageddon, then Gog of Magog isn't at the battle of Armageddon?

If so, that doesn't follow.  There is enough evidence to show Eze 38 is the final battle in the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and not after the 1000 years.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

17 minutes ago, Diaste said:

That's true. Is your argument, since Gog of Magog is not named at Armageddon, then Gog of Magog isn't at the battle of Armageddon?

If so, that doesn't follow.  There is enough evidence to show Eze 38 is the final battle in the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and not after the 1000 years.

 

No it is not just that, there is more to it than just that.  Ezekiel 37 shows the “resurrection of the saints,”which happens at the “last day”per the words of Jesus.

Then Gods Israel is brought into the land to reign on earth with Christ for a thousand years.  If you notice in Ezekiel 38 Israel is dwelling in the land “safely and at rest,” without walls, or gates and bars.

This is describing “the time of rest”for Gods Israel for the thousand year reign on earth with Christ.

Modern day Israel is not dwelling safely, and they are behind walls, gates, and bars to protect them.

 

 

[luigi]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:34 PM, Stewardofthemystery said:

Many confuse the battle of Gog and Magog with the battle of Armageddon, but they are not the same event.  The battle of Armageddon happens “before” the thousand year reign of Christ, and the battle of Gog and Magog happens “after” the thousand year reign of Christ.

Let us look at some scriptures concerning the battle of the great day of God Almighty, or the battle of Armageddon to confirm the timing of this end time event.  Revelation 16 is the only place where the phrase “the battle of Armageddon” is mentioned, but this event is also called “the battle of the great day of God Almighty.”  The timing of when this battle occurs is during the period of God’s wrath being poured out on “the earth”, as is mentioned in Revelation 16:1.

 

So let's go to Revelation 16 picking up at verse 12….

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of “the earth” and of “the whole world,” to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.  (notice above the kings of “the whole world”)

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done.”

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and “the cities of the nations fell:” and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.” 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (note the cities of the nations fell)

 

So this event takes place during the time of God’s wrath, and right when the 7th angel pours out God's wrath; and then we hear “It is done”.

So now let's go to other places in scripture to get more insight into this final end time battle.

Here in Revelation 19 we see mention of the same end time battle, again notice the timing…

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (notice the mention of treading the winepress and the wrath of God)

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (note “all men” both small and great)

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and

them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (notice they are cast into the fire)

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” (note this ties into Matthew 24:27-28)

So again we see this event takes place during the period of God’s wrath, and this wrath is upon “ all men, both free and bond, both small and great.” as it says in verse 18 

Also notice in verse 15 we see Christ is the one who “ treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

That will give us more scripture to confirm “the timing” of this event. 

Isaiah 63:3-6…. 3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.” (note “the people” are tread down in His wrath)

Again confirming the timing in Revelation 14 in connection with the winepress of God’s wrath…..

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.(notice this is speaking of the harvest) 

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.(notice here the Son reaps a harvest)

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (notice the other angel with a sharp sickle reaps “the vine of the earth”, which is then to be cast into the winepress of God’s wrath)

Notice above the mention of the sharp sickle, and the Son is told to reap one group, and the angel was told to reap another group.  This confirms “the timing of the harvest” at the end of the world.  Notice what Jesus says about sending his angels to reap at the harvest at “the end of the world” in Matthew 13…

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is “the end of the world”; and “the reapers are the angels.”

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.(notice it is “the children” of the wicked one who are burned in the fire)

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”(notice it is those out of His Kingdom that "do iniquity" that go into the fire)

 

Notice all the tares, all that work iniquity, all the children of the wicked one are cast into the fire; not just a single man called Antichrist, and not just a single man called the false prophet, but ((((all)))) that offend and “work iniquity.”

This “harvest time” is also mentioned here by Jesus in Matthew 25…

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be “gathered all nations:” and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.”

Notice the fate of all those who are separated on the left….

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (notice (((all))) on the left are cast into everlasting fire.)

This time of “gathering the nations” to judgment all speaks of the same end time event…

Zephaniah 3:8 “Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to “gather the nations”, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for “all the earth” shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. (notice “all the earth” is devoured by fire)

3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will also gather “all nations”, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. (again notice “all nations” are gathered)

Continued in verse 9

……9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord. (notice the mighty ones of the Lord, or angels come down)

12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge “all the heathen” round about.(again notice “all” the heathen are judged)

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.(this again confirms the timing)

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. (6th seal signs)

16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion,(Romans 11:6) and utter his voice from

Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.”

Now to Isaiah 13…6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:(Luke 21:26) 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.(notice the Lord is destroying “sinners” as we saw before)

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.(again this confirms the timing)

11 And I will punish “the world” for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”

Again notice who the Lord is destroying in this end time battle. It is all “the sinners” in the world, it is “the wicked”, it is those who “work iniquity,” it is all “the children” of that wicked one.

Many people think this end time battle is going to be held on a small parcel of land, and fought with conventional weapons.  But I believe this event is clearly speaking of the end time harvest of not only the saints, but also the total destruction of sinners from off the earth. 

Psalm 110:5-6 “The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath. He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies, he shall wound the heads over many countries.”  

An interesting correlation I notice is that the saints are those first harvested in Revelation 14, and are those with whom the wrong doers of the world go to battle with at Armageddon in Revelation 16. As such, it is therefore important for the right doers at Armageddon to keep their faith/clothes in doing right, when the wrong doers of the world come to kill them there. Those who keep their clothes at Armageddon will therefore be those first harvested when it is done. Did not Jesus say something like "It is done" when he was crucified by the wrong doers?

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

No it is not just that, there is more to it than just that.  Ezekiel 37 shows the “resurrection of the saints,”which happens at the “last day”per the words of Jesus.

Then Gods Israel is brought into the land to reign on earth with Christ for a thousand years.  If you notice in Ezekiel 38 Israel is dwelling in the land “safely and at rest,” without walls, or gates and bars.

This is describing “the time of rest”for Gods Israel for the thousand year reign on earth with Christ.

Modern day Israel is not dwelling safely, and they are behind walls, gates, and bars to protect them.

Yes. I have heard a few people equate Eze 38:8, "and all now dwell securely" to the millennium reign, reasoning the only time in all history Israel would " dwell securely...living without walls or bars or gates..." is if this is in the Millennium Kingdom

However, for me, this glides past the rest of Ezekiel 38:8, without so much as a glance.

"After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations,"

"In the latter years" isn't  referring to the Millennium Reign. 'Latter years' is taken to mean the last days or end of the age in all other passages, before the return of Jesus.

"a land that has recovered from war," For 1000 years there will be no war in the Millennium. Before Israel was returned to Canaan there was constant war in the land. 

"whose people were gathered from many nations" What is the context here? If this is building on Ezekiel 37 then it's the 1948 reformation of Israel and not referring to the Gathering of the elect, all dwelling in New Jerusalem. Since this is in the 'latter years' the context must be after the reformation of Israel and before the Millennium.

"which had long been desolate." For 1000 years in the Millennium, the land will not be desolate will it? I guess perhaps that's the case but I don't see it. This also must be referring to the 'latter years' Gog invasion and the desolation of the land before the latter years and the Gog action. 

"living without walls or bars or gates" New Jerusalem literally has walls and gates.

"The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates" Rev 21

So, since this is all fact, there must be another way to understand 'all now dwell securely.' and I think it's right there in the BSB with the idea of 'secure' not 'safe'.

The Nation of Israel trusts they are secure. For example, Gen 34:25

"Three days later, while they were still in pain, two of Jacob’s sons (Dinah’s brothers Simeon and Levi) took their swords, went into the unsuspecting city, and slaughtered every male."

This is the same word as in Ezekiel 38:8, and here it's "unsuspecting", even rendered as 'boldly' by the KJV in Gen 34:25.

Ezekiel 38 is the latter years, and Israel dwells in a sense of secureness, trusting they are safe, not in a state of total safety from all harm. 

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

28 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Yes. I have heard a few people equate Eze 38:8, "and all now dwell securely" to the millennium reign, reasoning the only time in all history Israel would " dwell securely...living without walls or bars or gates..." is if this is in the Millennium Kingdom

However, for me, this glides past the rest of Ezekiel 38:8, without so much as a glance.

"After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations,"

"In the latter years" isn't  referring to the Millennium Reign. 'Latter years' is taken to mean the last days or end of the age in all other passages, before the return of Jesus.

"a land that has recovered from war," For 1000 years there will be no war in the Millennium. Before Israel was returned to Canaan there was constant war in the land. 

"whose people were gathered from many nations" What is the context here? If this is building on Ezekiel 37 then it's the 1948 reformation of Israel and not referring to the Gathering of the elect, all dwelling in New Jerusalem. Since this is in the 'latter years' the context must be after the reformation of Israel and before the Millennium.

"which had long been desolate." For 1000 years in the Millennium, the land will not be desolate will it? I guess perhaps that's the case but I don't see it. This also must be referring to the 'latter years' Gog invasion and the desolation of the land before the latter years and the Gog action. 

"living without walls or bars or gates" New Jerusalem literally has walls and gates.

"The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates" Rev 21

So, since this is all fact, there must be another way to understand 'all now dwell securely.' and I think it's right there in the BSB with the idea of 'secure' not 'safe'.

The Nation of Israel trusts they are secure. For example, Gen 34:25

"Three days later, while they were still in pain, two of Jacob’s sons (Dinah’s brothers Simeon and Levi) took their swords, went into the unsuspecting city, and slaughtered every male."

This is the same word as in Ezekiel 38:8, and here it's "unsuspecting", even rendered as 'boldly' by the KJV in Gen 34:25.

Ezekiel 38 is the latter years, and Israel dwells in a sense of secureness, trusting they are safe, not in a state of total safety from all harm. 

 

 

If you look at prophecy as a whole, what God had promised to Israel, from the blessing and the curses.  You will see God had promised His saints “a time of rest.” This is also shown in Hebrews …

Hebrews 4:1-11

King James Version

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

This is like a big Sabbath rest of a thousand years, as it is written, a thousand years is as “ a day” to the Lord.

Also if you look at prophecy, God had warned Israel that he would scatter them to the nations and they would be persecuted from Nation to Nation. But in the end, God would gather them back together into the land He had promised them.

Deuteronomy 30:3

That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

 

This time of rest and gathering of the people from the nations is also shown here …

 

Isaiah 11:6-12

King James Version

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and “his rest shall be glorious.”

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”

 

 

[Diaste]

23 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

If you look at prophecy as a whole, what God had promised to Israel, from the blessing and the curses.  You will see God had promised His saints “a time of rest.” This is also shown in Hebrews …

Hebrews 4:1-11

King James Version

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

This is like a big Sabbath rest of a thousand years, as it is written, a thousand years is as “ a day” to the Lord.

Also if you look at prophecy, God had warned Israel that he would scatter them to the nations and they would be persecuted from Nation to Nation. But in the end, God would gather them back together into the land He had promised them.

Deuteronomy 30:3

That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

 

This time of rest and gathering of the people from the nations is also shown here …

 

Isaiah 11:6-12

King James Version

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and “his rest shall be glorious.”

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”

 

It seems you're heavily invested in what you believe. 

Thanks for discussion, I'm going to bow out.

Blessings.

[Stewardofthemystery]

53 minutes ago, Diaste said:

It seems you're heavily invested in what you believe. 

Thanks for discussion, I'm going to bow out.

Blessings.

We all speak what we believe, some speak lies because they have believed a lying spirit, some speak the Truth because they have believed the Spirit of Truth.

2 Corinthians 4:13

We having the same “spirit of faith,” according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak

 

Blessings to you as well.

[The Light]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:27 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

What??????

Generally, only 5 question marks are used to indicate total disbelief.

Is six question marks carrying some special emphasis unbeknownst to the masses?????

[Stewardofthemystery]

16 minutes ago, The Light said:

Generally, only 5 question marks are used to indicate total disbelief.

Is six question marks carrying some special emphasis unbeknownst to the masses?????

Are you serious???? Lol 😂 

This must be some strange new doctrine that is new to me. 🙁

[The Light]

5 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Are you serious???? Lol 😂 

This must be some strange new doctrine that is new to me. 🙁

And now you hit me with a happy face followed by the sad face. I'm just thankful that you didn't follow that happy face with five sad faces. Boy that would have said it all.

And nice job on the thread by the way. I agree with you. . . . .