Questions for evolution believers

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is no commonality.  The "prophet" of Islam was a thief, murderer, rapist and human trafficker who married a six year old when he was 52.  These things are ALL confirmed in the Quran.  Jesus is the son of God who came to earth born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and sacrificed Himself for the salvation of man.  He taught love, peace and forgiveness.

Perhaps you need to spend some more time in the OT.    Granted, Jesus came with a new covenant that ruled out some of the atrocities in the OT.    But Christians often didn't listen.   There are few sects that have not engaged in atrocities against those who did nothing other than disagree with them.    The wise man sits at the back of the church and says "have mercy on me, a sinner."

[RV_Wizard]

9 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

The wise man sits at the back of the church and says "have mercy on me, a sinner."

You DO sometimes say things with which I can agree.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:06 AM, Eli1 said:

What an odd question.

A Creator has all the right and means to create us through evolution and judge us.

The limit is only in your mind and worldview.  

Not only does scripture NOT support evolution, but all known science much better supports a creation model as opposed to an evolution model.

[The Barbarian]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Not only does scripture NOT support evolution

Doesn't support protons or X-rays, either.   A lot of things that are true are not supported by scripture.  

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

but all known science much better supports a creation model as opposed to an evolution model.

Well, let's ask a YE creationist who actually knows about the evidence:

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution. (Technically, they could also be deluded or lying, but that seems rather uncharitable to say. Oops.)

Creationist students, listen to me very carefully: There is evidence for evolution, and evolution is an extremely successful scientific theory. That doesn't make it ultimately true, and it doesn't mean that there could not possibly be viable alternatives. It is my own faith choice to reject evolution, because I believe the Bible reveals true information about the history of the earth that is fundamentally incompatible with evolution. I am motivated to understand God's creation from what I believe to be a biblical, creationist perspective. Evolution itself is not flawed or without evidence. Please don't be duped into thinking that somehow evolution itself is a failure.

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood  The Truth About Evolution

And...

 Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected  macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact. It certainly CANNOT be said that traditional creation theory expected (predicted) any of these fossil finds.

YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise Toward a Creationist Understanding of Transitional Forms

[RV_Wizard]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood  The Truth About Evolution

And...

YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise Toward a Creationist Understanding of Transitional Forms

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.” << God.

[The Barbarian]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

but all known science much better supports a creation model as opposed to an evolution model.

(Two YE creationists, familiar with the science, show that belief is wrong)

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

“For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

And even though they admit that science supports evolution, they prefer to assume that reference is about a literal history, not an allegory as most Christians understand it.

They are honest enough to admit the fact.  

Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

Dr. Wood, YE creationist

Edited December 18, 2023 by The Barbarian

[RV_Wizard]

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

(Two YE creationists, familiar with the science, show that belief is wrong)

And even though they admit that science supports evolution, they prefer to assume that reference is about a literal history, not an allegory as most Christians understand it.

You have the choice to believe the word of God or not.  I do.  You do not.  There is nothing allegorical in the writings of Genesis.  Even if the days were a million years long, the sequence of life precludes evolution.  It is not possible to read Genesis one and align it with evolution.  You choose to disbelieve that bible is true, I choose to believe it.

Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and in evolution has a firm understanding of neither.

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

They are honest enough to admit the fact.  

Evolution fails as a scientific theory because the driving force of evolution, benevolent mutations, has never been shown to advance a species.  Such a force couldn't be responsible for all the biodiversity on earth and not be replicable.  It's religion.  It's a belief in the unprovable through faith.  

I do agree that evolution isn't going away.  To a large part, Christianity is going away.  The faith is becoming distorted with false teaching.  Homosexuals are active pastors.  Adulterers are religious leaders.  The Bible is and will continue to be attacked on all fronts until the number of those who believe will be small.  In time, a vast majority of people will buy into the lies of evolution you promote.  It will be a hollow victory, because in the end it leads to destruction.  Just read the Revelation.

Matthew 7:21-23  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[The Barbarian]

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You have the choice to believe the word of God or not.

We all have the choice to believe your interpretation of the word of God or not. 

I don't.

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is nothing allegorical in the writings of Genesis.

I know you believe that.  Fortunately, it's not a salvation issue.  So even if you persist in rejecting God's word on this, it won't send you to hell.

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and in evolution has a firm understanding of neither.

Well, they don't understand evolution in particular and science in general.   One does not "believe in" a physical phenomenon.    You might as well talk about "believing in" gravity.

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution fails as a scientific theory

YE creationist Dr. Todd Wood points out that you're wrong:

https://toddcwood.blogspot.com/2009/09/truth-about-evolution.html

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

because the driving force of evolution, benevolent mutations, has never been shown to advance a species.

There are many such observed cases. 

Evolution of a new digestive organ permits lizards to thrive in new environment: 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080417112433.htm

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Such a force couldn't be responsible for all the biodiversity on earth and not be replicable. 

I know you want to believe that, but in the absence of evidence for your assumption...

35 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Homosexuals are active pastors.  Adulterers are religious leaders. 

Many of them creationists.   We get that.  Read your Bible.   God is very clear as to what will save you.  It's not whether or not you follow the new religion of creationism.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by The Barbarian

[BeyondET]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:50 PM, Who me said:

I prefer to ask how can a process vital for evolut8on be called an enemy, death, the last enemy?

Also how could death be call " good " ?

Was the death of leaves good to create an animal that looks like one?

[Who me]

5 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Was the death of leaves good to create an animal that looks like one?

1st death applied to all that had the breath of life, which does not include plants and certainly does not apply to part of plants.

 

So the " death of leaves " is an irrational distraction.

 

2nd you are ignorant  of the power and wisdom of God.

 

As it says in genesis all living plants were given to all creatures for food, so again the " death of plants or plant parts " as it was permitted by God is an irrelevance to the discussion of creation.

 

A fallen world cursed by sin changed by a global flood and God permitted man to eat meat, it is reasonable to assume that carnivorous  creatures had begun to eat other creatures earlier than the flood as quite likely  did rebellious  men.

That there was the adaptability in creatures to develop protective shapes, colouration, and the ability to thrive in a multitude  of environments  is a tribute to God's wisdom in creation.