Starise Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,666 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: I don't see any " myths" as stumbling blocks creating pre-conceived notions about Jesus regarding"Race",not in my experience anyway What I do see is His Deity challenged because unless it is Revealed by Holy Spirit I don't believe one can see WHO Jesus IS.... even amongst self proclaimed Christisns who will continue to debate that Jesus is GOD..... let's not even bring the "Trinity or Triune GodHead " into this but the realization that " to Know Him is to Love Him" otherwise they only know " about Him" and cannot wrap a finite mind around the fact thst yes ,Jesus Was Fully HUMAN yet at the same time Fully GOD- that Knowledge & Understanding will never come by a carnal mind,not by logic,reason or academics- it is with the Heart and Mind of Chrst Jesus that the Teacher Reveals God's Truth There are many stumbling blocks for the unbeliever as well as the carnal minded man who has indeed been Born Again- there's is one thst comes to steal,kill and destroy and goes back & forth seeking who he MAY devour- it's a spiritual war and that Truth is all too often ignored. With love in Christ ,Kwik Thanks kwik for this. I see people who I think use some of these arguments to convince themselves that Christianity isn't worth a serious look. And I am guessing most of them aren't taking an honest look because they don't have the desire. Maybe to your point, God has to be the one to change hearts and that's what I pray for. I have hope. I have been wearied in some of these battles at times and have been reminded I need to understand what my responsibility is and what God's responsibility is. My mind often lies to me and can't be trusted. Is an atheist any better or worse than an agnostic? How about a witch? Or anyone who doesn't choose to believe in or follow Jesus? I see them all in the same boat with the same needs at the basic level, and what can I do about any of it? Ask to be used and pray like there's no tomorrow. God will have to do the rest if it's ever done. With God all things are possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,842 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Starise said: Thanks kwik for this. I see people who I think use some of these arguments to convince themselves that Christianity isn't worth a serious look. And I am guessing most of them aren't taking an honest look because they don't have the desire. Maybe to your point, God has to be the one to change hearts and that's what I pray for. I have hope. I have been wearied in some of these battles at times and have been reminded I need to understand what my responsibility is and what God's responsibility is. My mind often lies to me and can't be trusted. Is an atheist any better or worse than an agnostic? How about a witch? Or anyone who doesn't choose to believe in or follow Jesus? I see them all in the same boat with the same needs at the basic level, and what can I do about any of it? Ask to be used and pray like there's no tomorrow. God will have to do the rest if it's ever done. With God all things are possible. That's exactly right,pray & pray like you've never prayed before.... There is no difference between the atheist,the agnostic,the Jew,the satanist or the self proclaimed "Christian "not Born Again..... there is the Believer and the unbeliever,the heart is hardened and cannot or will not Receive the WORD( Jesus) We Deliver a Message,it is the Good News- arguing,debating or repetitious banging someone over the head is not going to change their heart- imo the best Delivery is to provoke one to jealousy thst they desire what the Believer has and what he displays Representing Christ And also to not Entertain the enemy,Jesus NEVER entertained the enemy-and so " the Lord Rebukes",it's not even our fight! Be Blessed and pray,submit,pray,submit and pray some more With love in Christ,Kwik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truswell Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, Starise said: You assertion that the Jews were predisposed to idol worhip is accurate, and maybe one reason they spent 40 years wandering the desert in addition to not believing they could go in and conquer the giants. They would have had access to those demonic false gods in Egypt, but I don't want to take this too far and say they were all idol worshippers or take this in a gnostic direction, know what I mean? There are exceptions to this, but the history of Jewish loyalty to God is rife with this sort of thing. Before we cast a judgmental finger towards them though, I look at all the luke warm Christians today and those who call themselves Christians, but aren't. Not much about human nature has changed. Enough is enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,666 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 49 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: That's exactly right,pray & pray like you've never prayed before.... There is no difference between the atheist,the agnostic,the Jew,the satanist or the self proclaimed "Christian "not Born Again..... there is the Believer and the unbeliever,the heart is hardened and cannot or will not Receive the WORD( Jesus) We Deliver a Message,it is the Good News- arguing,debating or repetitious banging someone over the head is not going to change their heart- imo the best Delivery is to provoke one to jealousy thst they desire what the Believer has and what he displays Representing Christ And also to not Entertain the enemy,Jesus NEVER entertained the enemy-and so " the Lord Rebukes",it's not even our fight! Be Blessed and pray,submit,pray,submit and pray some more With love in Christ,Kwik This is what I attempt to achieve, but maybe it isn't always successful. I can only be responsible for my behavior. Instead of argument I use discussion. I'll go back and forth in a loop indefinitely if one of those loops gets through. I can't bang anyone over the head, just isn't in me. I will however, continually remind. I have no intention to entertain the enemy. "They" whoever they are, are not the invisible spiritual enemy, but surely can be used by the enemy as an enemy soldier unawares even. I've seen a lot of that, even knowing what my potential weaknesses are without knowing me. We are to love our enemies right? This is to love those who represent and follow the enemy. Maybe I slather it on a little too thick sometimes, but the Lord really puts His love for them in me. That kind of love is real, but it's also frank, pulls no punches, because to do less isn't really love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,842 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, Starise said: This is what I attempt to achieve, but maybe it isn't always successful. I can only be responsible for my behavior. Instead of argument I use discussion. I'll go back and forth in a loop indefinitely if one of those loops gets through. I can't bang anyone over the head, just isn't in me. I will however, continually remind. I have no intention to entertain the enemy. "They" whoever they are, are not the invisible spiritual enemy, but surely can be used by the enemy as an enemy soldier unawares even. I've seen a lot of that, even knowing what my potential weaknesses are without knowing me. We are to love our enemies right? This is to love those who represent and follow the enemy. Maybe I slather it on a little too thick sometimes, but the Lord really puts His love for them in me. That kind of love is real, but it's also frank, pulls no punches, because to do less isn't really love. Our 'enemies"are not our enemies,them we love ( from afar is fine friend) we have the same enemy and thats what I mean by entertaining the enemy - don't you see it on the Forums?In traffic,in the shopping mart,lol... the masses being lead around by a spirit of pride " you offend ME" ,I know the truth no one else does",you are this or you are thst , snarky rudeness,,unkindness,etc..... can't entertain it,at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Jah Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 294 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 129 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2023 What has always puzzled me about incarnation is that it would nullify the ransom. Because that would mean Jesus would not be truly human. he would be part human and part god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,666 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Our 'enemies"are not our enemies,them we love ( from afar is fine friend) we have the same enemy and thats what I mean by entertaining the enemy - don't you see it on the Forums?In traffic,in the shopping mart,lol... the masses being lead around by a spirit of pride " you offend ME" ,I know the truth no one else does",you are this or you are thst , snarky rudeness,,unkindness,etc..... can't entertain it,at all Sorry kwik I'm slow on the uptake sometimes. I have unfortunately ate, eaten, err, consumed that bait on occasion. I see those as the darts we evade. Pride is one of the major obstacles to getting through to anyone. Sometimes I wish the Lord would just knock the legs out from under all those chairs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,666 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Know Jah said: What has always puzzled me about incarnation is that it would nullify the ransom. Because that would mean Jesus would not be truly human. he would be part human and part god. He never sinned and was really God in a human shell. That's how I get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truswell Posted November 7, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 192 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starise said: He never sinned and was really God in a human shell. That's how I get there. This is how Gleeson Archer explains it. We read in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Because Jesus is the eternal God who became man He was able to redeem mankind from the first Adam to the last Adam and was able to take away the sins of the whole world. His Grace is all-encompassing. As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sins. God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise, he would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could provide a sacrifice sufficient to atone for the sins of humankind; for only a man born of flesh could represent the human race. But our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of the eternal hell that our sin demands according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation by which He could remain Just, while becoming the Justifier of the ungodly. So instead of sending the wicked to the everlasting perdition they deserved, it was the perfect Man, who was also the infinite God, that furnished an effective sacrifice for all believers of every age. . Edited November 7, 2023 by Truswell 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted November 8, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,890 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,777 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Truswell said: This is how Gleeson Archer explains it. We read in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Because Jesus is the eternal God who became man He was able to redeem mankind from the first Adam to the last Adam and was able to take away the sins of the whole world. His Grace is all-encompassing. As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sins. God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise, he would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could provide a sacrifice sufficient to atone for the sins of humankind; for only a man born of flesh could represent the human race. But our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of the eternal hell that our sin demands according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation by which He could remain Just, while becoming the Justifier of the ungodly. So instead of sending the wicked to the everlasting perdition they deserved, it was the perfect Man, who was also the infinite God, that furnished an effective sacrifice for all believers of every age. . Hello @Truswell, thank you for posting. I have only look through the first part of your post and I have to endorse it because I have not found or as I know anything else that will lead me to any disagreement. There is something that I would like to ask you, if you know about it. Is there a way to find out if there is a scripture that tell us the definition of "Jewish". Why anyone can call himself or someone else Jewish. What is the criteria that were considered? Were the disciples Jews? And if not what were they? What is the distinction between a Jew and a Jewish? Edited November 8, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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