The Body of Christ`s destiny - heaven or earth?

[AdHoc]

13 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The Lord Jesus Christ has always been King, - king of Glory, King of Heaven, King of the Ages, (He planned them) King of Israel , King of Judah, (He made them all and He is their King. It is the rebellious rulers that will be dealt with.

 

The Father will set up His Son in the third heaven (Mount Zion) where He will be visibly ruling and reigning. This is the throne that will execute the Father`s judgments.

 

Christ`s Throne.

At the appointed time God, the Father will set His King, His Son on Mount Zion. This is the ruling area in the highest realm, the angelic heaven.

`I (Father) have set My King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

`you have come to Mount Zion …. To an innumerable company of angels …to God…to Jesus..` (Heb. 12: 22 – 24)

 

Only the Son is worthy to receive such high honor, glory and power.

`Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing! ` (Rev. 5: 12)

The Son, the King on the highest throne has prevailed over sin and Satan. Only He is worthy to open the scroll of judgments upon the rebellious. Written on this scroll are the executive orders from the Father.

`the Father….has given Him (Jesus) authority to execute judgment…` (John 5: 27)

 

Thus, from His own throne, with the Father`s authority the King begins to put down all rule and all authority and power.

`He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. ` (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)  

 

This supreme King over all of God`s great kingdom judges –

Rulers - `The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together against the LORD and His anointed,…` (Ps. 2: 2)

Authorities - `the course of this world,` (Eph. 2: 2) World system (Politically, Economically and religious)

 

Powers - `according to the prince of the power of the air,…` (Eph. 2: 2)

 

And the kingdoms of this world will then become the kingdoms of this King, Jesus.

`The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ. And he shall reign forever and ever. ` (Rev. 11: 15)

 

 

You have pieced your scriptures together very well, and on first reading you seem to have a good argument. Also, I must commend your tactics because if I'm honest I must deal with your arguments. By pumping out verses that are very close you can seem to overcome me. But there is a flaw in it. It is this; If you don't deal with my arguments and bring scriptures to combat mine, you pit one scripture against another. I'm going to let my arguments stand, and try to answer yours. If I miss one, point it out later.

So, my first question is; Which one of your scriptures puts Jesus in heaven during the Millennium - I mean in plain language.

That He is "high" and lofty and made number one by the Father is not disputed. But which scriptures show Him to return to the Father's Throne?

I built an argument, with scripture references where our Lord returns to earth and judges the Nations. In Matthew 25:31-46 He judges "ALL Nations" on the basis of their treatment of His brethren under duress. Now, when does He return to "above all the heavens" ... and why? After all, Daniel 2 says that His Kingdom fills the earth. Why would He forsake it?

Then, 1,000 years later, His beloved City is threatened by Magog. Why won't the King be there? And then, after the great slaughter of Magog, He sits on a White Throne to judge the dead. Are they too then raptured to above the highest heaven? Then, the Lord, Who is the Light and tabernacle of New Jerusalem, which reigns (Rev.22:5), is said to come down.

Your best argument was concerning Zion. But we have, in scripture an Earthly Zion and a Heavenly - just like the tabernacle. You failed to show which one it was. The word "heavenly" can mean both (1) IN HEAVEN, and (2) HEAVENLY in NATURE. Paul told Agrippa that he was "not disobedient to the heavenly vision", but we know that he was on earth. The mountain of fiery stones that shook the Israelites - was it in heaven or earth? And is Zion said to be heavenly or is it heavenly Jerusalem which comes down to earth. Finally, Hebrews 12:22 is written in the past tense. Is it not because the author of Hebrews was painting a picture and not reality? In actual fact, dos the grammar not equate Zion with the City and the City is coming down?

If you say; "aahh, but what of the angels?" why ... three times in scripture are men in resurrection said to be like angels. And is the measurement of New Jerusalem not the measure of an angel?

Look, its 1:30 a.m here and I'm folding. Let's examine each other's argnments. The language of the bible is simple in grammar. It either says something or it doesn't. Let's gnaw over a scripture or two that has Jesus absent from Jerusalem when the survivors of Armageddon go up to Jerusalem annually in Zechariah 14:16 - for example.

Good night and God bless. 

[Marilyn C]

Thank you Ad Hoc for your kind words. I know that I haven`t yet addressed all you have written about but was just doing a step at a time. Thank you for the clear questions you have concerning your arguments.

Now we know that other people are reading so I like to go slowly and help them understand what is being presented.

 

Jesus is presently at the right hand of the Father on Mount Zion.

 

The writer to the Hebrews is telling the believers of the heavenly Mount Zion and saying that it is not like the earthly mountain (Mt Sinai) that they could not touch. If they did, they would be put to death.

`For you have not come to the mountain (Mt Sinai) that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to the blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

(For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, (Mt. Sinai) it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”) (Heb. 12: 18 – 21)

 

` You (Moses) shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, “Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain (Mt. Sinai) or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.” ` (Ex. 19: 12)

 

The Hebrew writer is explaining to the believers that they have come to a wonderful (symbolic) Mount, Mount Zion, in the third heaven.  This Mount Zion is where Jesus is the Mediator and His blood is better than Abel`s for Jesus` blood paid the price for their sins.

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things that that of Abel.` (Heb. 12: 22 – 24)

 

The writer has been talking about Jesus as their `High Priest who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens. `(Heb. 8: 1)

And the believers were told previously that they could `come boldly to the throne of grace,` that they may `obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.` (Heb. 4: 16)

 

Thus, we know there is a Mount Zion is in the third heaven.

 

Mount Zion on earth is where King David ruled from, his seat of power and authority.

Mount Zion in the third heaven is where Jesus, the High Priest is interceding for His own (Heb. 7: 25), and will be where He will rule as King.

 

 

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you Ad Hoc for your kind words. I know that I haven`t yet addressed all you have written about but was just doing a step at a time. Thank you for the clear questions you have concerning your arguments.

Now we know that other people are reading so I like to go slowly and help them understand what is being presented.

 

Jesus is presently at the right hand of the Father on Mount Zion.

 

The writer to the Hebrews is telling the believers of the heavenly Mount Zion and saying that it is not like the earthly mountain (Mt Sinai) that they could not touch. If they did, they would be put to death.

`For you have not come to the mountain (Mt Sinai) that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to the blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

(For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, (Mt. Sinai) it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”) (Heb. 12: 18 – 21)

 

` You (Moses) shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, “Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain (Mt. Sinai) or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.” ` (Ex. 19: 12)

 

The Hebrew writer is explaining to the believers that they have come to a wonderful (symbolic) Mount, Mount Zion, in the third heaven.  This Mount Zion is where Jesus is the Mediator and His blood is better than Abel`s for Jesus` blood paid the price for their sins.

 

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things that that of Abel.` (Heb. 12: 22 – 24)

 

The writer has been talking about Jesus as their `High Priest who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens. `(Heb. 8: 1)

And the believers were told previously that they could `come boldly to the throne of grace,` that they may `obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.` (Heb. 4: 16)

 

Thus, we know there is a Mount Zion is in the third heaven.

 

Mount Zion on earth is where King David ruled from, his seat of power and authority.

Mount Zion in the third heaven is where Jesus, the High Priest is interceding for His own (Heb. 7: 25), and will be where He will rule as King.

 

I will write more on this tomorrow.

 

 

The Book of Hebrews was written primarily to ex-Jews who had embraced Jesus Christ, but because of the persecution and loss of worldly goods, were considering turning back to Moses. The Law offered instant rewards for obedience while faith in Jesus just brought persecution and loss. The author (who is unknown) dos two things; (i) He counters their folly by showing that in all things Jesus is superior to Moses, the Law and the angels, and (ii) he issues five dire warnings to anybody who turns back. Chapter 11 is the proof that the most renown saints in God's eyes who were believers that God would reward them ultimately. Chapter 12 follows with a another warning. It was this that God chastens those who He loves, but that this chastisement is local, limited and produces the fruit of righteousness. But there was a danger. The chastisement of the Lord could be grievous and if the Hebrews did not watch, their pain could produce bitterness.

Bitterness in turn would produce a false picture of our God and many, like the servant in Matthew 25 with the single Talent, would think that God is a harsh and destroying God. This was one of the two big sins that stumbled Israel in the wilderness. They murmured at God's dealings, and like Esau, they despised their birthright and refused to go up and take the Land at Kadesh-Barnea The Hebrews (literally "River-crossers") should be aware that God has extended grace, and the dispensing of God was much more congenial than under Moses. the author then goes on to show that THEIR PRESENT WALK is much less fraught with danger than Israel of yore. When God proposed Law, Israel made a fatal mistake. Instead of falling on their faces and admitting that they could never keep God's requirements, they boastfully said that they would keep the all.

Ina moment things changed dramatically. They had touched God's holiness and left grace. And thus, the mountain of meeting God became a dangerous place. One step out of instructions and man and beast would die terribly. This was what Law brought to the fallen man - death. the author of Hebrews then COMPARES this bowel-loosening mountain to another mountain - a mountain which guaranteed Israel's safety and acceptance - the one of Revelation 21: 

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Hebrews CONTRASTS two mountains - one of death and fear, Sinai (Horeb), the other of grace and intervention built in resurrection. The City is heavenly, therefore Sion must be heavenly. BUT IT COME DOWN TO EARTH. The designation "heavenly" is not because it stays in heaven, but because it is heavenly in NATURE. When Great Britain ruled India, the TERRITORY was far from Westminster, but the RULE was British. New Jerusalem is heavenly in nature, but ON EARTH. And this is PURE GRACE because the bringing of rule to earth the Nations are blessed - in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham - "in your seed will all the families of earth be blessed". Hebrews 12 is proof that God's rule GOES OUT FROM HEAVEN, but the Lord, who is the Light and Tabernacle of Heavenly Jerusalem must be ON EARTH. The Nations never go to heaven, yet some will have access to the Tree of Life in the midst of the City!

Well have you said that Sion in Hebrews 12 is heavenly. But the city comes to earth!

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

Well have you said that Sion in Hebrews 12 is heavenly. But the city comes to earth!

God has made TWO aspects to Jerusalem – Mount Zion (for ruling) AND the city (for the people).

 

On earth we read that there are TWO aspects to Jerusalem - Mount Zion AND the city.

King David ruled from Mount Zion and the city was further down the mountain.

`For in Mount Zion AND in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance..` (Joel 2: 32)

 

 

In the third heaven we also read of the TWO aspects of Jerusalem – Mount Zion AND the city.

`you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. ` (Heb. 12: 22)

 

 

Now we agree that the city, the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God in eternity.

`Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also, there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God…` (Rev. 21: 1 & 2)

 

However, the heavenly Mount Zion does not move, for it is the seat of Christ`s power and authority over all of God`s great kingdom. Just as you said Britain ruled over its dominions, but their seat of power and authority was in Great Britain.

Quote - `When Great Britain ruled India, the TERRITORY was far from Westminster, but the RULE was British.

 

Christ made `thrones and dominions,` (Plural) however He only has one as His seat of power and authority. 

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. ` (Col. 1: 16)

A throne represents power and authority.

Dominions are the area over which the King reigns.

 

And it is the Father who appoints and anoints His Son to be the supreme King over all His great Kingdom. His throne is in the heavenly Mount Zion, God`s holy hill.

 

`I (Father) have set My King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

 

 

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

God has made TWO aspects to Jerusalem – Mount Zion (for ruling) AND the city (for the people).

 

On earth we read that there are TWO aspects to Jerusalem - Mount Zion AND the city.

King David ruled from Mount Zion and the city was further down the mountain.

`For in Mount Zion AND in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance..` (Joel 2: 32)

 

 

In the third heaven we also read of the TWO aspects of Jerusalem – Mount Zion AND the city.

`you have come to Mount Zion AND to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. ` (Heb. 12: 22)

 

 

Now we agree that the city, the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God in eternity.

`Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also, there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God…` (Rev. 21: 1 & 2)

 

However, the heavenly Mount Zion does not move, for it is the seat of Christ`s power and authority over all of God`s great kingdom. Just as you said Britain ruled over its dominions, but their seat of power and authority was in Great Britain.

Quote - `When Great Britain ruled India, the TERRITORY was far from Westminster, but the RULE was British.

 

Christ made `thrones and dominions,` (Plural) however He only has one as His seat of power and authority. 

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. ` (Col. 1: 16)

A throne represents power and authority.

Dominions are the area over which the King reigns.

 

And it is the Father who appoints and anoints His Son to be the supreme King over all His great Kingdom. His throne is in the heavenly Mount Zion, God`s holy hill.

 

`I (Father) have set My King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

 

 

For your crucial statements, you give no scripture. But with or without scripture your theory is called into question. Our Lord names the kingdom that He will set up ON EARTH - "The Kingdom of HEAVEN." In Matthew 6:10 is is, "THY (God's) Kingdom COME (to earth), THY (God's) will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven."

Again, your argument is called into question because Christ' name is Emmanuel - God WITH US.

Again your argument is tested by the righteous shall shine forth IN the Kingdom, not from a distance

Let us look at your proffered Psalm 2:6 within its context.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Verse 1 sets the PLACE. The heathen are on earth
Verse 2 confirms the kings (plural) of THE EARTH
Verse 2 states what these heathen earthly kings do. They conspire against TWO PEOPLE - the Lord AND His anointed
Verse 7 is the change of government to the rule of the rod of iron

Now I have to ask: What heathen kings will rule and bind with bands and cords in the Millennium? Does not the inspired record say in Daniel 2 ... 

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

...

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The times of the Gentiles end with Christ's Coming. Psalm 2  is a prophecy of the heathen of David's time, but who will be replaced. Does not verse 6 introduce TWO people. One that "sits in heaven" and Who appoints a King on a hill near the HEATHEN. I propose that the Zion here is in Jerusalem ON EARTH. And is this not how it pans out? Christ descends from the clouds in great glory, relieves Jerusalem and fights those of Armageddon? And far from the third heaven, Jerusalem is "The City of the great King".

Now, it is agreed by both of us that the King in Zion is our Lord Jesus. Is He placed in heaven by His Father, where there are no heathen, or is His triumph and subsequent dominion FROM JERUSALEM?

The whole New Testament has, as its main theme, the KINGDOM. The main Character is Jesus. Luke says that He is present first, then goes to a far place "TO RECEIVE A KINGDOM - AND RETURN" (Lk.19:12).

Finally, as our Lord feasted His last Passover with His Apostles, He said that He would not eat it again until he came in His Kingdom. But His Apostles are appointed to sit on thrones, each judging a Tribe of Israel. He was adamant that His desire was to eat it WITH them (Lk.22:15-16). How could He do this if he is in the third heaven?

I do think that if you add all the arguments starting from my first posting, the logical answer to "Where dos Christ (Emmanuel) ruled from in the Millennium, it can only be the earth - Jerusalem specifically!

[Marilyn C]

God`s great kingdom encompasses the third heaven, the universe, and the earth with its atmospheric heaven. It was created good till sin entered in and that was in every realm.

`…the heavens are not pure in His sight.`   (Job 15: 15)

 

Christ operating as High Priest at the Father`s Right Hand.

Thus, Christ came and conquered the enemy, and when He ascended to the Father `all things were put under His feet. ` (Eph. 1: 22) Christ was and is seated –

`far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21)

From this high exalted position at the Father`s right hand, Christ intercedes for His Body of believers.

`Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;…` (Heb. 7: 25 & 26)

 

Christ Inaugurated as King on His Own Throne.

Then in the Father`s appointed time He will set His Son on His own throne visibly in the third heaven. Christ is inaugurated as King in the highest position in all of God`s great kingdom. He is acclaimed worthy `to receive glory and honor and power. ` (Rev. 4: 11)

Christ had glory before the world began, (John 17: 5) but still there is more acclamations of glory for Christ`s amazing sacrifice through which He brought not only salvation to man but will bring God`s righteous rulership throughout His great kingdom.

 

Christ operating as King on His Own Throne.

From Christ`s throne in the third heaven He will begin to execute the Father`s will, the judgments upon the rebellious.

`For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. ` (1 Cor. 15: 25)

During the tribulation we see many judgments poured forth, some people repent some don`t.

 

Christ operates as King in the glory of His Own Throne on Earth.

Finally, when the armies of the world surround Jerusalem in victory, the Lord descends from heaven in great glory with His angelic army. It is with this great glory and authority of His throne that Christ judges the nations.

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.` (Matt. 25: 31)

Then, Christ goes over to the city of Jerusalem and reveals Himself to His people Israel. The Holy Spirit opens their eyes to whom He is.

`I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.` (Zech. 12: 10)

 

Christ Sets up His Righteous Rulership in Israel.

After the mourning the Lord will set up His righteous rulership on King David`s throne in Israel.

`For it shall come to pass in that day,` says the Lord of Hosts, `that I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds. Foreigners shall no more enslave them. But they will serve the Lord their God, and David their King whom I will raise up for them.` (Isa. 30: 8 & 9)

Along with King David the Lord will appoint priests.

`I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see my glory…..Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all the nations….

And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.` (Isa.66: 18 – 21)

Thus, Christ the King over all God`s great kingdom will have established righteous rulership on earth on King David`s throne.

 

Christ Ascends back to His own Throne in Glory.

`Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voice of triumph! For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. He will subdue the peoples under us, and nations under our feet. He will choose our inheritance for us. The excellence of Jacob whom He loves

God has gone UP with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet.

Sing praises to God, sing praise! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with understanding.

God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy Throne. The princes of the people gathered together, the people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God. He is greatly exalted.` (Ps. 47: 1 – 9)

The Lord returns to His own Throne, His seat of power and authority over all other thrones.

 

Christ Rules from His Own Throne in glory in the Millennium.

From His exalted position in glory the Lord reigns over all of God`s great kingdom. The millennium is a time for Israel to rule the nations righteously and teach them God`s ways. The Lord has raised up His rulership in Israel on the earth on David`s throne, in Jerusalem, as promised.

`Many nations shall come and say, “Come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law will go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. ` (Micah 4: 2)

Those nations that do not go up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles will have a plague sent upon them. God is with His people Israel by His Holy Spirit and those who come to worship Him will be blessed but those who do not attend the Feast will be punished.

`…they will receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.` (Zech. 14: 18)

 

 

 

 

[AdHoc]

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

God`s great kingdom encompasses the third heaven, the universe, and the earth with its atmospheric heaven. It was created good till sin entered in and that was in every realm.

`…the heavens are not pure in His sight.`   (Job 15: 15)

 

Christ operating as High Priest at the Father`s Right Hand.

Thus, Christ came and conquered the enemy, and when He ascended to the Father `all things were put under His feet. ` (Eph. 1: 22) Christ was and is seated –

`far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.` (Eph. 1: 21)

From this high exalted position at the Father`s right hand, Christ intercedes for His Body of believers.

`Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;…` (Heb. 7: 25 & 26)

 

Christ Inaugurated as King on His Own Throne.

Then in the Father`s appointed time He will set His Son on His own throne visibly in the third heaven. Christ is inaugurated as King in the highest position in all of God`s great kingdom. He is acclaimed worthy `to receive glory and honor and power. ` (Rev. 4: 11)

Christ had glory before the world began, (John 17: 5) but still there is more acclamations of glory for Christ`s amazing sacrifice through which He brought not only salvation to man but will bring God`s righteous rulership throughout His great kingdom.

 

Christ operating as King on His Own Throne.

From Christ`s throne in the third heaven He will begin to execute the Father`s will, the judgments upon the rebellious.

`For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. ` (1 Cor. 15: 25)

During the tribulation we see many judgments poured forth, some people repent some don`t.

 

Christ operates as King in the glory of His Own Throne on Earth.

Finally, when the armies of the world surround Jerusalem in victory, the Lord descends from heaven in great glory with His angelic army. It is with this great glory and authority of His throne that Christ judges the nations.

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.` (Matt. 25: 31)

Then, Christ goes over to the city of Jerusalem and reveals Himself to His people Israel. The Holy Spirit opens their eyes to whom He is.

`I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.` (Zech. 12: 10)

 

Christ Sets up His Righteous Rulership in Israel.

After the mourning the Lord will set up His righteous rulership on King David`s throne in Israel.

`For it shall come to pass in that day,` says the Lord of Hosts, `that I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds. Foreigners shall no more enslave them. But they will serve the Lord their God, and David their King whom I will raise up for them.` (Isa. 30: 8 & 9)

Along with King David the Lord will appoint priests.

`I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see my glory…..Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all the nations….

And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.` (Isa.66: 18 – 21)

Thus, Christ the King over all God`s great kingdom will have established righteous rulership on earth on King David`s throne.

 

Christ Ascends back to His own Throne in Glory.

`Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voice of triumph! For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. He will subdue the peoples under us, and nations under our feet. He will choose our inheritance for us. The excellence of Jacob whom He loves

God has gone UP with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet.

Sing praises to God, sing praise! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with understanding.

God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy Throne. The princes of the people gathered together, the people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God. He is greatly exalted.` (Ps. 47: 1 – 9)

The Lord returns to His own Throne, His seat of power and authority over all other thrones.

 

Christ Rules from His Own Throne in glory in the Millennium.

From His exalted position in glory the Lord reigns over all of God`s great kingdom. The millennium is a time for Israel to rule the nations righteously and teach them God`s ways. The Lord has raised up His rulership in Israel on the earth on David`s throne, in Jerusalem, as promised.

`Many nations shall come and say, “Come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law will go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. ` (Micah 4: 2)

Those nations that do not go up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles will have a plague sent upon them. God is with His people Israel by His Holy Spirit and those who come to worship Him will be blessed but those who do not attend the Feast will be punished.

`…they will receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.` (Zech. 14: 18)

 

 

 

 

I have read your posting through three times. You have built a wonderful case for Christ reigning in glory in the Millennial Kingdom. But i could not find a single verse that showed WHERE He reigns from. You have Him on earth ministering. You have Him in the Father's throne during the Church age. You have Him on His own throne in the THIRD HEAVEN. Please post a verse for that.

My arguments were again left without counter. I will answer your two paragraphs that address our Lord Jesus leaving earth again

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Christ Ascends back to His own Throne in Glory.

`Oh, clap your hands, all you peoples! Shout to God with the voice of triumph! For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. He will subdue the peoples under us, and nations under our feet. He will choose our inheritance for us. The excellence of Jacob whom He loves

God has gone UP with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet.

Sing praises to God, sing praise! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with understanding.

God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy Throne. The princes of the people gathered together, the people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God. He is greatly exalted.` (Ps. 47: 1 – 9)

The Lord returns to His own Throne, His seat of power and authority over all other thrones.

 

Christ Rules from His Own Throne in glory in the Millennium.

From His exalted position in glory the Lord reigns over all of God`s great kingdom. The millennium is a time for Israel to rule the nations righteously and teach them God`s ways. The Lord has raised up His rulership in Israel on the earth on David`s throne, in Jerusalem, as promised.

`Many nations shall come and say, “Come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law will go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. ` (Micah 4: 2)

Those nations that do not go up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles will have a plague sent upon them. God is with His people Israel by His Holy Spirit and those who come to worship Him will be blessed but those who do not attend the Feast will be punished.

`…they will receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.` (Zech. 14: 18)

Psalm 47 is much disputed. I don't want to dispute whether it was written by the sons of Korah or David. I also do not want to dispute whether God went "UP" to Jerusalem in the Ark, or returned to heaven, because it just doesn't say where and why. What is not in dispute is that God's will was to dwell with Israel, and He did from the dedication of the Tabernacle till the first Chapters of Ezekiel. The leaving of God was NOT accompanied by clapping hands or shouts of joy. It is an event of dreadful mourning.

Next, our Lord Jesus was announced by John Baptist who came teaching the Kingdom. Jesus followed ... teaching the Kingdom. Jesus cast out demons with the finger of God ... which showed that the kingdom was among Israelites. Jesus came tachinga New and Additional birth - in the spirit of man (Jn.6:6), which would allow the man to see the Kingdom. Further, if the man allowed himslf to be immersed, he would be eligible to ENTER the Kingdom. Israel thoroughly rejected this teaching and the Teacher, calling Him an emissary of Beelzebub. At the end of His ministry Jesus advised Israel that the Kingdom would be ripped away from them (Matt.21:43). He, named Emmanuel, withdrew from the Temple, and said that it (the Temple) was left "desolate" (Matt.23:38). Israel did subdue nations, but history showed that from the Babylonian captivity, they never ever ruled a nation again, and WERE RULED since that day.

In the Millennial Kingdom Israel is ruled by Jesus first. His deputy is David - a Christian because he looked forward and believed what he wrote about the coming Messiah. Under David will be the Twelve Apostles - all Christians. Israel will NOT rule anybody in the Millennium. The Psalm is an exultation of Israel when they rules to the Euphrates. And the Psalm does not say that Israel will teach the nations God's ways. It says that God (He) will teach them. Now, under inspiration the Psalmist says that for this teaching the nations will go up to Jerusalem. Why? If God was in heaven the nations would go up to heaven to be taught. The very scripture you bring has evidence that God is in Jerusalem.

But now I have a question for you. In Luke 19:17-19 Christ's servants who were diligent and used their pounds to multiply them, are made kings over cities. But the promise was that they would rule the NATIONS. This makes the cities, the cities of the HEATHEN. (1) Where, EVER; did the Nations go to heaven, and (2) If Christ rules WITH them (Rev.20:1-4), how did the martyrs get into the third heaven with their respective cities?

What we are missing is just two verses - verse that plainly say that our Lord Jesus rules earth from the third heaven. That would settle a mound of talking. In just about every scripture you have offered, it either has nothing to do with WHERE Jesus rules from, or it points to the opposite. WE are about to enter a phase where we are just going to repeat old arguments. I propose that you find those elusive verses, or take it that they don't exist. Then let us let our fellow servants decide - as God wanted it in the Assembly (1st Cor.14:29).

[Marilyn C]

As to your many arguments, Ad Hoc, as I said I am only doing one step at a time. My last comments were to do with what I see concerning God`s great kingdom, with scriptures as you asked.

 

Now I propose to answer this question you asked -

Quote - `You have Him on His own throne in the THIRD HEAVEN. Please post a verse for that. `

 

First let`s see what we can agree on. You said -

Quote- `Now, it is agreed by both of us that the King in Zion is our Lord Jesus. 

Quote -`From His ascension to his coronation in Revelation Chapter 4 `

 

Christ`s Own Throne in the Third Heaven.

 ` Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.`       (Rev. 4: 2)

Here is the coronation of our Lord and saviour. He is the `one` on this throne described to be like glorious gem stones, the `Jasper and Sardius` stones. They were the first and last on the High Priest`s breastplate.

 `And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

                                                                                                                         

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer -  `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)              

Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.    

 

The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.   

                                                                                                                   

So now we realise that this throne, this rulership is for a High Priest. A royal High Priest, a King and a Priest. These two offices were never put together on earth, but kept separate, however in this supreme position of rulership, on this throne there will be a High Priest – Kingpriest.

 

Then throughout all of God`s Great kingdom this Kingpriest will appoint other kings and priests to rule under Him. They will only hold one office, either as King or priest but not the two offices together.

 

As you rightly said concerning the British Empire, their authority and power was from Westminster however their rule went over their dominions.

Quote -`When Great Britain ruled India, the TERRITORY was far from Westminster, but the RULE was British. `

 

Thus, the glorified Lord Jesus, crowned with glory and honor, rules over all God`s great kingdom as King and (High) Priest. His seat of power and authority is from His own Throne, (appointed by the Father) in the third heaven.

 

 

 

 

[AdHoc]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

As to your many arguments, Ad Hoc, as I said I am only doing one step at a time. My last comments were to do with what I see concerning God`s great kingdom, with scriptures as you asked.

 

Now I propose to answer this question you asked -

Quote - `You have Him on His own throne in the THIRD HEAVEN. Please post a verse for that. `

 

First let`s see what we can agree on. You said -

Quote- `Now, it is agreed by both of us that the King in Zion is our Lord Jesus. 

Quote -`From His ascension to his coronation in Revelation Chapter 4 `

 

Christ`s Own Throne in the Third Heaven.

 ` Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.`       (Rev. 4: 2)

Here is the coronation of our Lord and saviour. He is the `one` on this throne described to be like glorious gem stones, the `Jasper and Sardius` stones. They were the first and last on the High Priest`s breastplate.

 `And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

                                                                                                                         

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer -  `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)              

Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.    

 

The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.   

                                                                                                                   

So now we realise that this throne, this rulership is for a High Priest. A royal High Priest, a King and a Priest. These two offices were never put together on earth, but kept separate, however in this supreme position of rulership, on this throne there will be a High Priest – Kingpriest.

 

Then throughout all of God`s Great kingdom this Kingpriest will appoint other kings and priests to rule under Him. They will only hold one office, either as King or priest but not the two offices together.

 

As you rightly said concerning the British Empire, their authority and power was from Westminster however their rule went over their dominions.

Quote -`When Great Britain ruled India, the TERRITORY was far from Westminster, but the RULE was British. `

 

Thus, the glorified Lord Jesus, crowned with glory and honor, rules over all God`s great kingdom as King and (High) Priest. His seat of power and authority is from His own Throne, (appointed by the Father) in the third heaven.

 

 

 

 

I quite agree with your method of debate, and will apply myself to wait on your thoroughly researched points.
 

I think you've misunderstood my example of Britain / India. Westminster speaks of God's throne "above the highest heaven". British rule in Indian politics speaks for the Kingdom of Heaven. The British High Commissioner to India speaks of our Lord Jesus - always on site in India.

I mentioned it in our last debate on this subject, but for want of something more to say, here it is again. The Ten Virgins of Matthew 25 must buy extra oil for their "Vessels". The wise do so before falling asleep. That is, in their lifetime, which, we know, is on earth. After resurrection the foolish Virgins seek to borrow but are advised by the wise that they must "buy from those who sell". The vendors of oil were on earth. The foolish Virgins buy and return to the Feast. It too must be on earth for it is "LIKE the Kingdom" - which is set up on earth. It is a Wedding Feast so the Groom must be PRESENT. Our Lord Jesus said that when the Groom is GONE; the disciples will MOURN - not feast.

Our Lord Jesus will be on earth by implication. Since the Wedding Feast is LIKE the Kingdom, Jesus must be on earth for a Millennia.

[Marilyn C]

Thank you Ad Hoc. And I appreciate your scholarly work. Now I agree that the symbolic wedding feast is on the earth. It is between the Lord and Israel as shown in the book of Ruth.

 

When Boaz, a kinsman of Naomi`s husband looked at the facts he determined to undertake the duties of a kinsman on behalf of Ruth. However, there was a closer kinsman that needed to be addressed.

 

These are the four requirements that Boaz needed to do to acquire the land and Ruth.

 

1.           Proof of Relationship.

Boaz was a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech. He was a kinsman. (Ruth 2: 1)

 

2.           Uphold God`s Law.

Boaz took ten men of the elders of the city to oversee the transaction. (Ruth 4: 2)

 

3.           Clear the debt.

Boaz asked the closer kinsman if he desired to redeem the parcel of land of his brother Elimelech. He also said that the transaction included the marriage to Ruth. The closer kinsman declined to redeem the land and Ruth thus not becoming the kinsman-redeemer. Boaz however, chose to redeem the land and to take Ruth as his wife. (Ruth 4: 4 - 12)

 

4.           Consummate the marriage union.

Boaz took Ruth for His wife and she bore a son to him, Obed, and he begat Jesse the father of David.  (Ruth 4: 13 - 22) From this line Jesus was born. (Matt. 1: 1 - 16)

 

The Lord Jesus Christ has accomplished the first 3 requirements and will fulfill the last one – the `marriage to Israel,` when He returns to deliver them.

However, He will not remain on earth but return to His seat of power and authority in the third heaven.

- that is where God`s supreme ruler over all His kingdom (from the third heaven, the Universe and the earth).

- If the Lord stayed on earth He would not be a priest.

`For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;...` (Heb. 8: 4)