Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 On 1/24/2024 at 11:06 AM, Ray12614 said: I think you are indirectly speaking about the USA's southern border? Hi, Not specifically, though the USA does have a Southern Border it also has more wide open coastline than many countries plus the long northern border. What I find rather useless is the building of walls, even great ones, for security. Doesn't much matter where the wall is built, it gets breached or torn down. It is folly to rely on a wall for security, personal or national. It is not only the USA that is under siege today, much of the world's population is on the move on nearly every continent. AND it is not just today there have always been wall breachers on the move all over this world. Our Bible has a "fun" account of a impenetrable walled city above a cliff that was breached, not just once but twice 300 years apart, in the same way. Yet today nations and individuals still demand wall building as a solution to their ills. History and archaeology tells us otherwise. Indeed, just as Robert Frost penned "there is something that does not a wall like". Drugs coming across a border is not a new problem. I have a document from 1939 that tells of America's spirit being sick, even as war was overtaking Europe, and of the coming waves of cocaine that will overwhelm the USA, and in fact already were, even back then. While drugs are coming with the present waves of individuals, the drugs were coming long before as well. It is two separate issues blurred together, neither being dealt with successfully; not at the USA nor really at any part of earth. A spiritual war cannot be fought successfully with wall building. And this is a spiritual war we are all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted January 28 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 670 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 754 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Hi, Not specifically, though the USA does have a Southern Border it also has more wide open coastline than many countries plus the long northern border. What I find rather useless is the building of walls, even great ones, for security. Doesn't much matter where the wall is built, it gets breached or torn down. It is folly to rely on a wall for security, personal or national. It is not only the USA that is under siege today, much of the world's population is on the move on nearly every continent. AND it is not just today there have always been wall breachers on the move all over this world. Our Bible has a "fun" account of a impenetrable walled city above a cliff that was breached, not just once but twice 300 years apart, in the same way. Yet today nations and individuals still demand wall building as a solution to their ills. History and archaeology tells us otherwise. Indeed, just as Robert Frost penned "there is something that does not a wall like". Drugs coming across a border is not a new problem. I have a document from 1939 that tells of America's spirit being sick, even as war was overtaking Europe, and of the coming waves of cocaine that will overwhelm the USA, and in fact already were, even back then. While drugs are coming with the present waves of individuals, the drugs were coming long before as well. It is two separate issues blurred together, neither being dealt with successfully; not at the USA nor really at any part of earth. A spiritual war cannot be fought successfully with wall building. And this is a spiritual war we are all in. Okay, I see your opinions regarding borders and walls built to slow down Illegal immigration . . . but . . . I need to ask you if you lock your doors to your house, and if so, why would you do that? IF breaking the law is only a spiritual problem, why not just only pray for a spiritual solution, and leave your house unlocked, and further, allow anybody come into your house to do whatever they might want to do? Most people have Walls and doors and don't allow entry unless they are invited in. Why should our borders to our nation be any different? Just because illegal entry is not new, and drug smuggling is not new does not mean it is okay to permit that. It simply means that our leadership has not solved it, and in fact, has promoted that. Very disgusting . . . There seems to be a disconnect somewhere in that point of view that says we protect our personal space, yet, we should not protect our country from those coming in who seek to destroy it. Just asking . . . Ray . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted January 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.58 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28 Best way to prevent illegal migrations is to just have a strict policy of absolutely no public money spent on non citizens. That is what all those immigrants in our past faced ("we are a nation of immigrants"), they only received an opportunity to make the best of their lives on their own and become Americans by contributing their hard work and efforts to it. But walls do work when backed up with strict enforcement, look at how effective the Berlin Wall was before it was torn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 2 hours ago, Ray12614 said: Okay, I see your opinions regarding borders and walls built to slow down Illegal immigration . . . but . . . I need to ask you if you lock your doors to your house, and if so, why would you do that? IF breaking the law is only a spiritual problem, why not just only pray for a spiritual solution, and leave your house unlocked, and further, allow anybody come into your house to do whatever they might want to do? Most people have Walls and doors and don't allow entry unless they are invited in. Why should our borders to our nation be any different? Just because illegal entry is not new, and drug smuggling is not new does not mean it is okay to permit that. It simply means that our leadership has not solved it, and in fact, has promoted that. Very disgusting . . . There seems to be a disconnect somewhere in that point of view that says we protect our personal space, yet, we should not protect our country from those coming in who seek to destroy it. Just asking . . . Ray . . . Hi Ray if "we" each protect our own home* we need not rely on a giant wall that will be breached as giant walls have always been breached. I do not think there is inconsistency, instead there is a priority, a responsibility for each individual to not provide a haven for lawlessness. If a pathway leads to no haven along it's way, nor any end reward, it is less likely to be heavily traveled by any wanderer or invader. As example: if illegal drugs were refused at the homes of residents of nations there would be no trafficking of them nor even production of them. Same with the trafficking of slaves or human trafficking of the flesh. There is no innocence to be found within the customer that pays for that which is illegal to acquire or use. It is an individual responsibility to refuse commerce with those that do violate the laws of the land and it is necessary to punish severely those that do become the customers as well as those that transport and sell. * Our own residence, our own fields of crops, our own places of commerce, and industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted January 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.58 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28 1 minute ago, Neighbor said: As example: if illegal drugs were refused at the homes of residents of nations there would be no trafficking of them nor even production of them. Same with the trafficking of slaves or human trafficking of the flesh. But sometimes you have to look at the real world as it really exists and deal with it in that light, not at some hypothetical "what if" scenario that can only be dealt with in a hypothetical world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 7 minutes ago, FJK said: But sometimes you have to look at the real world as it really exists and deal with it in that light, not at some hypothetical "what if" scenario that can only be dealt with in a hypothetical world. Yes, and looking at this world as it really is, there is a multi centuries history of fallings of walls is there not? So why build a wall, no matter how tall? There just is no profit in building one that keeps out only a deer or a rabbit and even then not for all that long. Instead build integrity within the many peoples that do inhabit a land, and punish severely all that transgress against their neighbor's security by doing business of any sort with an invader who has not presented himself before the rulers of the land and received permission to travel it and even to become a valued portion of it's population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 There cannot be a successful compromise with that which is evil. Yet law enforcement policy makers do just that as a rule of thumb to follow, in hopes of somehow getting the bigger criminal enterprise, thinking that will be more productive. It isn't and it won't be. What does happen is the local law enforcement becomes a security force for the local lower level criminal! No amount of pointing out the crime directly across the street from one's own homestead will stop it, if local law thinks it's enterprise is bringing them closer to a bigger "fish". And so we have drug trafficking, as example, at our own streets. It goes on with impunity to the house owner where drugs are dealt and his occupants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 On a larger scale one nation cannot abide a neighboring nation's continued allowance of criminal activity. It needs be challenged and punished severely, not just a wall built that merely defines jurisdictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted January 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.58 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28 22 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Yes, and looking at this world as it really is, there is a multi centuries history of fallings of walls is there not? So why build a wall, no matter how tall? Isn't that a bit like saying there has been a multi centuries of laws failing to prevent crime who why make laws at all? Walls falling usually represents a civilization or nation falling, and often because degeneration of the culture behind that civilization. Importing huge numbers of deliberately non assimilating foreigners with incompatible cultures and beliefs is something that destroys both a culture and a nation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,716 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted January 28 2 hours ago, FJK said: Isn't that a bit like saying there has been a multi centuries of laws failing to prevent crime who why make laws at all? Hi, Just the opposite, it is saying have law, enforce law, do not depend upon a wall as nations have tried to do instead over the many centuries. But I am certain that the issue at hand on through to today is spiritual, one to be fought out in and against the flesh as well as in the spirit; that our enemy is not on the other side of a wall, instead it is within the lands and the peoples themselves, whether it be the USA, or France, or _________________ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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