by Grace and not by works

[eric]

I think the guy needs a pm from someone tp point out thr errors in his posts. He is surely way out in his beliefs,

e

[JesusismyLord]

I am a born again christian who is on the verge on the denoucing chirstianity. The more I look at the OT, and look deeper into Judiasm, the more I believe Jesus can not possible be the messiah expected by the Jews. The prophecies we use as christians are so tainted and down right lies, read them for yourself in context one by one

http://www.messiahrevealed.org/index.html

[Keith]

JIML,

Unfortunately, it seems that you are trusting worldly, unChristian sources instead of God Himself and the scriptures. By the world's standards, God doesn't exist so naturally they are going to debate with supposed "proof" that Jesus is not the Messiah and that scriptures are false.

I can tell you from my personal experience that the Bible is 100% true. When total faith and trust are placed on God and a personal, intimate relationship with Jesus is had, the very real truth, and understanding, of the Word is there to those who ask Him for it.

For every website you present with "proof" that Jesus is not the Messiah, another can be found with proof that He is. It's a never-ending merry-go-round. The real proof of Jesus is in experiencing Him personally. The infallibility of the scriptures is found in obeying and trusting them. The love of God is felt by any who call upon it.

I pray earnestly that God would speak to you and bring others in your path who will be able to help you get past your pain and the deception that you've fallen into. Risking your eternity isn't worth it.

[eric]

Well if I were you, mate, I would try this one. you would be surprised.

http://www.100prophecies.org/page1.htm

before renouncing christianity, log in to this site. It's the first site I used when I bought my pc over four yeras ago. Don't throw it all away. Pray about it and I'll pray too.

Father, don't let this young person throw away his most precious gift........Your salvation.

Minister to him I pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

eric.

[JesusismyLord]

JIML,

Unfortunately, it seems that you are trusting worldly, unChristian sources instead of God Himself and the scriptures. By the world's standards, God doesn't exist so naturally they are going to debate with supposed "proof" that Jesus is not the Messiah and that scriptures are false.

I can tell you from my personal experience that the Bible is 100% true. When total faith and trust are placed on God and a personal, intimate relationship with Jesus is had, the very real truth, and understanding, of the Word is there to those who ask Him for it.

For every website you present with "proof" that Jesus is not the Messiah, another can be found with proof that He is. It's a never-ending merry-go-round. The real proof of Jesus is in experiencing Him personally. The infallibility of the scriptures is found in obeying and trusting them. The love of God is felt by any who call upon it.

I pray earnestly that God would speak to you and bring others in your path who will be able to help you get past your pain and the deception that you've fallen into. Risking your eternity isn't worth it.

that website is jews for jesus, its a christian website, and why is it anytime there is proof to show that Jesus may not be the messiah your answer is the typical answer. Why as humans can we not look at the evidence and make a logical decision. One can know God intimately without Jesus. Don;t you think people love God and have a relationshio with him and what they feel is real and they feel leading them without Jesus. It does happen. Look at the prophecies my freind, look at Judiasm. Just look at the groundwork of your faith in christainity and that is Judiasm.

[Fiosh]

Hi JIML,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take what you are saying at face value. God changed your life and you truly felt His presence. But now you are beginning to doubt everything you once believed to be so real. You are beginning to question whether maybe you just got carried away by the moment and it was all a big figment of your imagination.

Is that sort of what you are feeling?

Like maybe you were duped?

Understandable.

I may be wrong, but here's my guess about what may be happening.

As a Christian, you are continually fighting 2 battles. One against your own sinful nature and one against Satan himself.

You have all the weapons you need, and your victory has been secured...but you must still fight for it.

Your flesh tries to drag you down and the things of earth make it difficult to keep your spirit "tuned in" to God. It is possible that God is calling you into an even deeper relationship with Himself and you are scared to take the next step.

Does it ever feel to you that God wants you to surrender something that you are not ready to let go of???? Does it ever feel that He is asking you to follow Him into a dark place that scares you a bit? It could be that you are actually about to take a leap forward, but it feels like you are sliding back because you are hesistating.

Also, Satan does not like to see a soul moving closer to God. When you begin to move closer he will throw up roadblocks of doubt to try to trip you up.

Keep your eyes focused on Jesus. Remember Peter when he walked on the water? As long as he looked at Jesus he was fine. As soon as he looked down, he began to sink. But have no fear. Even if you begin to drown, all you gotta do is cry out, "Jesus save me!" and His hand will be in yours.

My suggestion, JIML...keep reading your Bible.....Pray even more........and beyond prayer........sit and talk to God...out loud if you wish. Tell Him your doubts and questions. And ask Him for the faith to believe.

He will never refuse the gift of the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.

It's a Bible promise.

JIML, you are not the first Christian to have doubts. It comes with the territory. I applaud your honesty in sharing them.

I will turn off my computer early tonite and pray for you---that our Father will lead you to all Truth.

God bless you, "JesusismyLord", I hope that soon you will shout that with conviction.

Peace,

Fiosh

[eric]

JIML you say,

One can know God intimately without Jesus. Don;t you think people love God and have a relationshio with him and what they feel is real and they feel leading them without Jesus. It does happen.

I feel that I must agree with Fiosh about you being duped.

Jn. 14:6. I am the way the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except throufg Me.

Now, Jesus said that not me. Judaism has nothing whatever tp do with salvation. Read Hebrews 10 and see what the apostle has to say about Judaism.

Take Fiosh's advice pray and read your bible thoroughly.

in Him,

eric.

[JesusismyLord]

Hi JIML,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take what you are saying at face value. God changed your life and you truly felt His presence. But now you are beginning to doubt everything you once believed to be so real. You are beginning to question whether maybe you just got carried away by the moment and it was all a big figment of your imagination.

I know I expeirenced God, that I do know for sure.

Is that sort of what you are feeling?

Like maybe you were duped?

Duped maybe, just shown what the NT taught and never shown what other faiths believe to test what the NT taught was absolute truth

Understandable.

I may be wrong, but here's my guess about what may be happening.

As a Christian, you are continually fighting 2 battles. One against your own sinful nature and one against Satan himself.

You have all the weapons you need, and your victory has been secured...but you must still fight for it.

speaking of Satan, we can see satan in the OT, first christians are taught that satan is this poweful enemy that is very rebellious against God and wants to be God. Thus he trcisk humans into sinning against God. Lets look at the OT to see what it says about satan. Genesis 3 is not satan, is satan livestoc, is satan a wild animail, is stan crawling on his belly, is satan eating dust all the days of his life? Its clear that this is not satan but a serpant, read the text for what it is. But if satan was so eveil towards god we can see that in 2 samuel 24:1 God incited David to take a census of Israel and Judah, which resulted in a sin by David. If we turn to 1 Chronicles 21:1 it now satan who incites david to take the census that is a sin against God. If satan works against god then why in this story does satan do exactly what god did?then we can go to Job, we see that in verse 8 it is God who asks satan if he has considered his servant Job? and again we satan do exactly as God says, he obeys God, but is not seen rebelling towards God and sinning against him, then we can see in Zechariah 3:1-2 satan standing at the right side of an angel of the Lord. The Lord says to him rebuke you satan, we dont see satan rebel towards god or disobey.

This brings me to the explaination of "Lucifer". Some say that Isaiah 14:12. "How are you fallen from heaven, O bright star [or shining one], son of the morning [or son of dawn]! how are you cut down to the ground, you who ruled the nations!" is about the "devil". Part of this is due to the fact that the term bright star or shining one is translated in Latin to lucifer, which means shining one. Now, the context of the verse and a bit of knowledge of history reviels that this is about the Babylonian empire. One of the main dieties of Babylon was "Ishtar", who was the "god" who was the morning star. Shining one, son of dawn is the morning star. The prophet was avoiding the use of the name of the not-god Ishtar. Reading verse 4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here. There is no Lucifer, no devil in the Tanach, but there are many, many adversaries and accusers of the Jewish people.

"Satan" in Biblical Hebrew is not a proper name like Bob or Frank or Tom. It is a noun meaning "adversary." The word "satan" (adversary) is used in an awful lot of places where no one thinks it means what Christians would now call Satan. E.g., Num 22:22 (the angel blocking Balaam's path -- from this week's Torah portion), 1 Sam. 29:4 (referring to David!), 2 Sam. 19:22 (referring to Avishai b. Zeruiah, one of David's hotheaded servants).

The only place in the OT is Ezekiel 28:12 that would fit the christian view of satan. But then verses 17 through 19 don't add up.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.

Your flesh tries to drag you down and the things of earth make it difficult to keep your spirit "tuned in" to God. It is possible that God is calling you into an even deeper relationship with Himself and you are scared to take the next step.

the christian life is impossible to live, whther you have god or not. No one can di it, its just a failure waiting to happen.

Does it ever feel to you that God wants you to surrender something that you are not ready to let go of???? Does it ever feel that He is asking you to follow Him into a dark place that scares you a bit? It could be that you are actually about to take a leap forward, but it feels like you are sliding back because you are hesistating.

Also, Satan does not like to see a soul moving closer to God. When you begin to move closer he will throw up roadblocks of doubt to try to trip you up.

Keep your eyes focused on Jesus. Remember Peter when he walked on the water? As long as he looked at Jesus he was fine. As soon as he looked down, he began to sink. But have no fear. Even if you begin to drown, all you gotta do is cry out, "Jesus save me!" and His hand will be in yours.

My suggestion, JIML...keep reading your Bible.....Pray even more........and beyond prayer........sit and talk to God...out loud if you wish. Tell Him your doubts and questions. And ask Him for the faith to believe.

He will never refuse the gift of the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.

It's a Bible promise.

JIML, you are not the first Christian to have doubts. It comes with the territory. I applaud your honesty in sharing them.

I will turn off my computer early tonite and pray for you---that our Father will lead you to all Truth.

God bless you, "JesusismyLord", I hope that soon you will shout that with conviction.

Peace,

Fiosh

[ayin jade]

One can know God intimately without Jesus.

One can not be saved without Jesus. A key difference.

[nebula]

Would you mind explaining this?

well since jesus was dead for 30 years....

I am a born again christian....

How can one be a born again Christian and not proclaim the resurrection if Jesus?

Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven?

If so, why would you ,ake the first statement as if He was still in the grave?

If not, how can you call yourself a Christian? (Note: what did Paul say about: "if there is no resurrection....")

that website is jews for jesus, its a christian website, and why is it anytime there is proof to show that Jesus may not be the messiah your answer is the typical answer.

Do you excpect non-Christian sources are going to acknowledge Jesus?

I don't understand the objection.

And BTW, Jews for Jesus are Jewish believers in Messiah Yeshua.

Why as humans can we not look at the evidence and make a logical decision.

I have.

One can know God intimately without Jesus. Don;t you think people love God and have a relationshio with him and what they feel is real and they feel leading them without Jesus. It does happen. Look at the prophecies my freind, look at Judiasm. Just look at the groundwork of your faith in christainity and that is Judiasm.

Let me ask you something, according to the Torah, how is sin (transgression) atoned for?

How does Judaism claim atonement from committed sons?

And can one approach God without his sins being atoned for?

Can you justify this using Torah and/or the Prophets?

(I appeal to Leviticus 17:11 )