Neighbor Posted February 18 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,724 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,117 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 18 (edited) If the Trump organization made up property valuation numbers out of thin air, just who approved those evaluations in order to lend his organizations money? What kind of fiduciary relationship might have been trespassed against by an approving lender's management, and why? Are the bankers that lent to Trump to be allowed to continue in their positions, perhaps putting large financial institutions at serious risk of failure? Edited February 28 by Neighbor Changed the title as the one word is a conclusion by a civil court judgement that is subject to potential appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 18 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,724 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,117 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted February 18 Would you lend to a man that had his companies file no less than six chapter 11 bankruptcy cases? Who are the bankers and financiers that have done that? How far will the fall out reach as Trump and associates have to come up with massive amounts of cash to satisfy the now existing liabilities they have? What of Palm Beach County assessors valuation of Mar A Lago? Will there be further fall out there? I do think this messy scene is very likely to get way worse as more and more details come out and individuals involved seek to escape this sinking ship, or flee from under the falling pieces of this house of cards. Oh Lord help us. Raise up an honest person among us as our leader of these United States of America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.54 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: What of Palm Beach County assessors valuation of Mar A Lago? From that evaluation it is obviously the cheapest piece of property in that part of Florida, so cheap it wouldn't make much sense to even sell it unless it was a bad financial investment that someone wanted to get rid of to move the money into something with more potentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel80 Posted February 18 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 96 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: If the Trump organization made up property valuation numbers out of thin air, just who approved those evaluations in order to lend his organizations money? Preface: I worked in wholesale mortgage lending at a top 5 bank. I worked in all facets of mortgage lending-back office, underwriting, processing, closing, funding, prime & subprime. And finished that career in management. Trump did not make up numbers. That is a non starter. A borrower cannot makeup numbers. A borrower CAN get an appraisal of said real property or asset prior to loan application to get an idea of the market value of the subject. A CEO... heck even a CFO is soooooo far removed from the minutiae of the loan application process that he/she would largely have no idea to how the value was arrived at. If it falls within an acceptable range... then the go-ahead is given and the employees carry the loan application process forward. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: What kind of fiduciary relationship might have been trespassed against by an approving lender's management, and why? There is NO fiduciary function between a private borrower and a private lender. It's simply a contractual exchange based and priced on risk and the ability of the borrower to repay according to the terms of the loan. Better said, all are considered "adults" in the room and you sign your name to the terms for better or worse. There could be fiduciaries on the title insurance side... or retained by the Trump company that has presented financial statements when qualifying income. Likewise, there could be fiduciaries on the lender side of things... ensuring the risk/ reward for the proposed financing makes sense on the bank side of things. The loan product could also be syndicated as many commercial transactions naturally are since the loan amounts are quite large. (Syndicated in this instance just means that more than one lender is underwriting the terms of the loan as to further spread the risk since, again, loan amounts are typically large in the commercial arena. And then you would have more fiduciaries involved... BUT not at the loan origination/ note level.) 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Are the bankers that lent to Trump to be allowed to continue in their positions, perhaps putting large financial institutions at serious risk of failure? Typically, in my experience, all employees involved in the lending arena are evaluated on metrics of loan performance. That is, if I priced loan incorrectly or had a certain percentage of loans that were underperforming (lates, rolling lates, foreclosures), material errors (bad documentation, fraud, missing documents, etc).... THEN I would be coached to improve. After which I would be given a grace period of say 6 months. If my performance or my closed loan performance continued to tank... then my employment was at risk. Now, if the fraud was blatantly intentional (like saying a borrower was employed when they were not on the verification of employment) and the loan went upside down... then I would have been dismissed immediately. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Would you lend to a man that had his companies file no less than six chapter 11 bankruptcy cases? If I had the money and the Trump companies agreed to my rate... you bet! Chapter 11's are rampant. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Who are the bankers and financiers that have done that? How far will the fall out reach as Trump and associates have to come up with massive amounts of cash to satisfy the now existing liabilities they have? I don't understand your question. What has taken place is in accordance with the what the institutions are designed to do. They lend money and they need borrowers. The borrower needs financing for a purchase or re-hab or better rate via refinancing. The fallout reaches as far as the political will to pursue Mr. Trump and his associates goes. As a prominent communist said- "Show me the man and I will show you the crime." The millions of dollars owed should be nothing for Mr. Trump... if he is who he says he is. To be sure... that amount will hurt. But most likely it will be a payment plan (funny... as that is a loan in essence) not lump sum. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: What of Palm Beach County assessors valuation of Mar A Lago? Will there be further fall out there? Palm Beach County has an accessors office... I assume the assessor is publicly elected. If so, then that is squarely on the government's shoulders/ citizens of Palm Beach and has no bearing on Mr. Trump. Tax value is simply that and typically does not reflect or lags real appraised market value. Could the conspiracy extend to the local government? You bet... not out of the realm. As we see in NYC. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: I do think this messy scene is very likely to get way worse as more and more details come out and individuals involved seek to escape this sinking ship, or flee from under the falling pieces of this house of cards. It will get more messy, absolutely, if political pursuit is continued. I am interested to see if Mr. Trump can withstand the fire. He talks a good game... so let's see more of what he is made of. 3 hours ago, Neighbor said: Oh Lord help us. Raise up an honest person among us as our leader of these United States of America. Amen! I will leave all with this truth... In a lending environment, a percentage of loans are audited in post closing/ warehousing... all employees tied to those loan are exposed to their authenticity/ performance. If a loan that is not randomly audited in post closing and it performs (the borrower repays according to the terms)... then the loan is most likely never re-opened for evaluation. That shows primarily what the bank is concerned with- performing assets. It doesn't care necessarily how the loan is repayed just as long as it is repayed. And if fraud accompanies a performing loan that is not randomly audited then... it is what it is. It's still a performing asset and no one is going to go back and undo the fraud that was done. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 18 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,724 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,117 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted February 18 8 minutes ago, Gabriel80 said: Trump did not make up numbers. That is a non starter. A borrower cannot makeup numbers. The court accepted testimony of Michael Cohen says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.54 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Neighbor said: The court accepted testimony of Michael Cohen says otherwise. It's a really long transcript involved in this case, where in Cohen's testimony was that given so that I can read and evaluate it for myself to verify what he said? Edited February 18 by FJK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.54 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 Which bank(s) filed the initial claims of fraud against Trump and what was their testimony in Court concerning their losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 18 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,724 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,117 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Author Share Posted February 18 15 minutes ago, Gabriel80 said: Chapter 11's are rampant. Yes they are! I have been stuck in district 11. We lost 2.1 million dollars to one caphter 11 filing, plus had $83,000 in attorney fee, a bargain at that. Many additional individuals and corporations took a bath on that one as well. I would sit and watch the proceedings of the other cases with the same four major attorneys popping up and down as the judge asked who represents whom in this one. All the creditors in a chapter 11 proceeding take a huge beating down, or find they have no standing at all. While it is a mixed bag for sure bankers do indeed have a fiduciary responsibility to those they advise. https://www.lenderliabilitylawyer.com/blog/76/can-sue-my-bank-breach-fiduciary-duty/ The Mar A Lago property will be a further case at Palm Beach County what with the hugely conflicting values granted versus the claims of a much greater value by The Trump group for collateral purposes.. Plus IRS will continue to be calling on the Trumps. This is only the beginning of the many cases where the Trumps will finally be called to account. While most will be civil cases with lots of latitude by a judge, a few will be criminal in nature. Right now there are four such criminal indictments against "The Donald" with some 91 counts of offense he must defend against. Perhaps, just perhaps there is a Republican with less baggage that might be better suited as a party leader and presidential candidate? If not well bye bye Republicans, and Katie bar the door as the Dems will very soon rule all three branches of government. It may not end well at all. Lord help this land's peoples, protect us from the government we might deserve. Have mercy upon us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.54 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 23 minutes ago, Neighbor said: This is only the beginning of the many cases where the Trumps will finally be called to account. You seem to be only concerned with calling Trump to account, and never seem to mention anyone else, willing to overlook all others.. Is there a reason for this? FWIW, since none of these cases seemed to pop up before Trump announced his run and did immediately after, with various Federal and State prosecutors meeting with the White House before they almost simultaneously filed charges do you think there might be some purely political weaponization of prosecutions against a political opponent going on here? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel80 Posted February 18 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 96 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: The court accepted testimony of Michael Cohen says otherwise. Sure. Maybe it does. I havent read it and don't plan to. If what Mr. Cohen stated and the value of said Trump asset(s) were blindly taken by the bank off of Trump's spoken word vs an analytical approach to market value... then that lies squarely at the feet of the financial institution. Unless Mr. Trump, his companies and/ or employees coerced or bribed the financial institution. I have no idea about the supposed/ implied violations and if they have been put forward but they would have to be in order for the court to imply trial and guilt. 1 hour ago, Neighbor said: While it is a mixed bag for sure bankers do indeed have a fiduciary responsibility to those they advise. https://www.lenderliabilitylawyer.com/blog/76/can-sue-my-bank-breach-fiduciary-duty/ No. The article is incorrect. It is classic lawyer speak for "reading between the lines." Bank employees and financial advisors DO have an obligation to ensure the borrower has basic knowledge of the financial product they want access to. (And the Federal Government, state & municipal entities do as well with the many disclosures that are signed and executed when a loan product is closed.) Bank employees cannot engage in predatory lending. Bank employees cannot mislead customers. There is a difference between a licensed fiduciary and acting in the customers best interest. This most plays out in the equity/ bond markets with financial advisors or the insurance world. For instance and play along with me... if a borrower approaches me with a property he wants to purchase. We get the appraisal, pull title, his credit, verify assets, income, liabilities, employment... then underwriting... then approval. We go to formalize the loan... and we discuss terms. I present him with 3 options... a 30-year, fixed rate @ 8.75%.... a 15-year, fixed rate @ 7.75%... and a 40 year, fixed rate @ 11.5%. WHAT loan product IS BEST for him? Well... anyone of them potentially are. There is no right/ wrong answer. It depends on the borrowers personal judgement and the situation that he wants to find his economic life in the coming years. That's why there is zero fiduciary responsibility between a loan officer and a purchasing borrower. A bank employee should not be held responsible for whichever way the wind blows. There are laws that govern the mortgage transactions but never in my time of lending did one speak of me being a fiduciary, whether that was in government law training, vua the bank's HR role training, or elsewhere among the institutions I was employed with. Let it be noted and I have seen it... that often time what is in the customers best interest is non-approval of a certain transaction but then that can open the bank to certain lawsuits... along the lines of race/ sex/ sexual status/ dog or cat lover / etc. And that brings me to my final point... yes, you can bring suit for virtually anything and typically have standing. I just dont see the need for a public prosecution of private matter. If Trump & Co. Is involved in fraud/ violations of the financial instruments terms... then the bank should be bringing suit to Trump. If the the shoe is on the other foot and Trump feels he was done wrong... then he should have sued the bank. I dont understand why the 3rd party of NYC is involved here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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