Don't be deceived

[RdJ]

9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Luke 21 says the same thing zech 14 says about the day of the Lord.

The day of the Lord was not in 70 ad.The day of he Lord is when the Lord comes and stands upon the Mt of olives.

Here again Amos says the people of Israel will be cast out on the day of the Lord.

Amos 5

“Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings

    forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
²⁶ You have lifted up the shrine of your king,
    the pedestal of your idols,
    the star of your god^[b]—
    which you made for yourselves.
²⁷ Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,”
    says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.

No one can say they have not been warned.

 

They will be cast out yes. That is what already happened. You believe it will happen again? Then Jesus won't come back.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
Matthew 23:37‭-‬39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.23.37-39.NKJV

Edited February 24 by Renskedejonge

[Shilohsfoal]

38 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

They will be cast out yes. That is what already happened. You believe it will happen again? Then Jesus won't come back.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
Matthew 23:37‭-‬39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.23.37-39.NKJV

So you say the Israelis who are killed in Israel for their testimony of Jesus will not be resurected by Jesus?

You believe they die for nothing?

[RdJ]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you say the Israelis who are killed in Israel for their testimony of Jesus will not be resurected by Jesus?

You believe they die for nothing?

No but I believe that all Israel and Jerusalem will accept Him. And I believe that Jewish christians get raptured before the ac comes (Revelation 12 male child) and the rest of Israel gets a safe place protected against the dragon. The 144.000 plus christians who missed the rapture get the uncountable multitude in in the first 3,5 years and then everyone gets killed if they don't take the mark, but Israel will be safe. I may be wrong there, cause those end time explanations are often gentile centered. This would mean that only gentile believers reign 1000 years, which would be weird.

 

Romans 11

blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

 

Verse 25 the uncountable multitude comes in in the first 3,5 years, so after that their blindness is gone (because they see the ac is satanic) and then all Israel is saved and they get protected.

Edited February 24 by Renskedejonge

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Renskedejonge said:

No but I believe that all Israel and Jerusalem will accept Him. And I believe that Jewish christians get raptured before the ac comes (Revelation 12 male child) and the rest of Israel gets a safe place protected against the dragon and the 144.000 plus christians who missed the rapture get the uncountable multitude in in the first 3,5 years and then when everyone gets killed if they don't take the mark, but Israel will be safe. I may be wrong there, cause those end time explanations are often gentile centered. This would mean that only gentile believers reign 1000 years, which would be weird.

 

Romans 11

blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

I guess you don't realize the people you say repent are in fact antichrist.

In fact the Israeli government is antichrist.I don't know of any christians in Israel's government.

 

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
 

 

And no,those saints who reign with Christ for 1000 years are not gentiles,they are all Israelis who are killed testifying of Christ to Israelis.

They are betrayed to death by their own family members as you have read .If you have been reading my posts quoting the gospel.

[RdJ]

3 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I guess you don't realize the people you say repent are in fact antichrist.

In fact the Israeli government is antichrist.I don't know of any christians in Israel's government.

 

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
 

 

And no,those saints who reign with Christ for 1000 years are not gentiles,they are all Israelis who are killed testifying of Christ to Israelis.

They are betrayed to death by their own family members as you have read .If you have been reading my posts quoting the gospel.

Saul was behaving quite antichristian, killing christians and he got saved.

 

[farouk]

Just now, Renskedejonge said:

Saul was behaving quite antichristian, killing christians and he got saved.

 

@Renskedejonge What a transformation by God's grace in Saul's life, who became a 'chosen vessel' as the Apostle Paul......!

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The Muslims kill the Jews because they don't want them there.

Understand?

The hadith

The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him'

Much more than that.  Satan is behind EVERY anti-semetic movement on earth.

Why?  Becuase if Satan can literally wipe out the Jews, then God will not be able to fulfill all the future promises He made to them.

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans.

Anti-semetism is one of the "doctrines of demons" that Paul mentioned in 1 Tim 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

[RdJ]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:29 AM, Charlie744 said:

Ok, I guess we can cut to the chase here. I completed a 5 year study on Daniel. Prior to the beginning I had not read Daniel and was only familiar with the cute children’s stories - lion den scene, handwriting on the wall, etc. 

Consequently, it was necessary that I read the commentaries by the leading commentators / interpreters that have produced “today’s accepted interruptions.” 
 

However, I found there was NO consensus among these brilliant, academic, scholarly theologians. This really surprised me since they all had access to the same Scriptures- especially Daniel. 
 

I found there may have been two major camps on most of the critical verses. Therefore, I had to become familiar with both views and try and determine if one or the other made sense or perhaps neither had a reasonable interpretation. 
 

For me, I believe most of today’s interpretations for those “critical” verses are wrong on both sides of the fence. Despite the two different set of interpretations, the common denominator was that both camps insisted on using a “historical” approach to interpret Daniel. Meaning, they attempted to interpret Daniel by looking to our history books to confirm their interpretations. In the first few chapters they can easily be found to match the known kingdoms and kings- Alexander, Cyrus, Babylon and of course Rome. But when the later chapters in Daniel become more spiritual or symbolic, and they (events and actors) in Daniel no longer can be matched to those in our history books, they are thrown some 2000 years into the future and declared they have yet to come see place. But that is so wrong!

And unfortunately, the most important and messianic chapter in the OT- Daniel chapter 9, is the one that has been grossly misinterpreted- intentionally or not. 
 

To sum it up - only when I left the attempts to match the important verses to our history books and tried to see if and how they spoke of the coming Messiah and His plan of salvation, did I discover a completely new set of interpretations. And these interpretations were / are not on- offs, if you will, they offer a consistent set of interpretations from Daniel 1-12. They all speak of His story. 
 

So, I believe I answered your first question ( sorry for being so long winded). 
 

Now, since you asked a very specific question (which is so, so important in Daniel), AND by ONLY answering it in a few comments WITHOUT providing all the supporting/ related verses that go along with this particular interpretation, I will give you my interpretation on the AOD- the abomination that causes desolate ( we can agree to disagree- no problem since it will be so difficult to bring everything in to discuss this). 
 

Three important points:

1) what is the “abomination”, 

2) what is meant be “desolation,”

3) timing of this event - both sides (when the abomination took place and the length of the desolation.

 

ABOMINATION 

Almost all commentators contend this is a “physical” destruction of something- usually the Temple. It is one of 3: the destruction or the defilement of the Temple by Antiochus? The destruction of the second Temple in 70 AD, or the mythical 3rd Temple still yet to be built. 
 

But I do not believe any of these have any merit. First, the Temple was already completely destroyed by Babylon. Secondly, the cross did away with the Levitical system, the need for animal sacrifices, the need for a Temple, etc. After the cross, their mission was fulfilled and of no further importance. And regardless of how the Jews still reject their Messiah, it is no longer important to God.

So, whatever this event is that can rise to the level of an “abomination”, it MUST EXCEED ANYTHING THST HAS YET TO BE SEEN DURING THE JEWISH HISTORY (they have been guilty of disobeying God and turn to idolatry so many times- this “transgression” must be unbelievably horrific. 
 

And it is! The “abomination” is the Jews rejecting their Messiah and crucifying Him on the cross. This is the most horrific, sinful act against their God that anyone could imagine.

DESOLATION 

So, in the past (Babylon), God completely destroyed Jerusalem, His people, the Temple… everything was either completely destroyed or taken away to Babylon. The Jews were effectively removed from the face and the earth and Jerusalem was gone- all because they continued their disobey their God. But now, they crucified God, consequently, this level of transgression would require a much greater punishment. Because of the Cross, God would remove Himself from His people for the next 2000 years. Their God would now turn His face away from them. He would become completely “desolate” to His people. Nothing could be more of a punishment than this . They have been without their God for rejecting Him and then crucifying Him. 
 

So, the “abomination” (cross) is the event that caused their complete “desolation” from their God for over 2000 years. 
 

TIMING

As a result, this is NOT an end time event. It represents the most horrific event in the history of the world. 
 

And to go back to my initial comments, the book of Daniel is all about the coming Messiah (first advent), and setting up His kingdom (church). Daniel is not a history book to be matched to our history books. He will include only those events and actors WITHIN His plan of salvation. He will also exclude any actual events or actors that can be found in our history books that are NOT found within His plan of salvation. 
 

This is ONLY one of the critical new interpretations found in Daniel (my findings).

Hope this makes sense. Daniel is all about Him and it was written to and for the Jews for them to read, study and await their coming Messiah. Approximately 80-90 % of Daniel covers the period from 606 BC to 500 AD when the little horn (papacy) of  Daniel 7,8 comes to replace pagan Rome. 

No if they had all accepted Him the cross would not have caused desolation, so then the rejecting would be the abomination. I once thought it was the rock of the dome. What an ugly thing.

And it's after they are sent out of the country for 2000 years and there were wars and everything.

Matthew 24 the abomination is in the end just before He comes back.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:14‭-‬15‭, ‬17‭-‬22 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.24.14-22.NKJV

[RdJ]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Much more than that.  Satan is behind EVERY anti-semetic movement on earth.

Why?  Becuase if Satan can literally wipe out the Jews, then God will not be able to fulfill all the future promises He made to them.

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans.

Anti-semetism is one of the "doctrines of demons" that Paul mentioned in 1 Tim 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

I was reading something about the giants yesterday and I saw that they were in Gaza. Goliath also came from there if I read it correct. And I thought: Hey those demons are still there and now inspire Hamas.

[farouk]

15 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

No if they had all accepted Him the cross would not have caused desolation, so then the rejecting would be the abomination. I once thought it was the rock of the dome. What an ugly thing.

And it's after they are sent out of the country for 2000 years and there were wars and everything.

Matthew 24 the abomination is in the end just before He comes back.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:14‭-‬15‭, ‬17‭-‬22 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.24.14-22.NKJV

@Renskedejonge I do think Matthew 24 - and Luke 21 - refer to the Great Tribulation after the church has been taken.