Don't be deceived

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

.

That would mean Satan is able to thwart God's plans.

 

That sounds like a teaching of demons.

You should know better than believe Satan can thwart God's plans.

[Shilohsfoal]

30 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

Saul was behaving quite antichristian, killing christians and he got saved.

 

And there could be more like Saul.

But scripture shows 144000 are sealed.Not ten million.

[RdJ]

3 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And there could be more like Saul.

But scripture shows 144000 are sealed.Not ten million.

The 144000 are the ones who go preach and get the harvest in.

 

saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:3‭-‬11‭, ‬13‭-‬14 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.7.3-14.NKJV

 

Uncountable multitude is from all tribes, so also from Israel I suppose. These come from the trib and were killed and will reign 1000 years with Christ.

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.20.4.NKJV

 

The 144000 are first fruits. Sounds like they get raptured. First means there will be more. I once read that an olive tree had a harvest of first fruits and later the rest.

 

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Revelation 14:1‭-‬5 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.14.1-5.NKJV

 

 

 

[RdJ]

24 minutes ago, farouk said:

@Renskedejonge I do think Matthew 24 - and Luke 21 - refer to the Great Tribulation after the church has been taken.

Yes I think so too.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, Renskedejonge said:

The 144000 are the ones who go preach and get the harvest in.

 

saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:3‭-‬11‭, ‬13‭-‬14 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.7.3-14.NKJV

 

Uncountable multitude is from all tribes, so also from Israel I suppose. These come from the trib and were killed and will reign 1000 years with Christ.

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.20.4.NKJV

 

The 144000 are first fruits. Sounds like they get raptured. First means there will be more. I once read that an olive tree had a harvest of first fruits and later the rest.

 

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Revelation 14:1‭-‬5 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.14.1-5.NKJV

 

 

 

The 144000 are of the tribes of Israel .

The great multitude are on the nations.

 

We are not discussing all the nations that are saved on the day of the Lord.We are discussing 144000 of Israel being saved and approx 9,900,000 that are not

 

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

Yes I think so too.

Mathew 24 and Luke 21 talks about the church in Israel being persecuted ,beaten and killed in Israel before the great tribulation.Only some of the church in Israel survive till the end.

Edited February 24 by Shilohsfoal

[RdJ]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The 144000 are of the tribes of Israel .

The great multitude are on the nations.

 

We are not discussing all the nations that are saved on the day of the Lord.We are discussing 144000 of Israel being saved and approx 9,900,000 that are not

 

If the great multitude is only the nations then these reign with Christ, says the text I copy pasted.

The 144000 are first fruits. Not all Israel that will be saved and they are evangelists.

And they are virgin men. All the married Jews and women don't get saved?

Edited February 24 by Renskedejonge

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

If the great multitude is only the nations then these reign with Christ, says the text I copy pasted.

The 144000 are first fruits. Not all Israel that will be saved and they are evangelists.

This is what you copied and pasted about the great multitute.Show me where it says the great multitude reigns with Christ.

 

I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[RdJ]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

This is what you copied and pasted about the great multitute.Show me where it says the great multitude reigns with Christ.

 

I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Here, those come from the tribulation:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.20.4.NKJV

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

Here, those come from the tribulation:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.20.4.NKJV

These saints die before the great tribulation.

These are the saints that die before the abomination of desolation is placed.The great multitude haven't died.They are saved during the great tribulation .

 

Big difference 

Edited February 24 by Shilohsfoal