Your closest friendnt Posted March 9 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,884 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,772 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9 (edited) On 3/7/2024 at 9:39 AM, Ray12614 said: Hi: Regarding the some who 'blast' my various view points, I only mentioned it to expose them should they read what I said. Personally, I learned a long time ago that I won't be appreciated by everyone I have contact with, and thats okay. We all are a work in process . . . right? So I try to let that stuff run off me like water off a ducks back. IF I cannot take criticism after 40+ years of being a Christian, then I have issues. LOL. The book sounds interesting, and the middle is probably a good place to be unless it involves hard fast doctrines of the scriptures. We can never compromise on the truth of the Word. We can attempt to convince those who 'oppose themselves' as scripture tells us to do: 2Ti 2:23-26 KJV [23] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Thanks for your reply! This is not an argument about versions of the Bible but it is about the verse 25 that it is posted in bold. Why is it posted in bold? What is it about this verse? Are you trying to bring to our attention that this verse is not found in the specific part of 2 Timothy 2:25? That's what I thought, that I should check it out and I look in the bible and it is not there. The words in 2 Timothy 2:25 are not the same and the meaning is different than the meaning of the words that are posted in the post in question. Now this is the question, how would it be possibly for any reader to know the specific meaning of the message the original writer of the this verse wanted to imprint in the mind of the readers, when the specific meaning it cannot be derived from the recording of the wording of the words in the verse as it is bolded posted in the post? On the other hand someone nay asked the question as to why choose to post this verse as it is ? Is it because of trust in the version? Is it after considering other versions and then deciding on this one? Is it after thinking and checking the original and deciding that the posting was closer to original in this version than the other ones? Edited March 10 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted March 9 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 669 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 752 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 9 3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is not an argument about versions of the Bible but it is about the verse 25 that it is posted in bold. Why is it posted in bold? What is it about this verse? Are you trying to bring to our attention that this verse is not found in the specific part of 2 Timothy 2:25? That's what I thought, that I should check it out and I look in the bible and it is not there. The words in 2 Timothy 2:25 are not the same and the meaning is different than the meaning of the words that are posted in the post in question. Now this is the question, how would it be possibly for any reader to know the specific meaning of the message the original writer of the this verse wanted to imprint in the mind of the readers, when the specific meaning it cannot be derived from the recording of the wording of the words in the verse as it is bolded posted in the post? On the other hand someone nay asked the question as to why choose to post this verse as it is ? Is it because of trust in the version? Is it after considering other versions and then deciding on this one? Is it after thinking and checking the original and deciding that the posting was closer to original in this version than the other ones? I bolded simply to call attention to words of the verse that many times are ignored. Of course it is not bolded in various translations . . . I am pointing out that should we need to correct those who oppose the Truth of Gods Word we should do it by instructing them in an meek (gentle) manor. And yes, I bolded those words again . . . LOL Not sure that answers your comment but thanks for the input . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted March 10 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,449 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,530 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10 (edited) 14 hours ago, Ray12614 said: Okay, please explain this. What group of people are you referring to? From Revelation we see that anybody whose name is not found in the Lambs book of life is cast into the lake of fire? I am in agreement here. An explanation is needed to verify that statement. Never heard of that before, but is willing to listen. The below is what I read in scripture. John 3:3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 14 hours ago, Ray12614 said: Okay, please explain this. What group of people are you referring to? From Revelation we see that anybody whose name is not found in the Lambs book of life is cast into the lake of fire? Edited March 10 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,884 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,772 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ray12614 said: I bolded simply to call attention to words of the verse that many times are ignored. Of course it is not bolded in various translations . . . I am pointing out that should we need to correct those who oppose the Truth of Gods Word we should do it by instructing them in an meek (gentle) manor. And yes, I bolded those words again . . . LOL Not sure that answers your comment but thanks for the input . . . No it was not about the bolding, it was about the words in the bolding statement which are a mistraslation from the original and deferred front the other transactions. those that oppose themselves You said this means; "those who oppose the Truth of Gods Word" And how did you get this meaning from the bolded words above. That's another observation. Edited March 10 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted March 10 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 669 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 752 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: No it was not about the bolding, it was about the words in the bolding statement which are a mistraslation from the original and deferred front the other transactions. those that oppose themselves You said this means; "those who oppose the Truth of Gods Word" And how did you get this meaning from the bolded words above. That's another observation. This verse talks about them aknowledging the truth, so I believe that is an correct interpretation (not translation). Ok, so go ahead and tell me what that verse means . I am listening . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,884 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,772 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10 (edited) On 3/10/2024 at 8:31 AM, Ray12614 said: This verse talks about them aknowledging the truth, so I believe that is an correct interpretation (not translation). Ok, so go ahead and tell me what that verse means . I am listening . . . I am glad to see that you are interested in discussing what the verse means. And perhaps we can do that by acknowledging that the incorrect translation of part of verse 25, in 2 Timothy ch 2. The translation is a big issue in it self but at your request we are asked to comment about the quidance in the context at first and then what can we learn from it and perhaps use it as a mirror to judge our selves. There is the example at hand as it has unfolded between you and myself. Our example can be distinguish from the example in the passage at hand in that, that neither one of us is in a place of exercising authority over the other who is claiming to have the truth. And as someone in authority as the leader of a group demands that those who disagree should be "corrected" to speak (regardless of what they think) like the leader of the group. In the example in Timothy the guidance was spoken to Timothy from Paul and from his experience in handling situations like that. The set up is Timothy and the believers in his congregation and perhaps the visitors in his meetings and Bible discussion groups. Timothy is not Jesus and he is not all knowing as a matter of fact he is quite young for this role in that environment with the Kretans. Paul is telling him not to demand blind royalty or obedience from the people but to find the opportunity to used questions that may oppose his understanding whether are about the truth of the Gospel or about structure of the group. Like how to handle people from the Circumcision group who may visit their group. The opportunity will be given to Timothy to communicate to them his beliefs and why, and not from authority but from Scriptural support about the changes that took place with the New Covenant and the settings aside of the Covenant of Sinai which included the Circumcision and the cleansing laws and the beginning of the ministry of the Spirit the people in the spirit of Jesus Christ. And I mean a lot about that. Paul is telling Timothy that Jesus has given you also a ministry to other Christian groups but instant of you going to them He will sent them to you and you should welcome them in his name. That includes they will visit Timothy with their own agenda in mind, and Jesus will motivate them to visit Timothy with their own propose in mind and perhaps they would have never gone, but thinking they are in a mission from God they will go wanting to win Timothy in their Circumcision group. Timothy not to see them as the enemy but use this opportunity to discuss the issues at hand with them. Like when Jesus said "you showed them hungry and gave them something to eat" "you showed them thirsty and you gave them something to drink", we should leave the door open for discussion. Edited March 11 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 11 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,658 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 11 I believe one of the major differences is what we go after as believers, or what we prioritize. What are our priorities? What do we value? Why? A person's priorities will show what they value. I am reminded of the parable of the pearl of great price that when found everything else is vanity. The things that once seemed important are no longer important. We go after the things of the Spirit now. Nothing wrong with wealth or those sorts of things if they are in their proper places. If you knew you had a limited time on this earth short term life, what would you do? I think the answer shows us a lot. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted March 11 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 669 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 752 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11 18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: I am glad to see that you are interested in discussing what the verse means. And perhaps we can do that by acknowledging that the incorrect translation of part of verse 25, in 2 Timothy ch 2. The translation is a big issue in it self but at your request we are asked to comment about the quidance in the context at first and then what can we learn from it and perhaps use it as a mirror to judge our selves. There is the example at hand as it has unfolded between you and myself. Our example can be distinguish from the example in the passage at hand in that, that neither one of us is in a place of exercising authority over the other who is claiming to have the truth. And as someone in authority as the leader of a group demands that those who disagree should be "corrected" to speak (regardless of what they think) like the leader of the group. In the example in Timothy the guidance was spoken to Timothy from Paul and from his experience in handling situations like that. The set up is Timothy and the believers in his congregation and perhaps the visitors in his meetings and Bible discussion groups. Timothy is not Jesus and he is not all knowing as a matter of fact he is quite young for this role in that environment with the Kretans. Paul is telling him not to demand blind royalty or obedience from the people but to find the opportunity to used questions that may oppose his understanding whether are about the truth of the Gospel or about structure of the group. Like how to handle people from the Circumcision group who may visit their group. The opportunity will be given to Timothy to communicate to them his beliefs and why, and not from authority but from Scriptural support about the changes that took place with the New Covenant and the settings aside of the Covenant of Sinai which included the Circumcision and the cleansing laws and the beginning of the ministry of the Spirit the people in the spirit of Jesus Christ. And I mean a lot about that. Paul is telling Timothy that Jesus has given you also a ministry to other Christian groups but instant of you going to them He will sent them to you and you should welcome them in his name. That includes they will visit Timothy with their own agenda in mind, and Jesus will motivate them to visit Timothy with their own propose in mind and perhaps they will never go but thinking they are in a mission from God they will go to win Timothy in their Circumcision group. Timothy not to see them as the enemy but use this opportunity to discuss the issues at hand with them. Like when Jesus said "you sow them hungry and gave them something to eat" "you show them thirsty and you gave them something to drink", we should leave the door open for discussion. Thank you for your thoughtfully worded reply. Very appreciated by me. Agreed about the Circumcision being a 'group' that always tried to bring the early church away from the truth of the Gospel. I never thought of relating that to this particular verse. Thanks for mentioning that point. Agreed about various groups 'opposing Timothy's gospel truths' and how their opposition can be an opening to minister the truth of Gods Word to them. I think that we were saying the same thing, but, possibly I worded it incorrectly. I didn't mean to exclude mentioning translation issues, but it probably would leave the intent of the latest posting replies. However, possibly we might DM each other regarding translation and some of the tools you use to study with, and other like topics. I am interested in that, but, again this OP is probably not the place for us to discuss those things. Again thank you for your reply and insights . . . Grace and Peace . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,884 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,772 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11 (edited) 23 hours ago, Ray12614 said: Thank you for your thoughtfully worded reply. Very appreciated by me. Agreed about the Circumcision being a 'group' that always tried to bring the early church away from the truth of the Gospel. I never thought of relating that to this particular verse. Thanks for mentioning that point. Agreed about various groups 'opposing Timothy's gospel truths' and how their opposition can be an opening to minister the truth of Gods Word to them. I think that we were saying the same thing, but, possibly I worded it incorrectly. I didn't mean to exclude mentioning translation issues, but it probably would leave the intent of the latest posting replies. However, possibly we might DM each other regarding translation and some of the tools you use to study with, and other like topics. I am interested in that, but, again this OP is probably not the place for us to discuss those things. Again thank you for your reply and insights . . . Grace and Peace . . . . We have to allow our selfs to connect with the thoughts of our own hearts. Our inner self also thinks. The simple words to say it is that we can think of what we deposit in our selves but we should think intepentedly of that. We can do that by considering the context of the time line. We can asked the questions what were the issues within the different believing groups at that time which were different from the issues in our time. (Paul never spoke to judge the Circumcision group as not being saved, he spoke to help that group not to trouble themselves by believing and judging that those who were not Circumcised were not saved, were lost, condemned and not in Christ, being seperated from Jesus Christ and the Heavenly Father). Paul recognized the drive of the group to sent missionaries to the groups of believers under Paul's quidance driven by their beliefs that they were not saved without the Circumcision and that's why Paul said about them that they are trying to saved the saved people who are also believers in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. Paul did not care perhaps after trying with endless discussions to convince them not to Circumcised them selfs and how can he do that when some of them were Circumcised before they believed in Jesus Christ just like himself. The point he was making was that we are in Jesus Christ and in the Heavenly Father because Jesus Christ is in the Heavenly Father without the Circumcision and that Circumcised believers are also included because of believing in Jesus Christ, and look at that Jesus Christ is Circumcised and he is one with the Heavenly Father who is not Circumcised and cannot be or it is impossible to be Circumcised because He does not have a body of flesh. Or take a look at those who believed after they had died, the dead of the Nations of the world called Gentiles to whom Jesus Christ preached the good news to them after his death on the Cross, and include the people of God from Adam to Noah and from Noah to Abraham which includes the Father of Abraham and others not known to us such as Melhisedec before Abraham and contemporary to Abraham who were not in the Circumcision of the Covenant God made with Abraham and were not Circumcised, and when Jesus was also in the place of the dead after his death on the Cross and He was in the Life Giving Spirit and they believed in him for the forgiveness of their sins in his name in his sacrifice in his blood, forgiveness of sins in him. All those people they believed while they were without their bodies. And it was impossible to Circumcised them. And Abraham and all the Circumcised people with him they were called to believe and be in Jesus Christ as they were without their flesh but having the Circumcision in the flesh but were told inspite their Circumcision that they will be lost if they did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of God and joint him like Abraham joint him. They had to joint Jesus Christ whom Abraham had joint and now was in the Kingdom of the Heavenly Father which the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. When soon Abraham will follow Jesus Christ when he lives this place and they will be left behind and without Abraham which means they once were in Abraham but now they are not and those of the children of Abraham and Esau and their descendants who were not in Abraham (even though Circumcised) now they were with Abraham because Abraham is with Jesus Christ and they also are in Jesus Christ and together with Abraham because they gave heed and believe in the message Jesus Christ preached to them while still in the Place of the dead and before his resurrection. And in my next post I will show how it can connect to the theme of the OP with due respect. PS Please bear with me because I post from an IPhone and I get tired. It took me more than an hour to type and to edit the post. Edited March 12 by Your closest friendnt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted March 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,317 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,343 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, Starise said: If you knew you had a limited time on this earth short term life, what would you do? I think the answer shows us a lot. We only persist upon this earth for a little while, brother; our time in this world is like a passing breeze. As a reminder that I have no cause to boast nor glory in the pursuit of vanity, I live with depression. The Lord is pleased to leave this affliction with me so at no time the enemy may declare, "You have it too easy. God spoils you!" I don't struggle to hear the Lord for He is always near; I lack nothing, for it pleases God to give what was denied to me for close to 40 years on this earth: a place to rest my bones. Peace. Stability. The promise that, when my time on this earth is done, the Lord will gather me to Himself. I suffer. I look upon all that the Lord has given, and I despair. Nothing on this earth endures forever. It was better when I had nothing, looking for food in dumpsters or in exchange for a day's labor, because during those years I had nothing to lose. Ah, but even then, I was mistaken. I still had much to lose, my friend. I didn't know until the rest was taken from me. I lost everything except for the life in this body. I begged the Lord to destroy me, and there are times when I still do; this depression never leaves. It's the legacy of this flesh and that house I was born into. While it's true that I no longer have to wage war against psychotic depression --- the most severe form of depression there is --- what remains is formidable. This is not a matter of proper believing or faith, for the Lord is always with me, and I am always with Him. The depression comes, and all I can do is endure until it passes. Surely, I have no palpable reasons to struggle with depression... the Lord has done so much, and I have witnessed His power accomplish the impossible more than once. What consumes me, then? The vanity. I witness the vanity ever so clearly, and I despair. This is mine to overcome. My enemy can never accuse the Lord of spoiling me by any means. God, in His wisdom, has silenced the tongue of the wicked one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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