How We Are All Different From Unbelievers?, How We Are All Alike

[Ray12614]

23 hours ago, Starise said:

Yes, it comes naturally to us if we follow Christ.

Not just love each other, not just love our enemy, make friends with them. Not out of necessity, but because this is my inner desire. It really is. It's easy to love your team, but should also be easy to love the other team. Seeing them through the eyes of Jesus helps.

So who are these people and why do they like to blast you? It's only ok if it is done in love. If they are not true believers then some leeway is granted IMO.

I think this should be brought out frequently. I am reading a book currently that talks about the middle ground in theology and I agree with the ideas of that author.

The book is " The Quest For The Radical Middle" by Bill Jackson.

Theology tends to tip either too legalistic or too much emphasis on 'gifts' and we have seen these different streams emerge as confined boxes. The trick is to be in the middle. Don't discount what the Lord is doing and what He can do, yet we need  basis. 

There are also theologically educated unbelievers. I have heard the testimonies of pastors in seminary who said they were not believers who only later got saved.

Worldly passion infecting spiritual men is real problem too. One of the traits of false teachers who were never real to begin with is their propensity towards immorality. Are they carnal unsaved or infected saved? 

This whole time we have a world looking on at this mess. Just look at our daily members list visitor, visitor, visitor....on and on it goes.

Once again a lot of this is turned inward when our effectiveness is outward.

Hi: Regarding the some who 'blast' my various view points, I only mentioned it to expose them should they read what I said. Personally, I learned a long time ago that I won't be appreciated by everyone I have contact with, and thats okay. We all are a work in process . . . right? So I try to let that stuff run off me like water off a ducks back. IF I cannot take criticism after 40+ years of being a Christian, then I have issues. LOL.

The book sounds interesting, and the middle is probably a good place to be unless it involves hard fast doctrines of the scriptures. We can never compromise on the truth of the Word. We can attempt to convince those who 'oppose themselves' as scripture tells us to do:

2Ti 2:23-26 KJV [23] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Starise]

7 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Hi: Regarding the some who 'blast' my various view points, I only mentioned it to expose them should they read what I said. Personally, I learned a long time ago that I won't be appreciated by everyone I have contact with, and thats okay. We all are a work in process . . . right? So I try to let that stuff run off me like water off a ducks back. IF I cannot take criticism after 40+ years of being a Christian, then I have issues. LOL.

The book sounds interesting, and the middle is probably a good place to be unless it involves hard fast doctrines of the scriptures. We can never compromise on the truth of the Word. We can attempt to convince those who 'oppose themselves' as scripture tells us to do:

2Ti 2:23-26 KJV [23] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Thanks for your reply!

 

Thanks Ray,

I am not cessationist. I don't go around pushing that view. I have many brothers who are and we agree to disagree. Not being cessationist does not mean I believe God will work miraculous in every situation. It just means that I think He still can and does work the miraculous, that demons never went anywhere and still possess people and need to be cast out. That God gifts some people to know things.

 

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, Starise said:

Oh not at all trust me. I was responding to @Marilyn C who was saying the outside is not important.

Morning Starise,

I`m sorry if you got that impression but that is not what I said or meant.

Jesus exhorted them -

"Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also." (Matt. 23: 26)

I think we are trying to get the outside all sparkling new, whereas the Lord says it is the inside that needs the attention first. 

[Starise]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Morning Starise,

I`m sorry if you got that impression but that is not what I said or meant.

Jesus exhorted them -

"Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also." (Matt. 23: 26)

I think we are trying to get the outside all sparkling new, whereas the Lord says it is the inside that needs the attention first. 

Oh I see now. Thank you for taking the time to clarify @Marilyn C

Yes in that instance they needed to work on the inside. What I see here are some believers who like to keep a tight circle. Do we want a part on helping others or not?

I have seen you minstering and I know you were active in that, and words o wisdom will never go out of style.

My primary ideas were more about outward focus to the lost and new believers. If we spend all our lives working on 'us' when will we be able to help 'them'?

[Starise]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:39 AM, Ray12614 said:

2Ti 2:23-26 KJV [23] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [24] And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; [26] And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I wanted to comment on this. I think it's a great scripture. 

I find "oppose themselves" to be a very interesting thought. Anyone who opposes God opposes themselves. Because anything contrary to God is also contrary to his creations.

Is that how you see this ?

[Your closest friendnt]

3 minutes ago, Starise said:

I wanted to comment on this. I think it's a great scripture. 

I find "oppose themselves" to be a very interesting thought. Anyone who opposes God opposes themselves. Because anything contrary to God is also contrary to his creations.

Is that how you see this ?

2 Timothy 2:25

*Strong'sGreekEnglishMorphology

1722 ἐν
in

4240 πραΰτητι
gentleness

3811 παιδεύοντα
disciplining

3588 τοὺς
those

475 ἀντιδιατιθεμένους,
opposing

3361 μή
lest

4219 ποτε
ever

1325 δώῃ
may give

846 αὐτοῖς
them

3588 ὁ
ho

2316 Θεὸς
God

3341 μετάνοιαν
repentance

1519 εἰς
unto

1922 ἐπίγνωσιν
knowledge

225 ἀληθείας,
of [the] truth,

[Starise]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

2 Timothy 2:25

*Strong'sGreekEnglishMorphology

1722 ἐν
in

4240 πραΰτητι
gentleness

3811 παιδεύοντα
disciplining

3588 τοὺς
those

475 ἀντιδιατιθεμένους,
opposing

3361 μή
lest

4219 ποτε
ever

1325 δώῃ
may give

846 αὐτοῖς
them

3588 ὁ
ho

2316 Θεὸς
God

3341 μετάνοιαν
repentance

1519 εἰς
unto

1922 ἐπίγνωσιν
knowledge

225 ἀληθείας,
of [the] truth,

Similarly 1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

 

What is the goal?

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Similarly 1 Peter 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

 

What is the goal?

 

In this context Peter was telling the believers to Sanctity the Lord God in their hearts.

(And the question is how can they do that?)

 There was the element of family or community persecution for the Jewish believers but not for the Ethnic believers at that time.

And this is how the believers had to Sanctity Jesus Christ in their heart was by telling those who askes them what is the reason they have believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or why they left their family beliefs. And to do that in meekness without Judgement and in Love with kindness not by doom and doom. 

Peter makes the point that believers in Jesus Christ should learn and be able to tell why they are believers in Jesus when they are asked by their families and others. In this strict context Peter is telling them what they should do when they are asked. 

And with discretion. 

This is not the same context as in Timothy 2 2:25 when the instruction is given to Timothy as the teacher pastor of the Christian congregation and how to deal with those who opposed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and or who may raise opposition to doctrinal issues. 

Edited March 8 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In this context Peter was telling the believers to Sanctity the Lord God in their hearts.

(And the question is how can they do that?)

 There was the element of family or community persecution for the Jewish believers but not for the Ethnic believers at that time.

And this is how the believers had to Sanctity Jesus Christ in their heart was by telling those who askes them what is the reason they have believed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or why they left their family beliefs. And to do that in meekness without Judgement and in Love with kindness not by doom and doom. 

Peter makes the point that believers in Jesus Christ should learn and be able to tell why they are believers in Jesus when they are asked by their families and others. In this strict context Peter is telling them what they should do when they are asked. 

And with discretion. 

This is not the same context as in Timothy 2 2:25 when the instruction is given to Timothy as the teacher pastor of the Christian congregation and how to deal with those who opposed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and or who may raise opposition to doctrinal issues. 

Thanks for that clarification. 

I see unbelivers in several classifications.

- They have no intention to ever change at that time in their life and may even be very hateful towards anyone who is a believer.

- They may be receptive, all depending

There seem to be varying degrees of this either way. Some are interested enough to look into things if they feel a reason to do so. 

So we have seeking unbelievers and non seeking unbelievers. I believe also we have those who are neutral. They just live their lives in a default position.

 

[Ray12614]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

I wanted to comment on this. I think it's a great scripture. 

I find "oppose themselves" to be a very interesting thought. Anyone who opposes God opposes themselves. Because anything contrary to God is also contrary to his creations.

Is that how you see this ?

It is an interesting Greek word, and as far as I can tell it is the only time it is used is in this verse. Basically from the strongs it means: 'To place ones self in opposition to', not that they are in conflict with themselves.

So . . . I read it to mean those who deliberately put themselves into conflict with doctrinal positions of interpretation that violate or are contrary to the whole counsel of the Bible. Those people do not 'rightly dividing scriptures' due to an incomplete understanding for whatever reason, and usually results in 'strife' because they are afraid to consider that they might be wrong. Verse 23 deals with avoiding 'foolish and unlearned questions' and it is connected with what Paul is talking about.

So how should we deal with Christians who are like that?  We need to be gentle, patient, instructing and teaching them the truth without compromising the truth of God's Word. That kind of rules out name calling, shouting, and writing people off as unbelievers in my opinion.

So that is my take on that . . . . Ray . . .