Starise Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,081 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,559 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: My contention to any of this type of thinking is that God has called us to reason with Him: Isaiah 1:18 (KJV) [18] Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. [19] If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: [20] But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Just because the work is at times overwhelming... we are to continue in it because it is obedience... remembering that it is the purpose of the devil to hide God's Truth and that means we must continue with God in understanding His Word... The Word will support your obedience by opening it unto your understanding: 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) [15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. In this wonderful passage we are instructed to observe divisions within Scripture to properly glean the Words intention in directing of life, mind and eternity... If God expects us to study we have to ask the tough questions and have answers so far as we are able to answer. This means we don't become myopic and hyper focus on subsets of bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,467 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 12 8 minutes ago, Starise said: If God expects us to study we have to ask the tough questions and have answers so far as we are able to answer. This means we don't become myopic and hyper focus on subsets of bible. There is a definitive way to interpret Scripture thru study... it is called hermeneutics and it is designed to extract intended meaning from written material... It has done wonders for me in my pursuit of God through His Word... A simple reality: How intense do think God 'IS'? Then how intense is His Word that comes forth from Him? Or better yet why the seal of add or take away if thing itself is not complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,081 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,559 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: There is a definitive way to interpret Scripture thru study... it is called hermeneutics and it is designed to extract intended meaning from written material... It has done wonders for me in my pursuit of God through His Word... A simple reality: How intense do think God 'IS'? Then how intense is His Word that comes forth from Him? Or better yet why the seal of add or take away if thing itself is not complete? I don't disrespect hermeneutics. If everything were defnitive we would have no need for discussion even amongst biblically educated persons. If we could unbox biblical study and take it away from bias it would be far more productive. It becomes your hermeneutic and my hermeneutic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted March 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,331 Content Per Day: 2.81 Reputation: 612 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Starise said: And this is one complaint among those who are skeptical. The way I see this there are areas the bible isn't as specific on. Even Jesus didn't know the day of the hour of the Lord's return. He may know it now that He sits at the right hand of the Father. I think this should be a lesson that there are areas we only know as through a glass darkly as Paul said. No room for cocky 'experts' in my opinion. Several thoughts which are potential conclusions: -Everyone can know everything about the bible. -No one can know anything about the bible. -We can all know what we need to know or what was intended for us to know. -We should all study and be hesitant to present dogmatic conclusions. -We should all study with the knowledge that the bible is presented spiritually and knowing it will be misunderstood by those who do not have this benefit or intend to have it. -If the bible is understood spiritually, some will assume they are 'spiritual' and therefore they will usurp an authority self imposed. -It is possible for a spiritual man to misunderstand the bible. -It is possible for an unspiritual man to understand the bible if they have a sincere interest. - It is common for critical unbelievers to find fault -It is common for believers to cover over questions they can't answer. - There are many supposed inconsistencies which really aren't inconsistencies when further analyzed. - There are translational inconsistencies. -There are no translational inconsistencies - If there are inconsistencies, they inhibit interpretations sometimes. - The bible is contextually unified - The bible is not contextually unified. - We can template anything that happened to the Israelites and apply all of it to us today. - We cannot template the bible and apply it to all of us today - We can template some of the bible and apply it to use today. I would not say I am skeptical as you must think I am. Here is one subject I do not see being confusing to people but many are confused. I am of the opinion the Law was given to Israel period. The whole law was to be followed not parts of it. I do not see any verse saying Gentiles/Christians must follow the whole old law or part of the old law. Yet many mix old and new law. On the other hand you take the Rapture. There are roughly about 7-10 verses for each interpretation PreTrib, MidTrib, and PostTrib. So I see how someone could believe in any one of the three. Verses back all three. I as I said I do not see verses about the Old law still in use I see the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,081 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,559 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 10 minutes ago, NConly said: I would not say I am skeptical as you must think I am. Here is one subject I do not see being confusing to people but many are confused. I am of the opinion the Law was given to Israel period. The whole law was to be followed not parts of it. I do not see any verse saying Gentiles/Christians must follow the whole old law or part of the old law. Yet many mix old and new law. On the other hand you take the Rapture. There are roughly about 7-10 verses for each interpretation PreTrib, MidTrib, and PostTrib. So I see how someone could believe in any one of the three. Verses back all three. I as I said I do not see verses about the Old law still in use I see the opposite. Sorry there, I was just making a general comment. I don't think you are skeptical, although in this day and age it might not be such a bad idea under certain circumstances :) I recently had a friend of mine who happens to be a judge in a large county give me his take on Mosaic law in writing and I found it interesting although the person I intended it for probably didn't even bother to read it. We don't beat slaves or even have slaves now and we don't let a rapist marry the girl he raped if he pays off the father. So yes, Things have changed a lot. The 4th commandmenta is a point of contention with some. I see it mainly directed to the Jews, although church attendance is supported as wholesome and suggested elsewhere in the bible. The 'tribs' is where things get really mucky mainly due to the teachings of major denominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted March 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,133 Content Per Day: 7.07 Reputation: 13,086 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Starise said: Well I am probably the opinion man here and not the answer man.I have looked at both. I see predestination as a determined purpose aimed at specific individuals for specific purposes. The whole reformed view rests on the idea that a soveriegn God already sends some to hell and chooses others for heaven. I think this is because they are taking specific cases and applying them to all of us. Yes, God assigned John the Baptist to a task from birth. God did certainly set some people up for unique callings before they were born. God does not ever contradict Himself. Those not assigned at birth to tasks are the rest of us. Does God know what their decisions will be? Yes I think He does or He would not be God. This does not negate their freedom to decide. I think God draws and God reveals specifically to individuals for the purposes of bringing them to Himself. He makes the choice very apparent. From my human perspective this seems a very difficult task. Show them His love through goodness and prosperity and they forget Him. Cause calamity and many will blame Him. If He exists He must be cruel and He caused this to happen. So in that respect He can't win with some people who are just determined to either not believe or hate Him if He exists. The answer might be coming to a place where everything is empty, even the best of the best is empty. No pursuit for happiness ever fulfills. There are different ways people can come to the end of the rope. Living miserable in a mansion all alone isn't fulfilling. Material things are nice to have, but they are external things that don't feed the internal. Substances can make one feel better temporarily, but then there is the day after and the hangovers and the need to explain what you said while you were under the influence. Addictions always leave more emptiness at the end than they ever fill. Some come to the realization young and some waste their lives trying to find it. That's my own understanding of predestination as well. We cannot overlook nor deny how the Lord calls us --- this is an invitation --- to join ourselves to His will. The freewill offering is what the Lord esteems highly, not obeisance by fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,081 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,559 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Marathoner said: That's my own understanding of predestination as well. We cannot overlook nor deny how the Lord calls us --- this is an invitation --- to join ourselves to His will. The freewill offering is what the Lord esteems highly, not obeisance by fiat. Yeah, not much point in anything if He is going to decide everything for us, neither would it be the 'fair' thing to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Jah Posted March 12 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 I think the bible is written in such away to identify those who have faith. I think the bible give enough information that one can draw the proper conclusion and leaves out enough for those without faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Adrien Posted March 12 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 453 Content Per Day: 4.72 Reputation: 385 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/22/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Starise said: Well I am probably the opinion man here and not the answer man.I have looked at both. I see predestination as a determined purpose aimed at specific individuals for specific purposes. The whole reformed view rests on the idea that a soveriegn God already sends some to hell and chooses others for heaven. I think this is because they are taking specific cases and applying them to all of us. Yes, God assigned John the Baptist to a task from birth. God did certainly set some people up for unique callings before they were born. God does not ever contradict Himself. Those not assigned at birth to tasks are the rest of us. Does God know what their decisions will be? Yes I think He does or He would not be God. This does not negate their freedom to decide. I think God draws and God reveals specifically to individuals for the purposes of bringing them to Himself. He makes the choice very apparent. From my human perspective this seems a very difficult task. Show them His love through goodness and prosperity and they forget Him. Cause calamity and many will blame Him. If He exists He must be cruel and He caused this to happen. So in that respect He can't win with some people who are just determined to either not believe or hate Him if He exists. The answer might be coming to a place where everything is empty, even the best of the best is empty. No pursuit for happiness ever fulfills. There are different ways people can come to the end of the rope. Living miserable in a mansion all alone isn't fulfilling. Material things are nice to have, but they are external things that don't feed the internal. Substances can make one feel better temporarily, but then there is the day after and the hangovers and the need to explain what you said while you were under the influence. Addictions always leave more emptiness at the end than they ever fill. Some come to the realization young and some waste their lives trying to find it. Thank you Starise, I comfort myself with Deut. 29:29 when I am at a roadblock; The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. I have had answers in the past concerning questions I've had and I know that God has perfect timing for revealing Himself. Again, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,081 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,559 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, D. Adrien said: Thank you Starise, I comfort myself with Deut. 29:29 when I am at a roadblock; The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. I have had answers in the past concerning questions I've had and I know that God has perfect timing for revealing Himself. Again, thank you. You are so very gracious @D. Adrien and I have enjoyed everything you've written. It is I who should thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts