Your closest friendnt Posted March 27 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: Our spirit is born of the Spirit and we are joined to Him as one Spirit. See John 3:6 & 1 Cor 6:17 This is also not specific, as what born of the Spirit, as whose Spirit. And we are joint to him as in Jesus Christ as we are partakers of his Spirit, Jesus Spirit this I understand. But to say that bond is not broken as long as we believe is not the same as the Holy Spirit living in us 24/7/365, is it? Edited March 27 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 27 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: If you look at these verses in Romans 8:9-11 it is very difficult to separate out exactly Who in the Godhead is living in us: You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of His Spirit who lives in you. This is what Paul said at that specific time and I cannot agree with that because of what Jesus had said and the way he had said it he meant it. Paul had his own experiences and he knows how it happened on the road to Damascus and how at a later time Ananias intercede for him according to the instructions from Jesus Christ to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And how later on he met believers in Jesus Christ and he prayed for them to recieve the Holy Spirit. About Christ in us, is not the same as living in us and staying 24/7/365 this cannot be supported by the scriptures, this is in question by a lot of scriptures. Having received from his Spirit when we first believed and we believe in Jesus Christ. To define "received of his Spirit ", as to whose Spirit we received. To know that Jesus Christ is from God and that he has received from his Spirit from the beginning because he was never from Man that He never had the Spirit of Man and He is still Live in Him, God the Heavenly Father and because of him we are also the Children of the Heavenly Father is not the same as saying that we have the Spirit of God or that The Heavenly Father is in us. To say that we are in the Spirit of his Son Jesus Christ and we are shield with his Spirit and in Him we are also in God through Him because He is with God Is not the same as saying that the Heavenly Father leaves in us. Or Jesus Christ lives in us or even the Holy Spirit. To make his abode in us is not the same as Jesus repeatedly let us know. Look that everything we do and say and the way we pray it does not justifies that Jesus lives in us 24/7/365 or the Holy Spirit which is our Inheritance. As about the Heavenly Father He has given us Jesus Christ as our Lord and He will supply all our needs according to His richness in His Glory. Jesus Christ said call upon my name. There He is teaching us how to pray. Edited March 27 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted March 27 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.37 Content Count: 3,427 Content Per Day: 6.24 Reputation: 2,283 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted March 27 19 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is what Paul said at that specific time and I cannot agree with that because of what Jesus had said and the way he had said it he meant it. Paul had his own experiences and he knows how it happened on the road to Damascus and how at a later time Ananias intercede for him according to the instructions from Jesus Christ to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And how later on he met believers in Jesus Christ and he prayed for them to recieve the Holy Spirit. About Christ in us, is not the same as living in us and staying 24/7/365 this cannot be supported by the scriptures, this is in question by a lot of scriptures. Having received from his Spirit when we first believed and we believe in Jesus Christ. To define "received of his Spirit ", as to whose Spirit we received. To know that Jesus Christ is from God and that he has received from his Spirit from the beginning because he was never from Man that He never had the Spirit of Man and He is still Live in Him, God the Heavenly Father and because of him we are also the Children of the Heavenly Father is not the same as saying that we have the Spirit of God or that The Heavenly Father is in us. To say that we are in the Spirit of his Son Jesus Christ and we are shield with his Spirit and in Him we are also in God through Him because He is with God Is not the same as saying that the Heavenly Father leaves in us. Or Jesus Christ lives in us or even the Holy Spirit. To make his abode in us is not the same as Jesus repeatedly let us know. Look that everything we do and say and the way we pray it does not justifies that Jesus lives in us 24/7/365 or the Holy Spirit which is our Inheritance. As about the Heavenly Father He has given us Jesus Christ as our Lord and He will supply all our needs according to His richness in His Glory. Jesus Christ said call upon my name. There He is teaching us how to pray. Can you produce verses saying He leaves us as it pertains to the new covenant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Can you produce verses saying He leaves us as it pertains to the new covenant? What do you mean by he leaves us as it pertains the New Covenant. Do you want to say that He left them in the Old but that does not happen in the New? Or that He is all the time with us. He can be with us in the Holy Spirit any time He wants. No one can stop him. This does not say that he is all the time in our hearts. He leaves us, this is pertaining to Jesus Christ. The scriptures say that we are in him because we believe in him and we are in the Heavenly Father because we are in Him and He is with the Heavenly Father. It does not mean that because we are in him He has come to make His abode in our hearts. And that also when and if the time comes. In the mean time he has given us the Holy Spirit and He can minister to us through the Holy Spirit. And not only in the Holy Spirit but also with the Angels because they are for his ministry towards us. We have a lot examples of Jesus sending Angels to guide the disciples. And stay with them till their specific mission was accomplished. Also He guides us through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different than the Holy Spirit it self they remain in the believer. They are gifts deposited in the heart of the believers and that's why it says that God will teach everyone to know God. Jesus puts seeds in the heart of the believers and their from their heart are communicating with the believers that's how we say that we come in the knowledge of him from within our heart. Jesus said to his disciples abide in me and if you keep my commandments then me and the Heavenly Father will come and make our abode in you. That sounds conditional and I will live it like that because it is a very sensitive matter and we also abide in his grace and I do not want to judge anyone. It was not the same with the disciples right after the Cross and till the time of the ascension because they did not have the Holy Spirit as it first came on the Day of Pentecost because they had Jesus Christ and Jesus had to ascend first to the Heavenly Father but that's when the Heavenly Father gave him the Holy Spirit to represent him because he was ascended to Heaven. Studying the New Testament none of the disciples ever said that Jesus talked to them and asked them to do something. All the time they said the Holy Spirit and or an Angel asked them to do something or send them on a mission. Besides Paul when Jesus appeared to him on the way to Damascus and Paul did not show Him the way John did in Patmos but Paul as soon he was exposed to his Light his eyes were burn they were cooked in the way they did or Jesus did something to protect his eyes and cover them with those scales and that how he wanted Paul to be helpless and not to depend on himself because he had proposed to himself to be his guiding light from that time on. He wanted Paul to understand that He was the LIGHT OF THE WORLD the Light that will shine to the Gentiles and that his mission was to bring that Light to the Gentiles Nations. Jesus appeared for the first time to John in the island of Patmos and He sent a message to the churches those gold stands who walked amongs them. He did it through John and He made us understand that not all of them will open the door of their heart to let him in, and what does that mean about those believers of the seven Gold Lambstands. His communicated his instructions to them through John and not through the Holy Spirit so I noticed and why? If He was in their hearts why would He knock on them and He would not force his way in. Many are called but not all are chosen. And he said to those who will do what I have asked them to them I will come in them and have supper with them and do many wonderful things. It is not a blanket upon all who believe, that's why He is asking us to prepare our selves for him to come in our hearts. Edited March 28 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted March 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.37 Content Count: 3,427 Content Per Day: 6.24 Reputation: 2,283 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: What do you mean by he leaves us as it pertains the New Covenant. Do you want to say that He left them in the Old but that does not happen in the New? Or that He is all the time with us. He can be with us in the Holy Spirit any time He wants. No one can stop him. This does not say that he is all the time in our hearts. He leaves us, this is pertaining to Jesus Christ. The scriptures say that we are in him because we believe in him and we are in the Heavenly Father because we are in Him and He is with the Heavenly Father. It does not mean that because we are in him He has come to make His abode in our hearts. And that also when and if the time comes. In the mean time he has given us the Holy Spirit and He can minister to us through the Holy Spirit. And not only in the Holy Spirit but also with the Angels because they are for his ministry towards us. We have a lot examples of Jesus sending Angels to guide the disciples. And stay with them till their specific mission was accomplished. Also He guides us through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different than the Holy Spirit it self they remain in the believer. They are gifts deposited in the heart of the believers and that's why it says that God will teach everyone to know God. Jesus puts seeds in the heart of the believers and their from their heart are communicating with the believers that's how we say that we come in the knowledge of him from within our heart. Jesus said to his disciples abide in me and if you keep my commandments then me and the Heavenly Father will come and make our abode in you. That sounds conditional and I will live it like that because it is a very sensitive matter and we also abide in his grace and I do not want to judge anyone. It was not the same with the disciples right after the Cross and till the time of the ascension because they did not have the Holy Spirit as it first came on the Day of Pentecost because they had Jesus Christ and Jesus had to ascend first to the Heavenly Father but that's when the Heavenly Father gave him the Holy Spirit to represent him because he was ascended to Heaven. Studying the New Testament none of the disciples ever said that Jesus talked to them and asked them to do something. All the time they said the Holy Spirit and or an Angel asked them to do something or send them on a mission. Besides Paul when Jesus appeared to him on the way to Damascus and Paul did not show Him the way John did in Patmos but Paul as soon he was exposed to his Light his eyes were burn they were cooked in the way they did or Jesus did something to protect his eyes and cover them with those scales and that how he wanted Paul to be helpless and not to depend on himself because he had proposed to himself to be his guiding light from that time on. He wanted Paul to understand that He was the LIGHT OF THE WORLD the Light that will shine to the Gentiles and that his mission was to bring that Light to the Gentiles Nations. Jesus appeared for the first time to John in the island of Patmos and He sent a message to the churches those gold stands who walked amongs them. He did it through John and He made us understand that not all of them will open the door of their heart to let him in, and what does that mean about those believers of the seven Gold Lambstands. His communicated his instructions to them through John and not through the Holy Spirit so I noticed and why? If He was in their hearts why would He knock on them and He would not force his way in. Many are called but not all are chosen. And he said to those who will do what I have asked them to them I will come in them and have supper with them and do many wonderful things. It is not a blanket upon all who believe, that's why He is asking us to prepare our selves for him to come in our hearts. I think I get what you're saying, but can you show me verses in the new testament where He pulls His indwelling Spirit from a person who is joined to Him as a born-again child of God? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vine Abider said: I think I get what you're saying, but can you show me verses in the new testament where He pulls His indwelling Spirit from a person who is joined to Him as a born-again child of God? (Where He pulls his indwelling Spirit from a person who is joint to Him as a born-again child of God.) Your statement who is joint to Him, (this is about Jesus), as a Born-again child of God suggests that God has other children that are not indwel by Jesus. And that only the Born-Again believers are dwell by Jesus. That they are other believers who are in Jesus Christ sealed by the Holy Spirit as being in Jesus Christ but are not indwel by Jesus Christ Spirit because they are not born-again and to be indwel by Christ they need to be born again. It seems that you make the distinction between the children of God between the born from above but not born-again and those who are born-from above and are born again. If you please say something about what the born-again is within the context of your post only. Please with your own words. And also scripture if you have one at hand. Edited March 28 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vine Abider said: I think I get what you're saying, but can you show me verses in the new testament where He pulls His indwelling Spirit from a person who is joined to Him as a born-again child of God? In sort to the answer to your question is Yes Jesus may decide not to indwel in them anymore according to what we have in scripture. But they are not anymore at that time indwel but they are still in Christ born from above and under the blood of Jesus Christ. Still sealed by his Spirit. No one can forbid them to believe. Edited March 28 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted March 28 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,031 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,450 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 12:10 AM, Neighbor said: Actually God can and has extended mercy without there being a bit of merit within the recipients of His mercy. Plus God has changed his mind and repented of His own judgement. He does what He does. It is not for any man to judge what God does. No. I did not address the recipients of mercy. I addressed the impossibility of God winking at sin. The proof is the horrendous death of His Son Jesus. If a judge must judge according to the Law and the Law requires 30 years imprisonment he must give 30 years. If not, he is unrighteous. He will be known for his mercy, but not his justice. The account is always paid to God - either by Jesus or the guilty (Ex.34:7). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted March 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,050 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Online Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted March 29 16 hours ago, AdHoc said: The proof is the horrendous death of His Son Jesus. The willing sacrifice made by my Lord and savior Yeshua whom is God is God's mercy, played out at Calvary, that has redeemed those foreknown, as well as predestined to be with God eternally forward. He lives! Praise God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted March 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,031 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,450 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29 4 hours ago, Neighbor said: The willing sacrifice made by my Lord and savior Yeshua whom is God is God's mercy, played out at Calvary, that has redeemed those foreknown, as well as predestined to be with God eternally forward. He lives! Praise God. Amen! But just so we are clear WHO inflicted it on Him I quote Isaiah 53; 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, In Matthew 10:28 and here in Isaiah 53 it is God Who demands retribution. And our Lord's soul was "sorrowful unto death" at the thought of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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