SERMON, boy that is what I want!

[Michael37]

On 4/17/2024 at 1:59 PM, Marathoner said:

It's good to leave a term like that undefined in order to encourage self-motivated illumination. There will be no "let me google that for you" this evening.

Since I first began to read I have always looked up the meaning of words and concepts hitherto unknown to me. 

Back to sermons, and their ilk, for which many good men and women, and boys and girls, study, train, and practice to produce, all I have to say is not everyone is a Billy Graham, least of all me.

One Sunday I was rostered to deliver the message and having taken my position in the pulpit felt no vigor to proceed. I was about to defer to someone else who might have "the word" for the meeting when I heard that still, small voice whisper in my thoughts, "work your plan", which I did, but I had to fight to get any lift, such was the spiritual battle going on in that assembly. 

[Marathoner]

I've never labored under the pretense myself which is probably why on those occasions when the Lord bid me to speak to others in a corporate manner, the words came without effort. Sermonizing is not nor never was my vocation, and I wasn't raised paying heed to someone ensconced in a pulpit. This explains why I have no time for sermons that are preached to the choir; it's fair to say that is the target audience of the church sermon. 

In any case, I was "brought up" in a setting where we put our hands and hearts to work for the kingdom, serving those without husbands, wives, or parents. That's how it was until the lofty vocation of clergy started seeping inexorably in, turning gatherings of the saints into dreadful affairs where the chief elder lulled me into a semi-conscious state of head-bobbing with his sermonizing. There the head goes, drooping down slowly when suddenly, the head snaps upright again.

After a few repetitions of that teeter-totter, I would stand up and exit the building. There were holes to dig, fences to mend, brush to clear out, and refuse to transport to the dump. Oh, how perfectly scandalous my judicious exits proved to be. How dare I leave in the middle of his sermon. I ought to repent...

Of what? Seeking something constructive to do with my time? I can think of better ways to serve the Lord than devoting ourselves to carefully maintaining appropriately religious appearances in order to curry the favor of busybodies in congregations. It's a charade and we know how the Lord feels about hypocrites, yes? Hypocrites are actors after all. 

[BibleStudent100]

On 4/15/2024 at 2:20 PM, Michael37 said:

I like a good message, and a smattering of visual effects but not too much.

Are you referring to a power point slide/s?  Do some ministers go overboard on the visual slides/videos?  Just wondering.

[Michael37]

9 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

Are you referring to a power point slide/s?  Do some ministers go overboard on the visual slides/videos?  Just wondering.

Yes, I have observed mainly Pentecostal denominations preoccupied with visual effects from start to finish in every service, but non-charismatics do run with the big screen program as well. 

One pastor in our city trained as a lighting engineer and has built up a fellowship where he backlights his preaching and entertains with all sorts of lighting gimmicks with changing hues or speckle patterns etc. 

The polished power-point and video clip ministry has its place, as Chuck Missler demonstrated, but the circus some outfits consider attractive actually repels me.

[Neighbor]

Humans  receive information  with all five senses (Plus one). To not utilize knowledge of that ability to reach humans with communication by utilizing all five is to miss the mark by far.

Everything absolutely everything is important in gaining attention and keeping it, including the temperature of a room.

[BibleStudent100]

14 hours ago, Michael37 said:

the circus some outfits consider attractive actually repels me.

Agreed!  Somewhere there needs to be a balance between the words uttered and special effects used in a sermon.  When I speak in a capacity of a lay minister at the my church, I use a couple of still images only during my 30 minutes of preaching. 

 

The use of sparkling/dazzling lighting effects is new one!  

[tatwo]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:35 PM, Neighbor said:

What  is a sermon? 

sermon /sûr′mən/

noun

A religious discourse, especially one delivered as part of a service. 

An often lengthy and tedious speech of reproof or exhortation. 

A discourse or address; a talk; a writing. 

"the sermons of Chaucer"

Similar: talkwriting

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition •

Greetings to you Neighbor…

This is a somewhat interesting “conversation” you have started here…I have read the thread 2 times in effort to try to gain a “working” understanding of all that has been posted. I am not sure I have done that…completely…normally I can sort through hyperbole but…sometimes in a forum I am just not sure. I did feel however a response to a couple of your questions may be interesting…if nothing more than to offer perhaps an additional perspective.

On 4/15/2024 at 12:35 PM, Neighbor said:

With that as a definition, just who plans to go hear a sermon? Not me I need not and do not want to hear what is a lengthy tedious reproof, nor exhortation. That is not a worship service, a corporate worship gathering of followers of Yeshua as I know them anyway.

So what is a worship gathering? To me it is a corporate meet of fellow believers, all called as result of  the reveal of Jesus  by the Holy Spirit.  It does have order, it is not chaos. It has a call to order, a time of prayer, worship in the form of music, and it does have a presentation of the word of God the Bible, word by word, verse by verse, book by  book; all for the purpose of education, edification, and use in daily life by each member of the gathered body. There is structure to worship, corporate worship meets.

So you are differentiating between what you define a sermon as…which is…“a lengthy tedious reproof, or exhortation” and a presentation…which is…” of the word of God the Bible, word by word, verse by verse, book by book.” The “sermon” in your mind negates the idea of a “corporate worship service”…whereas a “presentation” is an integral part of the “corporate worship service?”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:35 PM, Neighbor said:

So what is it not? It is not a happy talk session, of self elevation, nor  of motivational rah rah slogans and jingles. Worship is serious business, filled with joy, but also quite serious. Worship service is a high point, make that the high point, of each week; without which the body, mind, and soul suffers at least some for lack of it's vitality infusion.

Expanding the discussion a bit perhaps…here Neighbor…you are defining what you acknowledge “worship is not” accompanied by your definition of what “Worship is…as…serious business” followed by additional details of your perspective?

If one is to understand your focus here and the point of your OP…one must acknowledge…as you are suggesting…the “presentation” is included in the “serious business of a worship service” and you liken it to a “vitality infusion” which is a part of what you describe as the “high point of each week?”

It is important that each understands “their definition of worship” in regards to life “in Christ”…and it is my assumption that you are doing just that. Initially you state that a “Worship service is a high point, make that the high point, of each week.” I think I am following up to this point.

On 4/15/2024 at 12:35 PM, Neighbor said:

I think vitality is key, a key word to use in description of worship services. For the word of God spoken, read, thoughtfully questioned and  considered  for best application, via exposition, is a builder of strength for use in all that is and will occur during the entire week, each week. The key to a good week, as a day, is a fine breakfast of corporate worship.

Here you are adding some detail to your description from immediately above…I have a question, you wrote…“For the word of God spoken, read, thoughtfully questioned and  considered  for best application, via exposition, is a builder of strength for use in all that is and will occur during the entire week, each week.”

So…staying in context…you are discussing some of the “finer details” of the “presentation” element of a “weekly corporate worship service.” It is from here that I will ask this question…in regards to your statement…“thoughtfully questioned”…is that a publicly expressed “questioning” in the weekly corporate worship service?

This does serve as a more detailed definition…from you Neighbor…as to your desire, preference, vision or expectation of the weekly worship service. Likening the experience, impact, or effect of a weekly worship service…to a daily intake of a fine breakfast meal each morning…?

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 4/15/2024 at 8:03 PM, Neighbor said:

So I guess the question remains, in my mind anyway, "What is a sermon?" What mental picture does that word create for you all? It is foreign sounding to me, for it doesn't seem to fit what I have experienced at all.

The mental picture the word “sermon” creates for me is very much the same as you have described for yourself Neighbor.

However my understanding of the invisible realms of the “spirit world” both the kingdom of the dragon and the Kingdom of God…always leaves me highly suspicious of those who spout forth “a lengthy tedious reproof, or exhortation.”

I do not believe that this is merely happenstance…clearly the dragon is attacking the sons of God today. I would suggest that today we all should recognize as the “end of the age” is coming forth…so is the increase of the persecution upon the Body of Christ…which I believe that most of those “sermon preaching” characters are setting up for. They make "Christ" seem unpalatable and unnecessary to many...this brings reproach...I do not think that they all realize this either…nor do their congregants in most cases.

By my standards…”sermonizers” as you Neighbor have defined them…that is if…I understand you I would agree…they are wolves in sheep’s clothing opposing the Kingdom and the people of God.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:25 AM, Neighbor said:

If my Lord's talk at the Mount is indeed a sermon, I don't think I have heard another from any pastor preacher priest in my lifetime that is anything like it.

I would ask you then Neighbor…why do you say that or why is that so for you?

On 4/16/2024 at 2:25 AM, Neighbor said:

Is the sermon on the mount what readers/members here think of when they hear of a  sermon, or a worship service with a sermon?

No…simply put no. The Sermon on the Mount was a description of life in the Kingdom of God on earth coming from the mind of the Lord’s Spirit. Any “sermon or presentation” that does not compliment the picture painted by the Lord Yahshua Christ in His revelation there that day…is a counterfeit and false.

To this day…when He speaks…when the “Word of God” speaks…He is revealing Himself to our spirits…this explains why the “sons of God” cannot stomach those unfortunate events.

For further understanding simply look at the story that precedes that trip to the mountain that day…The Lord Yahshua is operating from the very throne of God in His power and authority…He is literally bearing the “full authentication and pleasure” of His Father and He’s only short time removed from the victory He won in the “wilderness and the three temptations from the dragon.” He then goes to a wedding in Cana of Galilee where He began the manifestation of His glory…

He was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people. They brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them.

Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan. Then He took the “crowds” to the mountain and explained all that “He had done….was doing…and was going to do” which included that soon He would be imparting of the Kingdom of God to humanity…and how they are to live as a result. He spoke with an authority that the contemporaries of His day could not match and the people knew this.

On 4/16/2024 at 2:25 AM, Neighbor said:

 I am simply asking, not challenging. I am seeking an understanding of what goes through minds when stimulated by the word sermon.

To be honest Neighbor…I rarely if ever consider the word in the last 30 years. Early on…as I remember…it seems that the preachers distanced themselves from that word in favor of a myriad of other preferred terms…it did not however change the payload of what was being delivered by the same.

Tatwo...:)