Prophecy

[Mr. M]

On 4/15/2024 at 3:52 PM, Starise said:

Maybe even more misunderstood than tongues generally speaking amongst mainline denominations.

Who would care to discuss this.

First use 

Genesis 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, H5030 and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

The prophet as an intercessor

Ezekiel 22:30 So I sought for a man among them who would make a wall, and stand in the gap before Me on behalf of the land, that I should not destroy it; but I found no one. 

[H5030]nabi=prophet<[H5012] naba=prophesy

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, H5012 your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

True prophesy by the Spirit is a response to intercessions:

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men:

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Edited April 19 by Mr. M

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, Starise said:

Hello Dennis,

Thank you for those concise references on prophecy.I do believe it is supposed to edify and help to build up the body of Christ.  Scripture clearly supports this premise.

Let me quote the main two references you used here to support the argument that prophecy is no longer functioning

From my understanding some of the things about prophecy have changed since OT days, but prophecy remains.

1 Cor. 13:8-9

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 

We see three things listed in verse 8

-words of knowledge

-prophecies

-tongues

What we see in verses 8-12 is that these things will eventually discontinue. When they cease? When we know in full.

Let me read further verses for a fuller picture of what this means.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

These further verses confirm they will cease when we know as we are known. When is that? After the Lord returns. The full canon of scripture does not let us know as we are known.

Also notice verse 9- For we know in part and we prophesy in part. This means that modern prophecy, even when done strictly according to the ways it should be done often only reveals a part of a thing, and may not reveal everything about it, so wisdom and discernment are needed to apply the correct intentions. This will always need to be confirmed by scripture and by other things.

For instance, you might get a word of prophecy that you will lead men, but no idea as to where or when.

Sometimes the Lord allows spot on prophecy. John Wimber, who had the gift, told the story of boarding a jet and while boarding he seen a man with a name on his head. He talked to the man and asked him if he knew of the name. It was a woman he had been committing adultery with. He turned white as a sheet when John went on to describe the very motel and what the clerk was wearing, what she looked like and the alias name they used at the motel. The man repented and was saved as a result.

2 Peter 2:1

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Yes certainly there are false prophets. We see them on television a lot. All of the gifts should be checked and the men should all be above reproach. What I see happening is the church throws the baby out with the bath water here. The devil copies everything the Lord does and tries to make it look legit. Many churches make the assumtion it's all of the devil and will have nothing to do with any of it.

The gifts were never intended to be a circus show. They are a functional part of the body of Christ used to edify when used in balance with the word and in the right ways.

The modern church is many times quenching the very Spirit sent to help it.

 

Good morning, Starise, Have you had your morning coffee yet? 😊

There are some good Biblical discussions in this thread. If we lived to be 900 years old, we would continue learning and discussing God’s word daily. God’s word is forever; I suspect we will be studying His word for all of eternity:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (John 21:25)

I currently have a digital library of 1,750 Biblical books, encyclopedias, commentaries, dictionaries, lexicons, secular historians, and translations with a mouse click. Of course, I could not read them all in multiple lifetimes. I only mention this because it is not a drop of water in an Olympic-sized swimming pool with what is now at our fingertips, not to mention the number of exegetical views reading the same Bible.

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

As I have mentioned in other threads, I believe this verse has a dual application in addition to the apparent interpretation. Daniel was inspired to convey a scriptural understanding of the prophetic word. No one would understand the meanings until the terminal generation. When these prophetic events at the time of the end start to unfold and align (the world seemingly falling apart), many will begin to flip the pages of the Bible (run to and fro), trying to find the answers as to why and what to expect. I think this has started, and the prophetic implications and escalations of the current October 7, 2023, Israeli-declared war are beginning to turn many to the Bible once again.

Many people in Muslim Iran are receiving Bibles and hearing the Word via the Internet, radio, and Bible tracts, and it is reported that many are converting to Christianity. They are excited about the prophecies and promises about Persia (running to and fro in prophetic scripture) and look forward to them. Many in Iran are now having dreams and visions:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (Acts 2:17)

To simplify what I was thinking about prophecy, I see prophecy as two types, thus sayeth the Lord and predicting the future in advance.

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7)

In the above verse, I contemplated if there are any modern-day prophets today, and if so, how we know who they are. They would need to be 100% accurate, 100% of the time. I have concluded we have the complete canon, there will be no further prophetic revelations, thus, the prophets, ended with John the Baptist, the gift of tongues, etc., ended with the last apostle John. The gift of tongues was granted to share the Gospel message in the listener’s tongue. IMO. The above does not preclude the Holy Spirit from giving individual revelation and understanding.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, (Hebrews 1:1) [emphasis mine]

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

We are like-minded in interpreting the above verses, save verse ten. Not that any of my views are correct, but I believe this is implying our translation to perfect, glorified bodies. Then we will know in full; everything that was revealed in part will be revealed. All mysteries will be revealed, and we will understand in full. Could this be part of removing our tears, complete understanding, and agreement with a perfect God?

I believe some of the gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 were for the apostolic age only as a sign to verify the Gospel being preached (the Jews always required a sign). Today, we have been given individual gifts, fruits, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the ability to operate collectively as one church in the Lord. Pastors, deacons, teachers, workers, cheerful giving offerings and tithes, trustees, secretaries, treasurer, prayer warriors, etcetera.

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (Romans 12:6)

②       the gift of interpreting divine will or purpose, gift of prophesying (Iren. 1, 13, 4 [Harv. I 120, 4]), of Rahab 1 Cl 12:8.

            •           Of Christians Ro 12:6; 1 Cor 12:10; 13:2, 8 v.l.; 14:22.^[1]

gifts: The Greek word (charismata) refers to God-given abilities that should be used to build up other members in the church. Although they are “irrevocable” and, thus do not change (11:29), they are to be pursued and developed (1 Pet. 4:10). prophecy: This word is used here in a general sense for all types of gifts that involve speaking God’s word. For example, in 1 Cor. 14:3 “exhortation” appears as a prophesying gift. In its narrower sense, prophecy means the revealing of God’s will in a particular situation (Acts 13:1–3).^[2]

 

---

^[1] Arndt, William, et al. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., University of Chicago Press, 2000, p. 889.

^[2] Radmacher, Earl D., et al. Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary. T. Nelson Publishers, 1999, p. 1448.

Raising the dead, healing issues of blood, leprosy, and palsy ceased from men of God in the first century A.D. The prosperity preachers, faith healers, and many like Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, and Kenneth Copeland are fakes with a deceiving spirit.

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:2)

Not to draw attention to himself, we know Paul was speaking of himself when he was stoned and left for dead. Paul must have been prohibited from revealing what he heard and saw in Heaven. Paul was privileged to reveal and explain several mysteries hidden in the OT. I suspect 1 Cor. 13:8-10 might be associated with 2 Cor. 12:2.

Today, we can boldly go before the throne of God through our mediator, Jesus Christ our Lord, in intercessory prayer, healing, strength, and our needs. Our Lord always answers our prayers, either yes and immediately (as was in my case with alcoholism), no, because it is not in His will, He has better plans, or wait for His perfect timing. Many times, we may never know it was answered this side of Heaven.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:16)

[Starise]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Now I mentioned the scripture as a starting point and then I led into a prayer, which we know is not a prophecy. However, if you do that over time you will get a flow so when you do receive a prophecy from the Lord your mouth is ready as having practiced as it were. Remember the gift comes through the vessel which isn`t a robot.

I believe the spiritual listening will develop as you practice with God`s word and praying out loud on that topic. 

Now we are both musicians and we know when God gives us a flow, however, we had to practice over the years, the notes, chords, arpeggios, keys, etc and thus our hands were `tuned. ` So now, I suggest, tune your mind and mouth to God`s word and get a flow.

all the best, Marilyn.

I have seen this with prayer and in music. The churches I played in and a few I was responsible for the music in, were all structured. I never knew anything different. "God is not the author of confusion", so I would try to keep everything on the rails but always felt something was missing. Toward the end of that last stint, I would sometimes do things off the rails. Sometimes admittedly it was just me forgetting to repeat a chorus or something. Other times it was a leading to do something different. Surprisingly I never got any flak for it from anyone. I would compare it to the way some pastors say they feel led away from a topic to something else in their messages.

Some churches are not structured in worship in the way we look at it at all. I have recently been exposed to some of this and even heard a musician in the Spirit edifying as a part of their worship. No strict script at all. This kind of worship if done in the right spirit and intent, is amazing to be a part of, and frankly I would never want to return to that more structured worship ever again. Everyone still knows and follows the choruses. Something magical happens when we let go and let the Spirit move.Sometimes the Spirit says to follow the script. Other times He doesn't. 

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I was just thinking about this and realise you are seeing prophecy more as for people and what God would say to them. That was not common many years ago. The prophetic that I grew up with was a message from God for the congregation. 

Both are good, though I tend to think too much emphasis is now placed on the personal prophetic and can easily turn into `fortune telling,` if you know what I mean.

Now, that is a good move to keep those `picture` to yourself. I suggest you ask God for the interpretation and then pray into that situation. That shows to God you are responsible but not looking for accolades. God will release your prophetic gift in His time.

I am still processing some of this. I attended a meeting that apparently is common in many churches where a preacher is preaching and gives prophecy for the future of a church or the community, then individual public prophecy by looking at someone and asking them to stand. He then gives them a word. Sometimes he approaches them and hides the mic because the Lord apparently has given him something personal about a person. These words are often far more than generalities about the person and what has been happening with them and what is going to happen with them.

In the conference they put us into groups taking turns with a  person in the middle of a circle. The others are to give a word they see about you. Keep in mind we are all strangers, so no one knows anyone else. I was in the middle of the circle at one point and they said things about me I won't repeat here about me. They were positive things. Many of the things they said reenforced what I knew about myself and some struggles. Sometimes they interpreted the things they seen differently that I did. This would be the fledgling human element trying to make sense of it.

The two things I seen when I asked God about a person I still have no explanation for, so I let it be. I seen a woman in the circle and I seen dancing slippers and what looked to me like a dancing outfit, so I said I seen a dancer. It wasn't technically a dancer, but the clothing I seen. It was pink clothing like a lace, but I gathered it was dancing because I seen the shoes like ballet shoes. Did I misinterpret it? Possible I did. On the spiritual level, her soul wanted to dance but felt maybe restricted. If this had not been an exercise, I would have kept that to myself.

I will share one of the things they said about me. They said I was well equipped with all the 'tools' and that I was well prepared.I took that to mean musically because I have an overabundance of those tools and I often prepare to use them. Another said he seen a cowboy like I was on a horse with a lasso ready to do business whatever that means. I have no association with cowboys lol. There were other words for me.It's edifying and interesting to say the least.

 

[Starise]

10 hours ago, Mr. M said:

First use 

Genesis 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, H5030 and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

The prophet as an intercessor

Ezekiel 22:30 So I sought for a man among them who would make a wall, and stand in the gap before Me on behalf of the land, that I should not destroy it; but I found no one. 

[H5030]nabi=prophet<[H5012] naba=prophesy

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, H5012 your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

True prophesy by the Spirit is a response to intercessions:

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men:

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

I see this as a yes and no kind of thing. In other words, yes this is true, but other aspects of it are true as well. Sometimes the person being given a word is a complete stranger to the person giving the word, so the prophet could not have been interceeding for them until that very moment maybe. They may ask, " Lord, would you have for this person?" which is interceeding, but not in the way some may see it.

1 Timothy 2:1 says to pray for all men. How many of us realistically do that? We can pray collectively sure. We could spend 24/7 praying and never pray for everyone. There is a deeper context here.

 

[Starise]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I have perused the file you PM'd me. I felt to wait for awhile before wading into it with you. 

I am familiar with all the material you supplied and it is standard to the prophetic ministry itself. 

Studying any topic of interest can bring great blessings and joy.

Practicing what has been studied can be a test of faith and patience.

Since you are seeking my advice about Prophecy, out of goodness and faithfulness, I will give it to you in a nutshell:

When used without the Fruit of the Spirit, the Gifts of the Spirit are abusive.

When used with the Fruit of the Spirit the Gifts of the Spirit are a blessing.

 I wish I had the video link to the conference. I know they recorded it. I think it would give a more complete reference. I'll see if I can find it.

There is a level of risk in incorporating prophecy into any church. For one thing it can often uncover the rotten eggs, or those things which are keeping a church from growing, which sometimes point to things within leadership. These words would be given privately to the leadership team apparently. The fruit of the Spirit in that case would be to give these words in love. 

In any church incorporating this, there should be strict checks and balances. In other words accountability. As in anything that happens within the church. I wish I could say it hasn't been abused. Like the pastor gone rogue, this can happen in prophetic ministry as well, and some of these guys either need to be let go or taken aside. It should never be a peacock ministry with stars. We are all servants.

It happens unfortunately.

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning, Starise, Have you had your morning coffee yet? 😊

Yes, can't you tell? :)

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

As I have mentioned in other threads, I believe this verse has a dual application in addition to the apparent interpretation. Daniel was inspired to convey a scriptural understanding of the prophetic word. No one would understand the meanings until the terminal generation. When these prophetic events at the time of the end start to unfold and align (the world seemingly falling apart), many will begin to flip the pages of the Bible (run to and fro), trying to find the answers as to why and what to expect. I think this has started, and the prophetic implications and escalations of the current October 7, 2023, Israeli-declared war are beginning to turn many to the Bible once again.

When I read this verse I think about busy freeways and busy air traffic. People are criss crossing the globe on an unprecidented scale. And it goes without really saying how much knowledge continues to increase. It's incredible. AI helped me fill out my taxes this year.My car drives itself. It really does, although somewhat like a grandma sometimes. I could go on and on. 

We see the frution of that verse now. Does it temp a few to begin tpo see things that aren't there 'yet'? I think in many cases it does. 

I see this knowledge increase as not having completely blossomed yet. Yes we see it, but it's still moving forward, so the question is where in the 'moving forward' are we? I don't think anyone knows exactly.

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7)

In the above verse, I contemplated if there are any modern-day prophets today, and if so, how we know who they are. They would need to be 100% accurate, 100% of the time. I have concluded we have the complete canon, there will be no further prophetic revelations, thus, the prophets, ended with John the Baptist, the gift of tongues, etc., ended with the last apostle John. The gift of tongues was granted to share the Gospel message in the listener’s tongue. IMO. The above does not preclude the Holy Spirit from giving individual revelation and understanding.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, (Hebrews 1:1) [emphasis mine]

You would be correct that for that time those prophets have done their work and are finished with it. We have entered into a new  prophetic era now IMO. After Christ anyone can be led with a word from God. Forth telling and fore telling. These words MUST ALWAYS line up with scripture and have confirmation. Paul had the gift of tongues. This was after the OT obviously. A good friend of mine has that gift. I would call it a 'prayer language' because I have only ever heard him murmer it under his breath in prayer. He has had it since he was 16.Many who have that particular gift will not disclose they have it and you won't know they have it unless the Lord leads them to use it in public under the right conditions. 

Also we have people being healed in my denomination. Confirmed healed. All of those gifts are still with the church, but most denominations squelch them. Still others abuse their use. If they were incorporated the way they were intended to be, we would have far less atheists around. They all want proof. Guess what? The gifts are that proof. Unfortunately some name it and claim it preacher on TV ruins the concept. Also the devil loves to try and copy it. Shut all the gifts out of our churches and guess what? It's not going to prosper spiritually.

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I believe some of the gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 were for the apostolic age only as a sign to verify the Gospel being preached (the Jews always required a sign). Today, we have been given individual gifts, fruits, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the ability to operate collectively as one church in the Lord. Pastors, deacons, teachers, workers, cheerful giving offerings and tithes, trustees, secretaries, treasurer, prayer warriors, etcetera.

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; (Romans 12:6)

②       the gift of interpreting divine will or purpose, gift of prophesying (Iren. 1, 13, 4 [Harv. I 120, 4]), of Rahab 1 Cl 12:8.

            •           Of Christians Ro 12:6; 1 Cor 12:10; 13:2, 8 v.l.; 14:22.^[1]

gifts: The Greek word (charismata) refers to God-given abilities that should be used to build up other members in the church. Although they are “irrevocable” and, thus do not change (11:29), they are to be pursued and developed (1 Pet. 4:10). prophecy: This word is used here in a general sense for all types of gifts that involve speaking God’s word. For example, in 1 Cor. 14:3 “exhortation” appears as a prophesying gift. In its narrower sense, prophecy means the revealing of God’s will in a particular situation (Acts 13:1–3).^[2]

Well, when you can show me where this all stopped I'll be in agreement. The verses used to support the view are not strong enough to make the case. I already showed those verses about those gifts stopping were for when the Lord returns or when we will "know as we are known" :)

The wider definition of prophecy does not omit the other functions of it :)

 

I see prophecy no different.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Yes, can't you tell? :)

When I read this verse I think about busy freeways and busy air traffic. People are criss crossing the globe on an unprecidented scale. And it goes without really saying how much knowledge continues to increase. It's incredible. AI helped me fill out my taxes this year.My car drives itself. It really does, although somewhat like a grandma sometimes. I could go on and on. 

We see the frution of that verse now. Does it temp a few to begin tpo see things that aren't there 'yet'? I think in many cases it does. 

I see this knowledge increase as not having completely blossomed yet. Yes we see it, but it's still moving forward, so the question is where in the 'moving forward' are we? I don't think anyone knows exactly.

You would be correct that for that time those prophets have done their work and are finished with it. We have entered into a new  prophetic era now IMO. After Christ anyone can be led with a word from God. Forth telling and fore telling. These words MUST ALWAYS line up with scripture and have confirmation. Paul had the gift of tongues. This was after the OT obviously. A good friend of mine has that gift. I would call it a 'prayer language' because I have only ever heard him murmer it under his breath in prayer. He has had it since he was 16.Many who have that particular gift will not disclose they have it and you won't know they have it unless the Lord leads them to use it in public under the right conditions. 

Also we have people being healed in my denomination. Confirmed healed. All of those gifts are still with the church, but most denominations squelch them. Still others abuse their use. If they were incorporated the way they were intended to be, we would have far less atheists around. They all want proof. Guess what? The gifts are that proof. Unfortunately some name it and claim it preacher on TV ruins the concept. Also the devil loves to try and copy it. Shut all the gifts out of our churches and guess what? It's not going to prosper spiritually.

Well, when you can show me where this all stopped I'll be in agreement. The verses used to support the view are not strong enough to make the case. I already showed those verses about those gifts stopping were for when the Lord returns or when we will "know as we are known" :)

The wider definition of prophecy does not omit the other functions of it :)

 

I see prophecy no different.

My denomination has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Perhaps I can understand your view better by knowing which denomination that is. Is it Pentecostal?

How we are raised and what denomination we adhere to affects our worldview and interpretations. I am a member of a Baptist church. I understand why there are so many denominations and sub-denominations, i.e., Anabaptists, General Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Southern Baptists, Reformed Baptists, etc.  

Exegetical teaching and core values are the main reasons for church splits, and the gossip mill closely follows them.

I grew up in a non-denominational, Gospel-preaching, Bible-believing church. None of them are here where I retired, so I selected the Baptist denomination because it most closely represented my Biblical beliefs.

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

My denomination has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Perhaps I can understand your view better by knowing which denomination that is. Is it Pentecostal?

How we are raised and what denomination we adhere to affects our worldview and interpretations. I am a member of a Baptist church. I understand why there are so many denominations and sub-denominations, i.e., Anabaptists, General Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Southern Baptists, Reformed Baptists, etc.  

Exegetical teaching and core values are the main reasons for church splits, and the gossip mill closely follows them.

I grew up in a non-denominational, Gospel-preaching, Bible-believing church. None of them are here where I retired, so I selected the Baptist denomination because it most closely represented my Biblical beliefs.

I already knew you were attending a Baptist church and I harbor no ill will towards them. Many have been saved in those churches.

Baptists are up close and personal to me since I was raiseed in a Baptist church from birth and attended one even afterwards when I left home.

Yet in later years I never agreed with some of their theology. I also realize that often finding a good church can be difficult. Even the baptist moniker has been corrupted on several fronts by apostacy, which I guess means, judge no book by it's cover. One could do far worse than a good methodist, baptist or presbyterian church. I believed most of what was taught. The people in those churches are often dedicated and good servants of Christ, sometimes caught in a less than stellar theological system. No two are the same. Even churches under the same denominational umbrella.

Neither am I saying my denomination is by any means perfect or has arrived, but it aligns most closely with my beliefs.

I would like to think that Christians do not just look at what the church they attend teaches and believe all of it, but sadly I think this is the case many times. The pastor said it, so it must be right.

The gifts are either in effect or they are not irregardless of any church. The degree to which we quench/discourage them is the degree they are usually seen. Churches that encourage the gifts will need to take a risk in allowing them, but much of this can be mitigated by checks and balances.Churches that tend to discourage the gifts because maybe they don't think they ever happen will reap what they sow. Noone who has such gifts will be likely to attend said churches, or if they do, they will not feel free in them.

I have Presbyterian and Baptist friends, but I attend a Vineyard church that is part of the Vineyard denomination. 

-They believe in tongues, healing and prophecy as relevant today, however they don't overly emphasize them like some of the more charismatic churches sometimes seem to do. There is a way tongues are allowed and they follow that way.Same with prophecy and the others. Healing is a real thing and I know people who have absolutely been healed. Tongues are not a prerequisite to recieving the spirit.

There is often some confusion about the Holy Spirit. I basically believe the same as the Baptists on the Holy Spirit. We get the Spirit when we are saved, however we can have the Spirit come over us to be used for special purposes. Some will say that's a filling of the Spirit.

So far as I know Baptists completely omit prophecy. In all the years I was in those churches I never seen anything to indicate it was encouraged.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

So far as I know Baptists completely omit prophecy. In all the years I was in those churches I never seen anything to indicate it was encouraged

I can pretty much vouch for that. I could take some educated guesses as to why. Every few months I will take it upon myself to deviate from our standard platform of Bible Studies for Life, Senior Adults, and teach prophecy. Sunday School attendance triples during those days, compared to the average. Since October 7. 2023 there has been a lot more interest in geopolitics and Biblical prophecy. 

Jer. 49, Isa. 17, Eze. 38 & 39, Psa. 83, etc. are now visible and manifesting. I am not disparaging the Baptists or any other denomination, but those who refrain from teaching the whole council of God, are doing a disservice. Our Bible is roughly one-third prophetic for a reason, so when it happens we know it was from God and for His glory, and not to keep the salt and light in the dark.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Timothy 3:16)

[Michael37]

15 hours ago, Starise said:

 I wish I had the video link to the conference. I know they recorded it. I think it would give a more complete reference. I'll see if I can find it.

There is a level of risk in incorporating prophecy into any church. For one thing it can often uncover the rotten eggs, or those things which are keeping a church from growing, which sometimes point to things within leadership. These words would be given privately to the leadership team apparently. The fruit of the Spirit in that case would be to give these words in love. 

In any church incorporating this, there should be strict checks and balances. In other words accountability. As in anything that happens within the church. I wish I could say it hasn't been abused. Like the pastor gone rogue, this can happen in prophetic ministry as well, and some of these guys either need to be let go or taken aside. It should never be a peacock ministry with stars. We are all servants.

It happens unfortunately.

My graphic depiction of characteristics associated with the flesh versus those of the Holy Spirit