Remember the sabath day

[wordsower]

In like manner, we should respect that this "jewish" sabbath is true...and it speaks of a higher law while being true today. If you keep that higher law you do well. If you ever tried keeping the letter of the law, you would find yourself blessed beyond what you could imagine.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Col 2:16-17 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a {mere} shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Act 15:5-6 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.

28-31 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. When they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement.

Mr SE

I'm just so glad somebody gets it.

[Guest yod]

The observance of Sabbath is not necessarily legalism. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in the 7th Day Adventist denomination. They definately have an unbalanced approach...but you continually judge everything about the Sabbath through these legalistic lenses.

There are 2 extremes on this subject and you have chosen the opposite extreme in a desire to reject your past experience in the SDA.

But there is harmony between these polar concepts of what Sabbath is and isn't

Shall utter lawlessness define us as christians?

Christians establish that the Sabbath is still a good thing for believers by taking 1 day out of 7 to congregate...even if they have chosen the "incorrect" day. Is it legalism to go to church on Sunday?

That depends on whether it is done out of obligation or freewill

[CarolineS]

First of all, no one is talking about doing away with, or disobeying God's Torah. I, for my part, am not even stating that the Torah has been "done away with," per se. What most here disagree with you about, is the form that obedience to the Torah is supposed to take.

[Guest shiloh357]

First of all, no one is talking about doing away with, or disobeying God's Torah. I, for my part, am not even stating that the Torah has been "done away with," per se. What most here disagree with you about, is the form that obedience to the Torah is supposed to take.

Oh, really? I believe you stated that keeping the Sabbath should only be done if one feels convicted to do so.

That it is optional. In other words, keep the Sabbath only if you feel like it.

Does that mean I only abstain from lying and stealing if I feel like it?

You have stated that if one believes in Christ, they have kept the Sabbath, even if they don't keep the literal day. That's a very interesting take on scripture when the 4th commandment states: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." (Ex. 20:7)

Jesus was present at creation. He spoke the world into existance. When he was done creating He blessed and sanctified the 7th Day, and He rested. The object of the Sabbath is "oneness" with God -- a day when we wholeheartedly concentrate on our relationship with Him. So how does accepting Christ and then ignoring His command to keep the 7th day holy -- how does that work? I don't get it.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[SavedOne]

ARE WE ATTEMPTING TO PLACE OURSELVES UNDER THE LAW AGAIN OR ARE WE ATTEMPTING TO LIVE IN THE SPIRIT AND IN THE FREEDOM JESUS BOUGHT FOR US?

SATURDAY OR SUNDAY WHAT DOES IT MATTER IN THE FRAMEWORK OF ETERNAL LIFE.... WHICH ONE OF US HERE ON EITHER DAY WE CALL THE SABBATH ACTUALLY HONORS IT TO THE FULL EXTENT AND COMPLETENESS WHICH THE LAW REQUIRES?????????? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY TIMES ALL OF US CHOOSE TO SOW DIVISION AND DEBATE OVER NON-ETERNAL DOCTRINE AND QUESTIONS... INSTEAD OF SOWING THE SEEDS OF GOD'S LOVE AND WORD SO THAT THE WORD AND THE SPIRIT CAN LEAD THE UNSAVED TO ETERNAL LIFE. SURE THE UNSAVED NEED TO KNOW BEFORE THEY ARE SAVED THAT THEY ARE UNDER THE LAW... OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE NO REASON TO CHANGE. BUT LET THOSE UNDER THE LAW DEBATE THE LAW, AND THOSE LIVING IN THE SPIRIT...SPEND THEIR TIME LEADING OTHERS TO JESUS AND THE SPIRITS FREEDOM AND AWAY FROM THE YOKE OF THE LAW

I CONSIDERED DELETING THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH BUT I BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO BE SAID WHAT POSSIBLE REASON IT THERE TO BRING UP SAT VS SUNDAY UNLESS IT IS TO BRING DOUBT AND CONFUSION INTO A YOUNG BELIEVERS MIND AND ATTEMPT TO PLACE THEM BACK UNDER THE THE LAW OR TO PLACE A WEDGE BETWEEN DIFFERENT ASSEMBLIES OF BELIEVERS . ONCE WE WERE SAVED IT WAS AND CONTINUES TO BE ALL OF OUR PLEASURE TO PRAY FOR GOD TO CONTINUE TO HELP US FLEE EVIL AND SIN AND INTO GOD'S LOVING ARMS, BUT IT IS NOT THE LAW'S OR A BELIEVER'S GOOD PLEASURE TO PLACE SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY RANDSOMED BACK UNDER THE LAW.....BLOCKED FROM THE SIGHT OF GOD, AND THE SPIRIT.

THIS IS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE IN THE HARVEST FIELD... AT GOSPEL BOOTHS AT THE FAIRS WE VISIT . WE HAVE BELIEVER'S??? TRY DAY IN AND DAY OUT TAKE UP OUR TIME DEBATING NON-ETERNAL DOCTRINES AND QUESTIONS WHILE WE AM TRYING TO SPEND OUR TIME PLANTING SEEDS IN UNBELIEVERS AND COMFORTING THE BROKEN HEARTS.... IN THE END I OFTEN HAVE TO ASK MYSELF WHOSE SIDE ARE THEY ON AND WHO SENT THEM. WORSE YET THEY OFTEN GET ANGRY WHEN YOU WON'T DEBATE.

I FIND MYSELF AGAIN AND AGAIN DRAWN TO AND LED BY GALATIONS CHAPTER 5 AND A FEW PARTS OF CHAPTER 6 ... AND THAT IS A BIG PART OF THE BASIS OF MY REMARKS ABOVE, ALONG WITH JESUS COMMENTS ON THE SABBATH AND THE TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS.

[MrSealedEternal]

ARE WE ATTEMPTING TO PLACE OURSELVES UNDER THE LAW AGAIN OR ARE WE ATTEMPTING TO LIVE IN THE SPIRIT AND IN THE FREEDOM JESUS BOUGHT FOR US?

SATURDAY OR SUNDAY WHAT DOES IT MATTER IN THE FRAMEWORK OF ETERNAL LIFE.... WHICH ONE OF US HERE ON EITHER DAY WE CALL THE SABBATH ACTUALLY HONORS IT TO THE FULL EXTENT AND COMPLETENESS WHICH THE LAW REQUIRES?????????? WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY TIMES ALL OF US CHOOSE TO SOW DIVISION AND DEBATE OVER NON-ETERNAL DOCTRINE AND QUESTIONS... ...................

The reason that issues like this come about, is because certain people try to create doctrines that only they are following, in order to feel like they are more spiritual than others. What is dangerous about this, is that this becomes a "work" by which people try to save themselves, or to prove they are saved. They therefore trust in themselves for salvation and as a result are prevented from trusting Christ.

I think that most of the people who are trying to refute this doctrine, are sincerely concerned about the salvation of those involved in it. I know that is my motive. Those who hold to it are desperate to defend their doctrine, because their faith is truly tied to this teaching, and to challenge the doctrine is to challenge their faith.

These types of discussions generally go on forever without either side conceding, because people have a tremendous ability to rationalize clinging to what they already believe. I still think that these types of debates are fruitful because God has a position on every issue, and if two sides disagree, someone is wrong, and we should never sacrifice truth for unity.

Mr SE

[CarolineS]

shiloh357,

How can you say that keeping the Sabbath has been suspended? Where in scripture does it state that?

Why would God initially bless and sanctify the Sabbath, eliminate it for a period, reinstate it for the Jews, eliminate it again, and then reinstate it when all flesh were united after the resurrection of His people?

Doesn't it seem obviously consistent to believe the seventh-day Sabbath that God blessed and sanctified is a perpetual covenant of love with His people?

Secondly, I am not aware that there are 613 commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God.

I am only aware of ten commandments written on two stone tablets that were placed inside the ark of His covenant. Are you referring to the Book of the Law -- Moses' book? The Ceremonial Law of Moses defined the earthly temple services and all the special annual sabbaths. Everything contained within the Ceremonial Law was a shadow that pointed to Jesus as the substance. The Law of Moses prescribed sacrifices, festivals, and ceremonial ordinances that were symbolic of Jesus.

Thirdly, I do trust in Christ alone. Keeping the Law does not save anyone. You are missing the point: I keep the Law because I am saved. Because I love Jesus. I want to obey Him, imitate Him, become like Him.

<1 John 2:3,4>

"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ' I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

<John 14:15>

"If you love Me, keep My commandments."

I would have to question a person's faith and relationship with Christ if they do not love God's Law. When you love someone, you do things that please them.

I believe the seventh-day Sabbath is the mark of God's authority as Creator and Redeemer. He calls it His sign between us that He is the One Who sanctifies us. But are christians really willing to trust and obey God? The Sabbath is a sign of our allegiance. It demonstrates whether we are serving God, our Creator -- or man, who dismisses the Lord's commandment by tradition.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[CarolineS]

Greetings,

I just had a thought. The problem here is that some are mistaking obedience for legalism.

Legalism is trying to earn salvation by good wroks. The saints are identified in the Bible as having four characteristics: (1) keeping the commandments, (2) trusting the blood of the Lamb, (3) sharing their faith with others, and (4) choosing to die rather than to sin. These are the true marks of the person who is in love with Christ and has made a life commitment to follow Him.

Keeping the Ten Commandments in an atempt to earn salvation will result only in sorrow and despair. But the person who has experienced the gift of salvation delights in walking the path of obedience to God's Law.

It is because I love God so deeply for changing my life, it is a joy to follow His Law. Obedience is the natural response of love in my life. Being born of God, as a new creature, I want to obey Him because His life has become a part of my life. To please someone you love is not a burden, but a delight.

<Psalm 40:8>

"I delight to do they will, O my God: yea, they law is within my heart."

I am going to continue to follow Jesus and His Law. Because I love Him so much, I will remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. It's not about a literal day, it's about trusting and obeying.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Guest shiloh357]

Secondly, I am not aware that there are 613 commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God.

I am only aware of ten commandments written on two stone tablets that were placed inside the ark of His covenant. Are you referring to the Book of the Law -- Moses' book? The Ceremonial Law of Moses defined the earthly temple services and all the special annual sabbaths. Everything contained within the Ceremonial Law was a shadow that pointed to Jesus as the substance. The Law of Moses prescribed sacrifices, festivals, and ceremonial ordinances that were symbolic of Jesus.

the 613 commandments were given by God and are just as much part of the Word of God as the 10 commandments. The Ten Commandments are a summary of entire Torah. These are not the "ceremonial laws of Moses." All of that was established by God. IF you are going to harp on Sabbath observance as being necessary, then you need to find all of the 613 that apply to your life and you must keep them with the same diligence that you keep the Sabbath in order to be internally consistent with your theology. That means ALL of them.

The "Law of Moses" also prescribed the Sabbath as well in Leviticus 23. It is the first of God's apppointed Times listed. The Sabbath is a Festival just like the New Moon. Just like Yom Kippur. Do you fast on Yom Kippur? (That means no food and no water) You cannot treat one of God's appointed times with less diligence than the rest and still be internally consistent.

Going by your standard if you love God, then you will not sleep with your husband during the last week of your cycle. If you love God, then you will eat ONLY what God has prescribed in Deut 14. If you love God, you will fast on Yom Kippur. If you love God you will follow all of the hygenic laws that apply to you. If you love God you will find all of the 613 commandments and you will do them. If not, then you must not love God according to your standard.

Thirdly, I do trust in Christ alone.

No you don't. According to you, those who don't keep the Sabbath will not go to be with Lord when He returns. That means that for you part, non-Sabbath observance is detrimental to one's salvation. You have already demonstrated that when you said the following:

How can everyone who accetps Jesus as Lord and Savior keep the Sabbath as God commanded? Are you saying, all we have to do is accept Christ and we have kept the Sabbath?

Can anyone know Christ without obeying His commandments? It would seem that when a person's actions reflect a glaring disregard for God's Commandments, they are separated from Jesus. They are lost -- spiritually dead.

Sin is lawlessness, the breaking of God's Law -- either through doubt, disbelief, apathy or rebellion. Sin separates us from God. By ignoring God's seventh-day Sabbath we commit lawlessness that separates us from a loving Savior.

Anyone who reads this can see that you see Sabbath observance as a salvation issue. It is not just something you are doing because you are saved. For your part you do not believe that those who do not observe the Sabbath are going to go to be with the Lord when he calls His Bride:

Satan lost heaven because of disobedience. Adam and Eve lost the garden because of disobedience. Jesus is coming back and taking with Him His bride, those who are righteous and follow and obey Him. I don't think that those who rebel against His law and knowingly sin will be going anywhere with Him.

In Christ,

CarolineS

There is no mistaking your posts. You say one thing about being saved by faith, and then you constradict yourself by saying that we who do not hold to mandatory Sabbath observance are disobedient and probably will not be part of those that Jesus calls when He comes back.

You need to make up your mind what you believe.

[Arthur Durnan]

Ellen Gould Harmon White & her 19th-century religious philosophy called SDA fails to grasp the Bible fact that the Mosaic Code - including the Ten Commandments given specifically to the literal nation of Israel - was nailed to Christ's Cross as declared quite clearly in Galatians, the Epistle for all Seventh-day Adventists and other legalists. Things - or people - nailed to crosses don't come back down alive! The fact conveniently overlooked by SDA & compatriots is that NINE of the Ten Commandments given to the literal nation of Israel under the Mosaic Code are repeated in the New Testament (under the New Covenant) for the Church of Jesus Christ - distinct from the literal nation of Israel - today, ie, the ONE not repeated for the Church of Jesus Christ today, is the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath. Both the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath & the rite of circumcision were given specifically to the literal nation of Israel as express indications of that nation's relationship with Jehovah God. Don't miss Paul's Epistle to the Galatians: it'll "blow the mind" of every Seventh-day legalist!

Let's not go backward in the Christian walk, but ever and only forward & upward to the Living Christ of God! Amen & Amen!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com