Remember the sabath day

[toothless]

Yod, and others,

We should stick to the original question: Is it important to keep the Sabbath since we will be keeping it in the new heaven and the new earth?

Caroline posted the above comment, is it factual, it is of course Isa 66:23

And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The 64th verse certianly implies that it is not an eternal kingdom reference, and I think it is not

a Sabbath reference either, I am open to correction but I see the text stating.

My paraphrase: From week to week, and month to month, all people will come to worship me.

The word chodesh is not a sacred time period but simply a lunar cycle, and shabbath is used

for several different sacred events many of which that are not weekly, I'm open to correction

but I just don't see sabbath keeping in this verse.

I also don't think the promised rest of Hebrews 4 is fufilled in a weekly Sabbath, that rest is in

Christ, if we claim that the rest we are promised is a weekly one that implys a lack of rest

ie poor relationship with Christ in the millinian reign.

Christ's promise is to provide rest for the weary, even if a person conceeds that Christ raised the

standard of law keeping, then you are forced to ponder what type of rest is better than a weekly rest,

that rest, or to be more specific a prearanged communion time, that that time would be of higher

quality than weekly and would in fact be a constant unbroken communion.

Just a few thoughts, didn't read them in a book, could be way off.

Bill

[Guest yod]

Christ's promise is to provide rest for the weary, even if a person conceeds that Christ raised the standard of law keeping, then you are forced to ponder what type of rest is better than a weekly rest, that rest, or to be more specific a prearanged communion time, that that time would be of higher quality than weekly and would in fact be a constant unbroken communion.

OK then...the only arguement you have left is which day

if it a matter between Saturday and Sunday then it is factual that the Sabbath has always been on a Saturday. However, as long as it is every 7th day do you not concede that the spirit of this law is kept? And since we are admonished more than a few times in the New Testament not to judge another brother over their observances (for we each keep them to the Lord) then what is the point of even debating this with people who do keep one day out of seven as the paragraph I quoted from you says?

Do you honestly think that a Sunday christian who changes his "church day" to Saturday will please God more by that?

If so...why didn't the Apostles say that even once??

[toothless]

Christ's promise is to provide rest for the weary, even if a person conceeds that Christ raised the standard of law keeping, then you are forced to ponder what type of rest is better than a weekly rest, that rest, or to be more specific a prearanged communion time, that that time would be of higher quality than weekly and would in fact be a constant unbroken communion.

OK then...the only arguement you have left is which day

Woosh the sound of the thought passing by, the point I was ATTEMPTING to make is

the rest is every day and the context was the millinial kingdom.

if it a matter between Saturday and Sunday then it is factual that the Sabbath has always been on a Saturday. However, as long as it is every 7th day do you not concede that the spirit of this law is kept? And since we are admonished more than a few times in the New Testament not to judge another brother over their observances (for we each keep them to the Lord) then what is the point of even debating this with people who do keep one day out of seven as the paragraph I quoted from you says?

Didn't quote me..about that thought.

Do you honestly think that a Sunday christian who changes his "church day" to Saturday will please God more by that? NOPE

If so...why didn't the Apostles say that even once?? Good question!

Your preaching to the choir man, there are a plethera of new test. verses about all maner of

behavior and zero in reference to sabbath keeping except not to judge about it.

I really wish you had actually read my post.

[JesusisGod2]

Yod, and others,

We should stick to the original question: Is it important to keep the Sabbath since we will be keeping it in the new heaven and the new earth?

Caroline posted the above comment, is it factual, it is of course Isa 66:23

And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The 64th verse certianly implies that it is not an eternal kingdom reference, and I think it is not

a Sabbath reference either, I am open to correction but I see the text stating.

My paraphrase: From week to week, and month to month, all people will come to worship me.

The word chodesh is not a sacred time period but simply a lunar cycle, and shabbath is used

for several different sacred events many of which that are not weekly, I'm open to correction

but I just don't see sabbath keeping in this verse.

I also don't think the promised rest of Hebrews 4 is fufilled in a weekly Sabbath, that rest is in

Christ, if we claim that the rest we are promised is a weekly one that implys a lack of rest

ie poor relationship with Christ in the millinian reign.

Christ's promise is to provide rest for the weary, even if a person conceeds that Christ raised the

standard of law keeping, then you are forced to ponder what type of rest is better than a weekly rest,

that rest, or to be more specific a prearanged communion time, that that time would be of higher

quality than weekly and would in fact be a constant unbroken communion.

Just a few thoughts, didn't read them in a book, could be way off.

Bill

Hi Toothless,

Actually this verse has been brought up earlier and I dont think it really has anything to do with a Christian and the Sabbath and like you said I dont really believe it is a definate reference to Sabbath being observed as it is an analogy of saying that they will worship Jesus, it will be demanded not a choice, much like what you have stated.

In either case, it is definately not a strong verse for the arguement that the Sabbath will be observed, especially in reference to Christians.

This is in reference to the millinial kingdom and those who have been spared Gods wrath in the tribulation. The saints will be with and rule with Christ and we will be in our resurrected bodies and not the flesh.

From what I understand those who participate in the millinial kingdom who have been spared death in the tribulation and Gods wrath, and will be accountable to the law including the sacrifices, etc... Hence the wording "all flesh".

They will also be able to repopulate the earth which Christians who are in Christ and have been resurrected wil not for we will not be given in marriage nor be male or female. We have already accepted the only sacrifice that is able to save and have been resurrected.

The period of grace is over at this time and mankind will be accountable and judged for their sin by the true judge.

I also do not believe that it has any reference to the new heaven and the new earth, because that will be for Gods people.

[toothless]

Hi Toothless,

{Hi and you can call me Bill, I actually have all my teeth.}

Actually this verse has been brought up earlier and I dont think it really has anything to do with a Christian and the Sabbath and like you said I dont really believe it is a definate reference to Sabbath being observed as it is an analogy of saying that they will worship Jesus, it will be demanded not a choice, much like what you have stated.

{That's a problem as people come and go subjects get beaten to death}

In either case, it is definately not a strong verse for the arguement that the Sabbath will be observed, especially in reference to Christians.

This is in reference to the millinial kingdom and those who have been spared Gods wrath in the tribulation. The saints will be with and rule with Christ and we will be in our resurrected bodies and not the flesh.

{ I think this thought alone would be worth persuing }

From what I understand those who participate in the millinial kingdom who have been spared death in the tribulation and Gods wrath, and will be accountable to the law including the sacrifices, etc... Hence the wording "all flesh".

{ Do you mind me asking a source? it sounds alot like Footsteps of the Messiah.}

They will also be able to repopulate the earth which Christians who are in Christ and have been resurrected wil not for we will not be given in marriage nor be male or female. We have already accepted the only sacrifice that is able to save and have been resurrected.

{We are clearly on the same page, I think it is these persons will be the ones who's bodys are spoken

of in vs.64}

The period of grace is over at this time and mankind will be accountable and judged for their sin by the true judge.

I also do not believe that it has any reference to the new heaven and the new earth, because that will be for Gods people.

{Looking at corpses does not seem much like an eternal realm context does it?

thanks for the flesh and resurrected saint comparison that will be fun to research as time permits }

[wordsower]

I'm not buying that every denomination meets one day of the week showing that they observe the 4th commandment. Maybe a few dead churches meet once a week but most meet at least Wednesday also and mine meets 3 times, Sunday Tuesday and Wednesday and many times on SATURDAY, imagine that! Besides, they don't meet any of those days claiming that it is the Sabbath. We have the gift shop open, which would violate the buying and selling law, we travel, cook, whatever else on the same day, which brings me to my next point: Who is really observing the Sabbath as the law demands anyway? A few Orthodox Jews, possibly, but who else?

Yod's point is that meeting on Sunday is a holdover from the Catholic Church's declaration that Sunday is the "new Sabbath." Ultimately Sunday worship has its roots in the 1st commandment. That is simple historic fact, so it doesn't matter if you "buy it" or not.

Yes, they meet other days of the week, but Sunday is the primary day churches meet. Having services on Wed. or on other days of the week is a more modern tradition as means of adapting to the schedules of those who for whatever reason cannot meet on Sunday.

Whether they claim Sunday is the Sabbath or not, isn't the point. The point is that Sunday meetings are an outgrowth of the fourth commandment, again it is historic fact that cannot be refuted.

Justin the Martyr was being persecuted for meeting on Sunday long before the RCC came along, so what say you?

I have heard the Pope conspiracy and I agree they did attempt to change the day, but only because they have no spiritual discernment. That is evident in most of their doctrines. They still confess to a priest so they are still trying to live under the law among other strange things.

[wordsower]

One last point before the weekend:

Can we just not accept that God can give certain commands to certain people at certain times for certain reasons?

We debate over the Sabbath when clearly the law was given to Israel. No one has shown where it was given to the Gentiles.

Circumcision was a command and it is clearly no longer required. Did God change His mind? No, he made that command specifically to Israel as a natural symbol to a coming spiritual circumcision of the heart.

Covenants were made with different people throughout the Bible and they are not pertaining to us at all.

It doesn't mean God changed His mind, it means it wasn't for everyone.

If I "command" my kids to pick up the trash in the yard, doesn't mean I'm expecting anyone else to pick it up. When they get it picked up it's over and there is no need for them to do it again.

Don't know if I'm making any sense so I'll quote the Word, since that's my name

And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. Deut. 5:1-3

Blessings and prayers

Sabra

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm not buying that every denomination meets one day of the week showing that they observe the 4th commandment. Maybe a few dead churches meet once a week but most meet at least Wednesday also and mine meets 3 times, Sunday Tuesday and Wednesday and many times on SATURDAY, imagine that! Besides, they don't meet any of those days claiming that it is the Sabbath. We have the gift shop open, which would violate the buying and selling law, we travel, cook, whatever else on the same day, which brings me to my next point: Who is really observing the Sabbath as the law demands anyway? A few Orthodox Jews, possibly, but who else?

Yod's point is that meeting on Sunday is a holdover from the Catholic Church's declaration that Sunday is the "new Sabbath." Ultimately Sunday worship has its roots in the 1st commandment. That is simple historic fact, so it doesn't matter if you "buy it" or not.

Yes, they meet other days of the week, but Sunday is the primary day churches meet. Having services on Wed. or on other days of the week is a more modern tradition as means of adapting to the schedules of those who for whatever reason cannot meet on Sunday.

Whether they claim Sunday is the Sabbath or not, isn't the point. The point is that Sunday meetings are an outgrowth of the fourth commandment, again it is historic fact that cannot be refuted.

Justin the Martyr was being persecuted for meeting on Sunday long before the RCC came along, so what say you?

I have heard the Pope conspiracy and I agree they did attempt to change the day, but only because they have no spiritual discernment. That is evident in most of their doctrines. They still confess to a priest so they are still trying to live under the law among other strange things.

You are missing the point. Obviously, the Catholic church did not have the power to literally change the day, and override the word. However, they did declare their belief that Sunday is the new Sabbath. And ever since that belief has been an undercurrent in Christian thought.

As for Justin Martyr, no one said that Sunday worship oringinated with the Catholic Church. We are saying they declared it fully and finally to be the Sabbath. The reformers who broke off from the Catholic Church did not give up that idea. To deny that this belief has been part of the historical church is simply incorrect.

The "Sunday Sabbath" has long been a part of Christian thought, and is the source behind many of our tradition. One only need to go back say 100 years and see how people lived on Sunday. Back then stores were closed, people rested. You cannot read our present culture into anything. Things that people do today on Sunday, would have been unheard of two generations ago. It is only our culture today that runs to the mall, to the beach or goes garage saling on Sunday. There was a time when Sunday was honored as the Sabbath.

[JesusisGod2]

The "Sunday Sabbath" has long been a part of Christian thought, and is the source behind many of our tradition. One only need to go back say 100 years and see how people lived on Sunday. Back then stores were closed, people rested. You cannot read our present culture into anything. Things that people do today on Sunday, would have been unheard of two generations ago. It is only our culture today that runs to the mall, to the beach or goes garage saling on Sunday. There was a time when Sunday was honored as the Sabbath.

This is very true 2 generations ago. I was raised catholic and it was a day to go to church and have family dinners together all of which were not bad things and to be honest would make the world a better place to slow down and spend this day in fellowship.

I remember most stores were closed and malls were unheard of. Most buisnesses were closed so fathers were home. Better get your groceries the day befoe or chances were not many stores would be open.

I believe this was how White Hen Pantry and 7-11 and Convienience Marts all made their big enterances. They were the ones who started being opened on Sundays and supplied the little things that might have been forgotten to be purchased during the week such as milk, bread, butter etc...

It seems that most people were catholic in those days at least where I grew up and it isnt a small town unless some consider Chicago small. I never even met my 1st Baptist until I was about 14 and never even heard of a Pentecostal or a Charismatic until I was in the Army. So the catholics dominated in those days and it was a sin not to go to church in honor of their "Sabbath" or to work on that day.

So you make a good point Shiloh, Sunday until about the last 30 years was a day of rest. But anymore a lot of companies require you work on Sundays.

[Pilgrim7]

The whole world is under the moral law, the condemnation of the Moral law, the Ten Commandments. They define the main sins of a world that does not fear God or keep His commandments. God's people have been forgiven their transgression of His Commandments and now as loyal, obedient children do His will out love and appreciation of the forgiveness and the New Heart that they have been given, the Holy Spirit of God, the very mind of God, dwelling in them.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

God's Children, whether Jew or Gentile, are led by the Holy Spirit into all truth and righteousness, walk in the Spirit of rightouesness and holiness and love and keep the will of God, not just Ten Commandments, but they love God with all the heart, mind, soul and strength and also tlove their neighbor, including their enemies, even those who impune their motives, integrety and understanding on this board. You see they are led by the Spirit, and thus don't need a law with its death penalty to get them to obey. All they need to know is what the will of god is and they will do it.

Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Only these have escaped the condemnation of the Law which is death. They now have a "New Heart" or nature, the "Divine nature" implanted within them by the Spirit of the Living God and they now love as God loves. They are free from the law that says 'the wages of sin is death' because they are dead to the flesh, thus dead to sin. They love all that God created for all that He created was perfect. This includes His created Sabbath day. It was created perfect. God loves His Holy Sabbath Day, the 7th day, and so do His people who love him and His laws.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (That would be Holy things, of the Holy things of God, or the things that God said are Holy.)

8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life (eternal life) and peace.8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (this is why the New Covenant writes the law of God in the heart of the believer)

8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

A loving child of God not keeping the commandments of God is kind of hard to figure. Children who don't obey their fathers are usually called rebels, not faithful.

God Bless,

Dennis