ted Posted December 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted December 18, 2005 What more do you need than the Bible? It's there. We either make the choice to believe it, or we don't. I mean, I don't think someone's going to find His old drivers license or an autographed picture. It's all about the faith in what has been preserved for us. Either way, we'll find out soon enough whether it's all true or not. Personally, I'm saying yes. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted December 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted December 18, 2005 What more do you need than the Bible? It's there. We either make the choice to believe it, or we don't. I mean, I don't think someone's going to find His old drivers license or an autographed picture. It's all about the faith in what has been preserved for us. Either way, we'll find out soon enough whether it's all true or not. Personally, I'm saying yes. t. If I might add, Ted, Where the bible deals with history it is correct. Where it deals with science it is correct. Whatever the bible deals with it is correct. Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted December 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I agree, Larry. I have yet to see any credible evidence that what the Bible says about anything is wrong or inaccurate. Personally, I feel that things which confuse us in it's pages are the result of our own failings of discovery. In other words, we simply have yet to find things, rather than it being wrong. Some things, though, are left secret only to God, but we are given enough to make informed decisions about His word. (Deut 29:29) My fear is that newer generations will simply continue to over question the matter and debate themselves straight to hell. Lord come. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2005 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3. "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular." Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) - Annals "On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun." Thallus Circa AD 52 (as quoted by Julius Africanas) One thing I would like to add to this one, he mentions that it grew dark AND there was a major earthquake in Judea as the same time. This is recorded in Luke 23:44-45. To add to it, the crucifixion occured during a full moon...you can't have a solar eclipse during a full moon...yet it is recorded as occuring in history. In fact, Africanas quotes Phlegon as well: Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2005 Leonard: There is simply more historical evidence for Jesus, than for ANY fact of the ancient world. Perhaps you could cite some. I'd like to hear some too. People here keep telling me there is all this proof and when I press for some all I get are bible verses and Josephus, which is proven to be a fraud. Josephus has not been proven to be a fraud. What it is, is people doubt his writings because he lends credit to Christ being a deity. However, the writing style is the same throughout all of Josephus' writings. Only the ignorant call it a fraud. None the less, I have supplied much more than Josephus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted December 19, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/05/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thank you apothanein kerdos thats exactly the kind of stuff I needed and right before Christmas, I shall concider it my Christmas present! God Bless Irish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 19, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thank you apothanein kerdos thats exactly the kind of stuff I needed and right before Christmas, I shall concider it my Christmas present! God Bless Irish No problem. Apologetics (defense of Christianity) is a three pronged weapon: 1) Stengthens the faith of the person using it 2) Strengthens the faith of the Christians around it 3) Provides a logical reason for the unbeliever I'm glad it helped you out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebrews_beauty Posted December 20, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2005 Here are some links that may be worthy of checking out: Shattering the Christ-Myth Gospel Dates, Gospel Authors, Gospels Freedoms Extra-biblical references to Jesus and Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John3;16 Posted December 22, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 274 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/09/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/16/1955 Share Posted December 22, 2005 irish I am surprised that no one has offered any historical evidence of Jesus; this is a question that will no doubt be asked a lot of after the release of this movie. I have been asked this question several times as a Christian and to be honest I did not have an honest answer to give to them only the accounts of the four gospels. We need to prepare a satisfactory explanation through study and prayer. Christians should not shy away from any questions asked of us, and I am asking those of you who have studied history share some historical evidence with the rest of us so we may counter these arguments. Yours in Christ Irish There is a book I would recommend to you, it is filled with references of expert analysis of writings of antiquity, and even though there are no direct original transcripts of the bible, there are copies from within a generation, and writings from the disciples of the Apostles and the generations following shortly after, such as Polycarp (A.D 115), Justin Martyr A.D. 100-165), Ignatius (A.D 50-115), there are many other secular references also, such as a letter from Pliny to the Emperor (A.D. 112), Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) was a recorder of history and is referred to as the greatest historian of ancient Rome, two of his most notable works are Annals and the Histories, the Annals cover the era from Augustus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted December 23, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2005 I dunno, I'm not a big fan of McDowell's works. He deals with a lot of effects but not really the cause. I mean, we can learn all we want about Apologetics, but until we study worldviews, how they are shaped, how they effect what they do, etc...it's like having a bunch of ammunition without a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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