nebula Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Look - I live in the heart of the Baltimore-D.C. corridor. There is a rising Muslim population in my community. My life may literally be dependant on these security measures. I also, being where I live, grew up around government employess. They aren't the monsters it seems folks like to paint them. I trust their voices more than conspiracy theorists'. And I need to leave this debate before I say things I have been told I need to stay away from. But I really hope your heart is open to what RickLee said - because if we disobey Scripture in this, God will hold us to account for our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 Look - I live in the heart of the Baltimore-D.C. corridor. There is a rising Muslim population in my community. My life may literally be dependant on these security measures. I also, being where I live, grew up around government employess. They aren't the monsters it seems folks like to paint them. I trust their voices more than conspiracy theorists'. And I need to leave this debate before I say things I have been told I need to stay away from. But I really hope your heart is open to what RickLee said - because if we disobey Scripture in this, God will hold us to account for our nation. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin History has shown time and time again that if you give the government a window into your life, the government will abuse that privilege. Big brother scares me more than big government any day. We cannot sacrifice the freedoms that this nation was founded upon in the name of some assurance of security. The fact is, the price of true freedom will probably have to be paid on our soil at times. You should not just exhibit blind trust in any government leader. They are all fallible. They are all subject to free will. They will either choose to do the right thing, or rationalize doing the wrong thing. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) Carter Used Same Spy Powers As Bush December 19th, 2005 Almost immediately after the enactment of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, President Jimmy "the Saint" Carter issued Executive Order #12139: Foreign Intelligence Electronic Surveillance By the authority vested in me as President by Sections 102 and 104 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802 and 1804), in order to provide as set forth in that Act for the authorization of electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes, it is hereby ordered as follows: 1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section. 1-102. Pursuant to Section 102(b) of the Foreign Intelligence Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(b)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve applications to the court having jurisdiction under Section 103 of that Act to obtain orders for electronic surveillance for the purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence information. 1-103. Pursuant to Section 104(a)(7) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1804(a)(7)), the following officials, each of whom is employed in the area of national security or defense, is designated to make the certifications required by Section 104(a)(7) of the Act in support of applications to conduct electronic surveillance: (a) Secretary of State. (b) Secretary of Defense. Edited December 21, 2005 by forrestkc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 PETA/GREENPEACE on the news lastnight complaining that they were shocked that they were investigated. Ummm sorry, in a summer 2005 article in Woods and Waters magazine (a reliable magazine by the way) one of its stories was how PETA made donations to a terrorist group with the "suggestion/plea" not to use donkey's as bomb carriers. I know it wasn't Al Queda....I can't remember the name of the group...I'll have to go look up that magazine and see if I can find that story again. I'll copy it here if I can. Actions like that get you investigated, I agree with wiretaps, I agree though that there may have been a better routine to follow in doing them. Hindsight is always better. Love and Blessings, Angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ConstantComment Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Really folks, the bottom line on this is that Fisa allows X to act swiftly and put a wire tap on those dangerous terrorists so we can catch'em or put a stop to their evil doings and while X is listening in and getting all the secret info we need, his buddy XX has SEVENTY TWO HOURS (72 HOURS) that's THREE DAYS (3 DAYS) before he even needs to go before the FISA court and convince them that who they are spying on is necessary. So the President saying that they needed to go around the LAW to do these wire taps quickly is actually a LIE. As I understand it, only ONCE (1 time) in 30 years have they said the reason or evidence was not good enough and denied THE AUTHORIZATION TO CONINUE. That means that X was able to spy on A for a full 3 days anyway. You CANNOT accomplish this any quicker by going around the LAW for the LAW provides the means for the quickest action possible. God Bless Bush is right because he needs all the help he can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 PETA/GREENPEACE on the news lastnight complaining that they were shocked that they were investigated. Ummm sorry, in a summer 2005 article in Woods and Waters magazine (a reliable magazine by the way) one of its stories was how PETA made donations to a terrorist group with the "suggestion/plea" not to use donkey's as bomb carriers. I know it wasn't Al Queda....I can't remember the name of the group...I'll have to go look up that magazine and see if I can find that story again. I'll copy it here if I can. Actions like that get you investigated, I agree with wiretaps, I agree though that there may have been a better routine to follow in doing them. Hindsight is always better. Love and Blessings, Angel Why would the Catholic Workers Group be investigated then? Why are there no right wing groups on the list of those investigated like militia groups? The only reason why you would not pursue a warrant within 72 hours after the wiretap is because you do not want any actual oversight to look into who you are monitoring. Thats the only reasonable explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 PETA/GREENPEACE on the news lastnight complaining that they were shocked that they were investigated. Ummm sorry, in a summer 2005 article in Woods and Waters magazine (a reliable magazine by the way) one of its stories was how PETA made donations to a terrorist group with the "suggestion/plea" not to use donkey's as bomb carriers. I know it wasn't Al Queda....I can't remember the name of the group...I'll have to go look up that magazine and see if I can find that story again. I'll copy it here if I can. Actions like that get you investigated, I agree with wiretaps, I agree though that there may have been a better routine to follow in doing them. Hindsight is always better. Love and Blessings, Angel Why would the Catholic Workers Group be investigated then? Why are there no right wing groups on the list of those investigated like militia groups? The only reason why you would not pursue a warrant within 72 hours after the wiretap is because you do not want any actual oversight to look into who you are monitoring. Thats the only reasonable explanation. Honestly, I don't know why those certain groups were investigated, I'm not privy to certain information, and its good to remember that neither are you. Love and Blessings, Angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted December 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2005 PETA/GREENPEACE on the news lastnight complaining that they were shocked that they were investigated. Ummm sorry, in a summer 2005 article in Woods and Waters magazine (a reliable magazine by the way) one of its stories was how PETA made donations to a terrorist group with the "suggestion/plea" not to use donkey's as bomb carriers. I know it wasn't Al Queda....I can't remember the name of the group...I'll have to go look up that magazine and see if I can find that story again. I'll copy it here if I can. Actions like that get you investigated, I agree with wiretaps, I agree though that there may have been a better routine to follow in doing them. Hindsight is always better. Love and Blessings, Angel Why would the Catholic Workers Group be investigated then? Why are there no right wing groups on the list of those investigated like militia groups? The only reason why you would not pursue a warrant within 72 hours after the wiretap is because you do not want any actual oversight to look into who you are monitoring. Thats the only reasonable explanation. Honestly, I don't know why those certain groups were investigated, I'm not privy to certain information, and its good to remember that neither are you. Love and Blessings, Angel That is exactly why you have to have oversight. That is exactly why the law requires the federal government to either obtain a warrant before issuing a wiretap, or in the case of an emergency to obtain a warrant within 3 days after the wiretap was issued. Do you honestly feel that it is a good idea to place such blind trust in the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted December 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2005 Ah, but I never said I place my "trust" in the government. I place my trust in Jesus Assumptions on our part can be just as dangerous as "total" government control. I don't believe in doing or allowing either one. I will keep my "assumptions" on how I see a situation to myself. Not to shock you But I believe too that warrents should of been gotten in the 3 day time period. I just refuse to "assume" about why they weren't. Eventualy the truth will come out, and then some of us will be finding our assumptions were wrong/right. If I blabbed out all of the assumptions I have had in my life, I would be in a padded room I push them back and pray Love and Blessings, Angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 22, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,250 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,981 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2005 16. Out of the temporary evil we are now compelled to commit will emerge the good of an unshakable rule, which will restore the regular course of the machinery of the national life, brought to naught by liberalism. The result justifies the means. Let us, however, in our plans, direct our attention not so much to what is good and moral as to what is necessary and useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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