Salvation, Faith, Baptism

[kittylover0991]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Why do I keep being told that we are saved through "good works" or baptism or that we can go to heaven if we are good?

[yomotalking]

Only faith in Christ Jesus can get you to Heaven.

[Ovedya]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Why do I keep being told that we are saved through "good works" or baptism or that we can go to heaven if we are good?

Because you are being lied to be ignorant persons.

[st. Worm]

"Why do I keep being told that we are saved through "good works" or baptism or that we can go to heaven if we are good?"

Could it be you are not really being told that? The grace of God and the Word working through water in the sacrament of baptism has nothing to do with good works. Baptism works faith and strengthens the faith of those given faith through the Word prior to their baptism. Baptism is something that is done to us and not something we do. Unless of course you are a Baptist. Then you believe baptism is a good work. But even Baptists don't baptize themselves unless there is some other new movement that I know nothing about.

[Guest LadyC]

water baptism is not a prerequisite for getting into heaven. yes, scripture tells us we should be baptized in water. it is a public and outward symbol of death to our flesh and regeneration in spirit. it is symbolic of a second birth. but when we become saved, we are bapitzed by the Holy Spirit. THAT is what counts eternally.

the theif on the cross did not have the opportunity to be baptized in water. same can be said for many people throughout history who have accepted Christ at the end of their life.

but if we accept Christ, and are able to be baptized in water, i suppose the question is, why would we not want to, when doing so pleases God?

[st. Worm]

quote from Lady C

"water baptism is not a prerequisite for getting into heaven. yes, scripture tells us we should be baptized in water. it is a public and outward symbol of death to our flesh and regeneration in spirit. it is symbolic of a second birth. but when we become saved, we are bapitzed by the Holy Spirit. THAT is what counts eternally.

the theif on the cross did not have the opportunity to be baptized in water. same can be said for many people throughout history who have accepted Christ at the end of their life.

but if we accept Christ, and are able to be baptized in water, i suppose the question is, why would we not want to, when doing so pleases God?"

Baptism indeed is not a requirement but faith is and baptism works faith in infants. It is not just a symbol. It is a sign and seal. Nothing in Scripture describes baptism as a mere symbol.

Accepting Christ? How gracious of you! We receive the gift of faith by grace and not because of our "acceptance" of Christ. We belief because we have been given faith by an act of God's grace.

I know this is largely an Arminian and in some cases Pelagian board of baptist Christians, but I will continue to state a view of baptism that is more biblical (in my view) and historical. I will do the same regarding the nature of sin and our lack of ability to "accept" Christ in our fallen condition. Grace does not mean we make some free will choice about salvation. Free will is a myth since the Fall. Don't mean to anger anyone in the process of discussing these things from a historical Reformation perspective.

Further God is not pleased with us. He is only pleased with his Son and we receive God's pleasure only on account of Jesus.

Blessings to all.

Edited December 30, 2005 by st. Worm

[nebula]

Baptism indeed is not a requirement but faith is and baptism works faith in infants.

I was raised in a Lutheran Church, and I remember learning through Confirmation class that Confirmation was saying, "Yes" to your infant baptism.

Thing is, though - I didn't understand why I had to wait until a certain age before I could affirm my faith through Confirmation (and Communion for that matter, but that's a different topic). You see, I made the choice to be a follower of Jesus by the time I was in first grade - and I did know what it was I was doing, and it was a decision of my heart,a nd I knew it to be such. foir goodness sakes, I was teased enough by my classmates over my devotion to Jesus!

When I was in high school, I became a part of a charismaniac fellowship where I was taught about baptism being a confession of your faith - and that being the baptism of total immersion, for how else do you take part in the burial and resurrection by being sprinkled?

Anyway, even though I was baptised as a baby via water poured over my head and confirmed at the age of 12, I chose to be baptised for real in a pool of water via total immersion. When I came up out of the water, I literally felt the touch of God on my life.

I have no recollection of such an experience when I was baptised as a baby.

The point is, my infant/baby baptism had no meaning to me whatsoever.

Faith in me was something that came through my hearing of the Word of God (and just for comparison, I was the only child among my pears in Sunday school who seemed to actually want to talk about God and spiritual matters. So, if you want to claim that baptism imparts anything, why was I the only one that anything was imparted to?

Parents can dedicate their children to God, but I no longer believe that infant baptism is the way to do it.

I much prefer the baptism I received after I believed when it was my choice and my faith and I was old enough to remember it.

That baptism means much to me.

(Oh, BTW, I didn't have any sense of God's presence during my confirmation as I did when I got immersed-baptised.)

It is not just a symbol. It is a sign and seal. Nothing in Scripture describes baptism as a mere symbol.

Agreed!

(And so much better when you remember the experience and chose on your own to do so!)

I know this is largely an Arminian

If I recall correctly, i highly disagree with many treachings of what that group claims.

and in some cases Pelagian board of baptist Christians

,

I'm not a Baptist.

Pelagian? Never heard of it.

[st. Worm]

'Oh, BTW, I didn't have any sense of God's presence during my confirmation as I did when I got immersed-baptised.)'

Just curious, but how do you distinguish your own emotion from what you perceive to be God's presence? I'm sure whoever did your re-baptism made sure it was an emotional moment for you.

[Prodigalson123]

baptism is a physical public sign that you are a follower of Christ. It isn't necessary for salvation, but it is for obedience. Good works aren't possible for salvation. The whole idea of the "good works" we are supposed to do is out of gratitude to the Lord for the free gift of salvation, we are to show mercy and love to others. The parable of the unforgiving servant is a picture of that Matt 18:21-35

[Kabowd]

I think it's about time we have a pinned topic on baptism, considering the numerous topics devoted to debating whether it is necessary for salvation or not.