What did Jesus Teach about Tithing to Christians ?

[Floatingaxe]

God is in the curse-breaking business. His will is that we prosper in all ways. Why would you think that being able to have all our needs met with some left over is something we should not have? God favours His people. why do you suggest that extreme wealth is what God promises. He bestows that on some, those he especially trusts, but not all. We aren't to judge.

What I believe is what the word says---God is the God-of More-Than-Enough (one of His names), and He desires for us to have more than enough so that we can give it away.

Please provide scripture that instructs us to be in poverty and take support from others.

A) The curse is already broken, spiritually speaking. Jesus conquered the powers of darkness when He was raised from the dead. You do not seem to be able to seperate the physical from the spiritual. We are promised spirtual deliverance, not physical.

B) What your statement means is that you have no scriptural proof. If you had it, you would post it, and you would have posted it the first time I asked. I won't attempt to defend things I havn't said, and you are once again resorting to dishonest tactics to defend a doctrine that is indefensable. I never said we were to take support from others. I said that poor Christians exist. That alone negates your assertion that God doesn't want anyone poor. And you still did not answer the question: Does being poor mean that one is a bad Christian? I'll keep asking it until you answer it.

C) You are attempting to make something binding on every Christian that isn't. If you are going to attempt that, the burden of proof is upon you. It isn't up to me to provide proof that your doctrine isn't correct. We already know it isn't correct because there is no New Testament scripture that instructs us to tithe at all. That is why you won't post any. If you are going to say we have to tithe, you'd better be able to show us all scripture which says that, specifically, otherwise all you are doing is giving us your personal opinion, and that opinion is not backed up with anything from the Bible. If it were, you'd be able to give scripture that backed your assertions up.

There is a real problem when one has to spiritualize everything. We are promised deliverance physically and spiritually.

Yes, Christians can be poor, but that isn't God's doing. He says much all throughout scripture about His material blessing and abundant provision for His children.

There is no scripture that says we must cease to tithe. Jesus says it is a good thing and He added even another commandment for us to follow. So, first do the first thing, then add the second. I am not saying anyone HAS TO tithe as a matter of law-keeping. No way. Tithing is a spiritually discerned matter between the Lord and the believer.

So, why all the hoopla?

[Floatingaxe]

Salt is a cleansing, healing agent, too. As we are the salt and the light in this sick and dark world, we are the spiritual leaders in this world. That cannot be denied.

You are only salt and light if what you teach is correct. If what you teach is false, all you are doing is aiding the enemy.

Amen to that. I am glad to know that I do not purvey anything false.

[Floatingaxe]

There is a real problem when one has to spiritualize everything. We are promised deliverance physically and spiritually.

Yes, Christians can be poor, but that isn't God's doing. He says much all throughout scripture about His material blessing and abundant provision for His children.

There is no scripture that says we must cease to tithe. Jesus says it is a good thing and He added even another commandment for us to follow. So, first do the first thing, then add the second. I am not saying anyone HAS TO tithe as a matter of law-keeping. No way. Tithing is a spiritually discerned matter between the Lord and the believer.

So, why all the hoopla?

Once again, stop trying to attribute things to me that I have not stated. If you attempt to, I will call you on it. Every single time. I don't "spiritualize" everything. God does not promise to heal us, physically, from every malady. Nowhere in the Bible will you find that promise. It is a bogus concept furthered by overly-exuberant charismatics and snake oil salesmen.

Psalm 103:3

He forgives all my sins and heals all my diseases.

Matthew 4:24

The news about him spread through the whole country of Syria, so that people brought to him all those who were sick, suffering from all kinds of diseases and disorders: people with demons, and epileptics, and paralytics—and Jesus healed them all.

Luke 4:40

After sunset all who had friends who were sick with various diseases brought them to Jesus; he placed his hands on every one of them and healed them all.

Luke 5:15

But the news about Jesus spread all the more widely, and crowds of people came to hear him and be healed from their diseases.

Exodus 15:26

He said, If you will obey me completely by doing what I consider right and by keeping my commands, I will not punish you with any of the diseases that I brought on the Egyptians. I am the Lord, the one who heals you.

[Floatingaxe]

The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with:

Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

Some argue that Jesus words are not applicable to us today, because Jesus was under the Law and spoke to those under the Law.

Their theory goes something like this: Jesus was giving an instruction to the Jews so His words are not binding to us.

The problem with this interpretation is that these teachers are bringing Christ down to the level of a Jewish prophet or Teacher of the Law. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, so this means every word that comes out of His mouth is eternal. He cannot say anything without it being “spiritual law” and everlasting. Jesus emphasizes this point by saying, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matt 24:35). These supposed Bible teachers are making the words of Jesus pass away—obsolete and out of date. Besides, these same teachers pick and choose which teachings of Christ in the gospels they believe is applicable to us. I notice that even these teachers agree that most of Christ’ teachings are for us; however, because they are predisposed against tithing, they have had to come up with an excuse for not obeying the clear word of Christ in Mathew 23:23.

As a believer, you have to show who your Lord is! Is it the teachers who tell you tithing is not New Testament and who tell you that Jesus word on the subject is out of date; or is it Jesus who clearly told us not to neglect tithing? No modern teacher has the right to tell you to disobey Jesus instruction on tithing. Period!

Even if the only passages in the New Testament was Jesus word, then that would be sufficient, however, I want to present other New Testament passages on the subject.

Let’s look at Paul’s teaching on giving. Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in:

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is:

2 Corinthians 9:7:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute." The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. (Deuteronomy 12:5-6)

It is quite inconsistent for people to appeal to freewill offerings yet claim that tithing has been abolished. Both tithing and freewill offerings were incorporated in the Law as the above passage shows, but they preceded the Law, thus they both should be practiced. The burden of proof is placed on those who teach that tithing has been abolished. If so, where in the New Testament does it clearly say that tithing has been abolished?

One last thing, notice the resemblance of the language Paul uses in the first passage in Galatians and compare it with the Old Testament passage about tithing:

Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. (Galatians 6:6)

And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the LORD your God has given to you and your household. When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deuteronomy 26:11-12)

Galatians 6 is dealing with giving to the teacher of the gospel and he uses the same language about the Levites receiving the tithe of the people and he calls it "all good things." This is pretty good internal evidence that the early church tithed to the ministers of the gospel...

excerpted from

http://www.tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm

[taylor30]

Well if what you say is true, why stop at a tithe. Why not give 100%? Jesus DID ask a young man to sell EVERYTHING and then follow him. So, why don't we simply take our paychecks down to the local church and give God 100%. No doubt according to you God will miraculously fill the fridge and pay all the bills.

Everything we have is His. God is generous with us and allows us the remaining 90% to be good stewards of and decide what we will do with it. I know there are people who give God the 90% and live on the 10%. When we tithe, often it happens that we do add to it as God prospers us. It is all for His glory.

And what about poor countries all over Africa and Asia. I hope you are not suggesting they are poor because they don't tithe.

What about them? God is a personal Father. He sees to those who tithe that they have more than enough.

There are no doubt Christians in the world who give far more than a tithe and yet they don't are STILL in poverty.

If that is so, then a heart attitude change is in order. We don't tithe to get. We tithe to honour God.

It seems odd to me how you are so hung up on the church. According to you if I go give $100 to my neighbor soothe can not allow her family to starve, I am wrong. But if you drop that same $100 in the collection plate, then you are right. This makes no sense. That is suggesting that God is realistic and not much different than people who say God can only be worshipped church or that only their music is really Christian.

What do you mean, "hung up on the church"?

We are to bring our tithe o the storehouse---that is the local church where we receive our spiritual food. We are responsible to tithe and to provide for the poor. It's a great responsibility. When we tithe, often the ability to help others increases by the promise of God.

It may make no sense, but then again, God doesn't always make human sense, does He? He doesn't have to.

Do you really think every Christian who ever gave to a need they saw WITHOUT using the church was still wrong and sinful?

I have no idea what this means.

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

Poverty is just another bondage.

Now I am REALLY confused. You claim that poverty is bondage and therefore not of God. However in the Bible MANY people serenity in poverty and it was NOT because of sin. Remember Job's friends claimed he suffered for his wrongs, and you are making a similar claim that poor people are suffering for their wrongs. Jesus was poor and he is our example. You mentioned the storehouse. The problem is you CAN'T compare the OT storehouse to the modern church. You are surprisingly lacking on any scripture to support your claim. If you can't show scripture, then it is only your opinion and no one is bound by it. What I meant by my 2nd to last paragraph is that MANY people give where THEY see a need. They do their giving independent of the church. According to you, they are wrong since you claim giving is to the church.

Bottom line. Jesus never told anyone to give to the church and the apostles never told anyone to give to the church. In fact, scripture WARNS about those who seek wealth and tells us to be content with what we have. You can keep saying it if you want, but your argument is not scriptural. Please show me scripture otherwise if you think I am wrong.

[Guest]

Is a person a bad Christian if they are poor?

This question keeps not being answered. Its a good one.

Jesus was technically homeless, but no one would say He was out of God's will.

Believers have been persecuted for over 2000 years, and many more suffer poverty from it. Are they "bad" Christians? Out of the will of God?

Chinese believers know about arrests, prisons, beatings, and torture -- yet their house churches flourish! But many of the Chinese believers are poor or have everything they own seized by the government. Are they "cursed" or out of God's will?

God works on an eternal scale that we cannot see. Sometimes being broke is part of living in a fallen world where bad things happen to everyone. Sometimes there is no explanation on this side of eternity.

[~candice~]

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

Poverty is just another bondage.

Are you for real? Honestly? Did Jesus die to break the bondage of poverty?

[Floatingaxe]

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

Poverty is just another bondage.

Are you for real? Honestly? Did Jesus die to break the bondage of poverty?

Yes, He sure did. That's for real. Honestly. Do you deny that?

[Floatingaxe]

Well if what you say is true, why stop at a tithe. Why not give 100%? Jesus DID ask a young man to sell EVERYTHING and then follow him. So, why don't we simply take our paychecks down to the local church and give God 100%. No doubt according to you God will miraculously fill the fridge and pay all the bills.

Everything we have is His. God is generous with us and allows us the remaining 90% to be good stewards of and decide what we will do with it. I know there are people who give God the 90% and live on the 10%. When we tithe, often it happens that we do add to it as God prospers us. It is all for His glory.

And what about poor countries all over Africa and Asia. I hope you are not suggesting they are poor because they don't tithe.

What about them? God is a personal Father. He sees to those who tithe that they have more than enough.

There are no doubt Christians in the world who give far more than a tithe and yet they don't are STILL in poverty.

If that is so, then a heart attitude change is in order. We don't tithe to get. We tithe to honour God.

It seems odd to me how you are so hung up on the church. According to you if I go give $100 to my neighbor soothe can not allow her family to starve, I am wrong. But if you drop that same $100 in the collection plate, then you are right. This makes no sense. That is suggesting that God is realistic and not much different than people who say God can only be worshipped church or that only their music is really Christian.

What do you mean, "hung up on the church"?

We are to bring our tithe o the storehouse---that is the local church where we receive our spiritual food. We are responsible to tithe and to provide for the poor. It's a great responsibility. When we tithe, often the ability to help others increases by the promise of God.

It may make no sense, but then again, God doesn't always make human sense, does He? He doesn't have to.

Do you really think every Christian who ever gave to a need they saw WITHOUT using the church was still wrong and sinful?

I have no idea what this means.

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

Poverty is just another bondage.

Now I am REALLY confused. You claim that poverty is bondage and therefore not of God. However in the Bible MANY people serenity in poverty and it was NOT because of sin. Remember Job's friends claimed he suffered for his wrongs, and you are making a similar claim that poor people are suffering for their wrongs. Jesus was poor and he is our example. You mentioned the storehouse. The problem is you CAN'T compare the OT storehouse to the modern church. You are surprisingly lacking on any scripture to support your claim. If you can't show scripture, then it is only your opinion and no one is bound by it. What I meant by my 2nd to last paragraph is that MANY people give where THEY see a need. They do their giving independent of the church. According to you, they are wrong since you claim giving is to the church.

Bottom line. Jesus never told anyone to give to the church and the apostles never told anyone to give to the church. In fact, scripture WARNS about those who seek wealth and tells us to be content with what we have. You can keep saying it if you want, but your argument is not scriptural. Please show me scripture otherwise if you think I am wrong.

Have you ever heard about rebuking the enemy?

You misconstrue what I am saying. The Christians in the early churches established giving to the needs of the churches with generosity. They lived it and set the example.

Yes, the scriptures warn about those who love wealth for wealth's sake, but God commends and blesses those who seek Him first and whose hearts are to give to Him and His work and to the needs of others. He increases the ability of great givers with more because He trusts them to honour Him with it, and not spend it on worldly pleasures.

I see no scripture in your denials, whereas I have provided scripture.

The greatest wealth we have is the spiritual wealth we have in Christ to draw on and to impart to the world around us.

[~candice~]

By the way, I did NOT suggest poverty is a sin as Cobalt correctly stated to you. I was being slightly sarcastic based on your suggestion that she might be poor because she wasn't a Christian who tithe to a church.

Poverty is just another bondage.

Are you for real? Honestly? Did Jesus die to break the bondage of poverty?

Yes, He sure did. That's for real. Honestly. Do you deny that?

Scripture

All those faithful in Africa and Asia.

Did Paul learned to be content whether he was in need or not?