jamie Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 Although I consider myself to be a conservative I have to agree with most of this article.... AS USUAL, CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS DON'T GET IT By Pastor Chuck Baldwin January 9, 2006 NewsWithViews.com With confirmation hearings underway for Judge Samuel Alito, many conservative Christians are focusing on the abortion issue. In fact, many pro-life activists are hailing Alito as the man who would overturn legalized abortion in America. However, as is usually the case, most conservative Christians cannot see beyond the abortion debate to look at the bigger picture. Then again, myopia seems to be a permanent disorder affecting a majority of conservative Christians today, so why should things suddenly change now? For the record, Judge Alito probably finds abortion personally repugnant. It is certainly safe to say that Alito's opinions on abortion seem to reflect greater respect for life than anything we saw from Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. However, that reality alone will not make much difference. There is a greater reality at work here that most conservative Christians deliberately choose to ignore: the Republican Party has no intentions of ending legalized abortion! Absolutely none! To the vast majority of Republicans in Washington, D.C., the abortion issue is merely a ready-made sugar-stick to hand out to conservative Christians every election cycle in order to keep them corralled in the GOP vote column. As long as a Republican candidate can claim to be "pro-life," he or she can count on receiving sizeable support from conservative Christians. That simple statement, whether genuine or not, whether followed with any substantive action or not, guarantees that most Christian televangelists will spend countless hours pleading with their supporters to vote "pro-life" by supporting the GOP ticket. It doesn't matter that so-called "pro-life" Republican candidates have had over 30 years to overturn Roe and are no closer now to doing so than they were when Roe was first decided. It doesn't matter that not a single "pro-life" Republican congressman has introduced legislation under Article III, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution to remove Roe from the jurisdiction of the Court, which is the prerogative of Congress to do. It doesn't matter that after spending multiplied millions of dollars and electing hundreds of "pro-life" Republicans, nothing has been done to overturn Roe. It doesn't matter that the Republican Party has controlled the White House for over 17 of the last 25 years and, accordingly, has controlled appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court for all of those years (not to mention the fact that it was a majority Republican- appointed Court that passed the Roe decision), and nothing has been done to overturn Roe. All that matters is that Republicans talk "pro-life" during the election cycle. How can any sensible person believe that the Republican Party truly intends to overturn the Roe v Wade Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion on demand? It's beyond laughable: it's hysterical! Even if Judge Alito would vote to overturn Roe should the opportunity present itself, it is almost certain that Chief Justice John Roberts would not vote to overturn it. Therefore, the vote to overturn Roe is 6-3 against-at best! In other words, we are not even close to reversing Roe v Wade. Not even close! However, none of this matters to most conservative Christians. After all, they can beat their chests, hobnob with Republican big- shots, raise millions of dollars from gullible Christians, and pretend to be "pro-life" every two years from now until the cows come home without worrying about anything of substance actually being done. What a racket! Yet, the situation is actually worse than that. Worse than most Christians' gullibility regarding the abortion issue is the manner in which they give Republicans a pass on other issues of immense importance. It seems that all a Republican has to do to gain the confidence and support of the vast majority of conservative Christians is say he is "pro-life" and opposed to homosexual marriage. His or her position on virtually everything else doesn't seem to matter. It doesn't seem to matter to most conservative Christians that President Bush has increased deficit spending beyond that of all previous administrations put together. Yes, you read it right: President Bush (with the aid of his fellow Republicans in Congress) is a bigger debtor than all 42 of his predecessors combined! According to the McAlvany Intelligence Advisor, Dec. 2005, "According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion." But that doesn't matter to a hill of beans to most conservative Christians. Bush is "pro-life." It doesn't matter to the vast majority of conservative Christians that President Bush is attempting to accrue power to the executive branch at the expense of constitutional government, that he is championing extremely questionable, if not downright dangerous, legislation that could result in the dismantlement of civil and individual liberties. It doesn't matter that Bush is involved in the most intense nation-building scheme in post World War II history. It doesn't matter that he has done more to open the door of illegal immigration than any president in modern memory. It doesn't matter that he spearheaded (and continues to laud) the most expensive and most intrusive expansion of the federal government's role in public education in U.S. history. It doesn't matter that Bush continues to promote ill-conceived trade deals such as CAFTA and FTAA which weaken American independence and sacrifice thousands of American jobs. Because President Bush claims to be "pro-life," conservative Christians give him a pass on virtually any and all other conduct. Therefore, even if (a big if) Judge Alito would join Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas as being willing to overturn Roe, the votes are still not there to actually do so. Furthermore, President Bush could get at least one, and maybe two, additional Supreme Court appointments. Two of the Court's current justices are aged and in ill health. In other words, by the time Bush leaves office, he could get as many as four appointments to the High Court. However, instead of overturning Roe v Wade, it is much more likely that the Supreme Court will further advance the imperialistic philosophy of the Bush administration resulting in an ongoing and rapid demise of individual liberties for American citizens. In other words, legalized abortion will still be intact but constitutional liberties won't be, Bush's appointments to the High Court notwithstanding. And, unfortunately, when it happens, conservative Christians still won't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windie Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hi Jamie, I would like to state one of my favorite authors and brother in Christ, Dr. Francis Schaeffer. We are called not to be Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal and any other title this world may give. We are called to be Christians. We don't realize we are fighting something greater which is a humanistic worldview. That worldview can be under the title "liberal" and also "conservative". There are many Republicans that are conservative but largely humanistic. Humanism is the belief that man is the measure of all things. Man is the center. There is no God to answer and give account. Are we then to shutup and be silent? No, we are to uplift Christ and challenge this humanistic view with the Christian worldview. We are to show the world that the God we serve is alive and correct the misrepresentation of Him. I applaud Christians who have the call to enter into the political arena. However, I believe we must take caution with whom we align ourselves and what label we allow ourselves to be assigned. In Christ, Wendy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hi Jamie, I would like to state one of my favorite authors and brother in Christ, Dr. Francis Schaeffer. We are called not to be Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal and any other title this world may give. We are called to be Christians. We don't realize we are fighting something greater which is a humanistic worldview. That worldview can be under the title "liberal" and also "conservative". There are many Republicans that are conservative but largely humanistic. Humanism is the belief that man is the measure of all things. Man is the center. There is no God to answer and give account. Are we then to shutup and be silent? No, we are to uplift Christ and challenge this humanistic view with the Christian worldview. We are to show the world that the God we serve is alive and correct the misrepresentation of Him. I applaud Christians who have the call to enter into the political arena. However, I believe we must take caution with whom we align ourselves and what label we allow ourselves to be assigned. In Christ, Wendy Good point. As a side note....the Supreme Court is neither republican or democrat....so this article is really lacking in intelligence. Doesn't matter what republicans want, if the SC overturns Roe v Wade, no one can stop what will happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Although I no longer stand behind republicans or democrats at election time, I still see that most christians vote republican strictly because of the abortion issue. This would be well and good if the party actually delivered anything to merrit this....thats where I can agree with the article. I don't think the republican party even offers very much lip service concerning abortion anymore. They aren't going to commit political suicide. No one in washington stands on principle very long these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 The thing is, this can be proven wrong on so many levels. Look at all the states that don't allow 3rd term abortions. Now look at the parties that introduced and passed this legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windie Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Although I no longer stand behind republicans or democrats at election time, I still see that most christians vote republican strictly because of the abortion issue. This would be well and good if the party actually delivered anything to merrit this....thats where I can agree with the article. I don't think the republican party even offers very much lip service concerning abortion anymore. They aren't going to commit political suicide. No one in washington stands on principle very long these days. Hi Jamie, We also must remember that we are told to pray and to intercede for our nation. Abortion can be overturned. Anything is possible. However, we also see the blatant disregard for human life these days. But we are to pray that those that are in the kingdom of darkness will be transferred into the kingdom of light! Are we willing to suffer persecution in this country to openblind eyes! Whether we are willing or not, it is here and will become more intense. But we must stand and fight until he comes to bring us home! There must always be a true representation of our Christ on this earth. windie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadman1204 Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 The thing is, this can be proven wrong on so many levels. Look at all the states that don't allow 3rd term abortions. Now look at the parties that introduced and passed this legislation. again hollow efforts because it doesnt really do anything. Even most abortion proponents are against 3rd term abortions. That can almost be legally classified as murder (with no legal wrangling) since babies can survive unaided from the womb at that age. Its just like a state passing prep laws for roe vs wade going away. All it does is make thier constiuents love them when they are accomplishing nothing. State politics are vastly different than nation. States have a smaller group of people to worry about, so more often polorize themselves more. The article does raise questions as to why NO congressman has introduced an anti-abortion law, even if he didnt think it would pass. No congressman has introduced any laws attempting to garuntee Christian civil rights in the public and civil arena. Not even tried. I could name a thousand other ways that all "chrsitian" politicans never try to act very christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 Although I no longer stand behind republicans or democrats at election time, I still see that most christians vote republican strictly because of the abortion issue. This would be well and good if the party actually delivered anything to merrit this....thats where I can agree with the article. I don't think the republican party even offers very much lip service concerning abortion anymore. They aren't going to commit political suicide. No one in washington stands on principle very long these days. Hi Jamie, We also must remember that we are told to pray and to intercede for our nation. Abortion can be overturned. Anything is possible. However, we also see the blatant disregard for human life these days. But we are to pray that those that are in the kingdom of darkness will be transferred into the kingdom of light! Are we willing to suffer persecution in this country to openblind eyes! Whether we are willing or not, it is here and will become more intense. But we must stand and fight until he comes to bring us home! There must always be a true representation of our Christ on this earth. windie If Kings and Chronicles has taught us anything, it is that a nation generally gets the leadership it deserves. I have to agree that Christians are obsessed with the abortion issue to the point where that obession has blinded them to other important issues. In my heart and soul, I am a libertarian, yet always vote Republican for the simple reason of values; theirs generally are closer to mine--fiscally and ethically. But I dont look to any party to usher in the kingdom..just hopefully keep my taxes low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Even most abortion proponents are against 3rd term abortions. Since when? Pro-abortionists were howling something fierce when partial-birth abortion was banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2006 again hollow efforts because it doesnt really do anything. Says someone not qualified to speak on the matter. I live in the third term abortion capital of the world (that's not just a made up title, my state performs the most third term abortions in the world). People flock here to get abortions done, and anytime we try to outlaw it, there is such a cry and protest that it never gets passed. Outlawing 3rd term abortions is a huge deal, not just something that doesn't do anything. Christians have become nothing more than chicken littles and cry babies when they moan and complain about the system and don't do a darn thing to change it or be happy over the change we do have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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