Ovedya Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Ovedya, my congratulations on an exceedingly eloquent and intelligent posting. Very well put together indeed, and indeed amen. Heavn and hell is not what God is about: It is not what the Christian life is about. Now that may seem shocking or even heretical to some, but if getting to heaven is all that Chrsitians are seeking, then I'm afraid they are only scratching the surface of what the Christian life is all about. In particular this trikes a chord with me. When I threw myself on Gods mercy for salvation, I actually had no thought of "escaping hell" or indeed "earning a heavenly place" All that was on my mind was how depraved I was, how Godless I was and how without hope I was and that if I was to be anything but vile, then I needed my saviours blood, his love and his command. Simply put, I knew how useless I was and asked God to rule over and make something far better of me. Amen, brother! Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 24, 2006 NewPilgrim, I have so stated within my post to you already that I have the assurance of my salvation by faith and I do not care of your belief about you in where you would go. If it is all under the blood as the gospel you have presented to me and are or have been defending is so thus and you have been fully persuade of then stop being evasive and answer with a yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or No Openly Curious If you are a blood washed, spirit regenerated believer in teh Lord Jesus Christ, then the answer is no. You would sleep, and then you would inherit the kingdom of the God at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Oops! have I opened another can of worms? ) Inasmuch as you understand the question, the answer is yes. Clear as mud? Good. You still didn't answer my questionabout Samson directly with a yes or no of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2006 Ovedya, my congratulations on an exceedingly eloquent and intelligent posting. Very well put together indeed, and indeed amen. Heavn and hell is not what God is about: It is not what the Christian life is about. Now that may seem shocking or even heretical to some, but if getting to heaven is all that Chrsitians are seeking, then I'm afraid they are only scratching the surface of what the Christian life is all about. In particular this trikes a chord with me. When I threw myself on Gods mercy for salvation, I actually had no thought of "escaping hell" or indeed "earning a heavenly place" All that was on my mind was how depraved I was, how Godless I was and how without hope I was and that if I was to be anything but vile, then I needed my saviours blood, his love and his command. Simply put, I knew how useless I was and asked God to rule over and make something far better of me. NewPilgrim I am not seeking the things of what God is about for I have my own opinions as you know. That is being evasive yet once again. I'm asking directly in your secured beliefs. If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or No Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 24, 2006 That's what irks me, OC. You are saying that the man I presented hypothetically would go to Hell. It doesn't matter that he didn't have time to even get over the shock of the news. The point is he had unforgiveness in his heart, therefore off to Hell with you! Or take another case. A 13 year old girl gives her life to Christ. She has a noticeable change, even so much that her friends notice. She prays and reads the Bible every day. She's attending church and participating in the youth group. 2 months later, some sick man kidnaps her, rapes her, and then kills her. By your theology, if she has not managed to forgive her attacker by then, the Lord will tell her, "I don't care that you were traumatized, I don't care that you were in pain, I don't care that you were scared out of your witts. All I care is that before your heart stopped beating you did not obey my command to forgive. Depart from Me, I never knew you!" If that is your theology, then I want no part of it!!!!!!!! PHARISEE! And I agree with what Ovedya said - I am not Heaven's gatekeeper. I cannot say if you killed yourself right now if you would go to Heaven or Hell. I leave that decision to God's hands. I only know that the Lord gave me a vision that I would not have lost my salvation, but I wouldn't be greeted with, "Well done." Now, either this was a true vision of what would happen. Or the Lord was lying to me. Or it was a deception of Satan - forget the fact that it kept me from killing myself and drew me closer to the Lord. (As I mentioned before.) I had a friend who shared how he had given his life to the Lord and was pursuing God, yet somewhere along the way he decided to turn his back on God and lived that way for years. He shared that he knew in his heart during that time that if he died he would have gone to Hell. Yet it was still a long time before he finally re-comitted his life to Christ and had a complete change-around. So my point in all of this, the reason I came into this debate, was my firm beleif that if you know a Christian who is struggling with suicide, telling him or her that, "If you kill yourself, you are going to Hell," is not the way to save the person. It would not have helped me, I know that for sure! Suicide is a selfish act, and you want to save them by keeping their focus on themselves? Bad counsel! And then what hope do you leave the person with? Bad counsel! I can't tell you if you would go to Heaven or Hell. I can only say with certainty that even if you do go to Heaven, you will be horribly, horribly regretting your decision and will still spend the rest of eternity living with the consequences of that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Ovedya, my congratulations on an exceedingly eloquent and intelligent posting. Very well put together indeed, and indeed amen. Heavn and hell is not what God is about: It is not what the Christian life is about. Now that may seem shocking or even heretical to some, but if getting to heaven is all that Chrsitians are seeking, then I'm afraid they are only scratching the surface of what the Christian life is all about. In particular this strikes a chord with me. When I threw myself on Gods mercy for salvation, I actually had no thought of "escaping hell" or indeed "earning a heavenly place" All that was on my mind was how depraved I was, how Godless I was and how without hope I was and that if I was to be anything but vile, then I needed my saviours blood, his love and his command. Simply put, I knew how useless I was and asked God to rule over and make something far better of me. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Amen, Neb.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2006 NewPilgrim, I have so stated within my post to you already that I have the assurance of my salvation by faith and I do not care of your belief about you in where you would go. If it is all under the blood as the gospel you have presented to me and are or have been defending is so thus and you have been fully persuade of then stop being evasive and answer with a yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or No Openly Curious If you are a blood washed, spirit regenerated believer in teh Lord Jesus Christ, then the answer is no. You would sleep, and then you would inherit the kingdom of the God at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Oops! have I opened another can of worms? ) Inasmuch as you understand the question, the answer is yes. Ovedya I appreciate your humor but I am not asking about the ressurection of the dead nor do I want to get into that can of worms. Inasmuch as you understand my question in your beliefs a simple yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or no Openly Curious Clear as mud? Good. You still didn't answer my questionabout Samson directly with a yes or no of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 24, 2006 NewPilgrim I am not seeking the things of what God is about Did I hear this right? You don't care what God is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 24, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 24, 2006 NewPilgrim, I have so stated within my post to you already that I have the assurance of my salvation by faith and I do not care of your belief about you in where you would go. If it is all under the blood as the gospel you have presented to me and are or have been defending is so thus and you have been fully persuade of then stop being evasive and answer with a yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or No Openly Curious If you are a blood washed, spirit regenerated believer in teh Lord Jesus Christ, then the answer is no. You would sleep, and then you would inherit the kingdom of the God at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Oops! have I opened another can of worms? ) Inasmuch as you understand the question, the answer is yes. Ovedya I appreciate your humor but I am not asking about the ressurection of the dead nor do I want to get into that can of worms. Inasmuch as you understand my question in your beliefs a simple yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or no Openly Curious Clear as mud? Good. You still didn't answer my questionabout Samson directly with a yes or no of your own. Now you may understand just a bit of some of the frustrations in this thread with your answers. What about Samson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 NewPilgrim, I have so stated within my post to you already that I have the assurance of my salvation by faith and I do not care of your belief about you in where you would go. If it is all under the blood as the gospel you have presented to me and are or have been defending is so thus and you have been fully persuade of then stop being evasive and answer with a yes or no If I was to commit suicide tonight Would I go to Heaven? Yes or No You're clueless arent you? I can't state it any clearer, you can protest to me that you have salvation till the cows come home, but I dont know that anymore than I know if my unborn children will have salvation. Its not my job to judge your salvation state, in fact we're warned against it. I've made my position quite clear that if someone is born again and their life ends in suicide they are no more condemned than the day they were born again, their place in heaven is assured. I've given you plenty of scripture to support such a view and I've repeated it several times so that you can't really miss it. We all will be judged according to our sins and our good works and it will be a terrible day to experience, but we have Gods assurance that it will end in celebration and not condemnation for those of us who have been bought by the blood of Christ and promised to him by the earnest of the Holy Spirit. (of which I'm proud and joyous to claim I am one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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