JimR-OCDS Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 429 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2006 What about the man in Afganistan who may be facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity? What about the Inquisition? Groups within every major religion has done dirt. Some Christians have been guilty of crimes as terrible as any Muslim's worst. Crimes of this sort can be used to make generalizations about all or most adherents to those faiths or to discredit any religion. But are sweeping generalizations and the prejudices formed as their result really that useful or helpful? The crimes are to be condemned--not the criminals' religious affiliations. The only difference between the Inquisition and Islam's "Fatwa" is that, at some point Christians decided that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God. Islam has never come to that realization. It's propagation has always depended entirely upon conquest. It becomes a real issue when the the crime and the religious affiliation become inextricably intertwined. The Church didn't slaughter anyone during the Spanish Inquisition, they didn't have the authority to put anyone to death. They would make the accusation and inquisition, then hand the person over to the King and Queen for punishment, which for the most part meant, deportation. The Inquisition actually began as a result of Jews and Muslims, receiving the sacraments of the Church, despite never having been Baptised. Many faked their baptisms for economic and social status. Hence, the Inquisition sought to remove abuses that were going on as a result. However, individuals got carried away and abused their authority. No one knows the exact number of people who died during the Inquisition, but historians agree that the number was about 2200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 22, 2006 What about the man in Afganistan who may be facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity? What about the Inquisition? Groups within every major religion has done dirt. Some Christians have been guilty of crimes as terrible as any Muslim's worst. Crimes of this sort can be used to make generalizations about all or most adherents to those faiths or to discredit any religion. But are sweeping generalizations and the prejudices formed as their result really that useful or helpful? The crimes are to be condemned--not the criminals' religious affiliations. The only difference between the Inquisition and Islam's "Fatwa" is that, at some point Christians decided that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God. Islam has never come to that realization. It's propagation has always depended entirely upon conquest. It becomes a real issue when the the crime and the religious affiliation become inextricably intertwined. The Church didn't slaughter anyone during the Spanish Inquisition, they didn't have the authority to put anyone to death. They would make the accusation and inquisition, then hand the person over to the King and Queen for punishment, which for the most part meant, deportation. The Inquisition actually began as a result of Jews and Muslims, receiving the sacraments of the Church, despite never having been Baptised. Many faked their baptisms for economic and social status. Hence, the Inquisition sought to remove abuses that were going on as a result. However, individuals got carried away and abused their authority. No one knows the exact number of people who died during the Inquisition, but historians agree that the number was about 2200. I know that "The Church" disavows it, but the facts remain that the Spanish Inquisition was carried out directly by soldiers of "The Church." That's neither here nor there. The blood of innocents is on the hands of all those involved with their killing. The Inquisition as a whole should b counted in history among all those who ruthlessly slaughtered thousands in the name of ignorant religious idealogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2006 The only difference between the Inquisition and Islam's "Fatwa" is that, at some point Christians decided that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God. Islam has never come to that realization. It's propagation has always depended entirely upon conquest. It becomes a real issue when the the crime and the religious affiliation become inextricably intertwined. Christians deciding that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God probably didn't come about as a result of people in other religons and cultures pointing their fingers at them and condemning their religion as violent and hateful. (I don't really know; this is just a guess.) My point: Making generalizations, reinforcing prejudices, and accusing religions won't help the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The only difference between the Inquisition and Islam's "Fatwa" is that, at some point Christians decided that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God. Islam has never come to that realization. It's propagation has always depended entirely upon conquest. It becomes a real issue when the the crime and the religious affiliation become inextricably intertwined. Christians deciding that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God probably didn't come about as a result of people in other religons and cultures pointing their fingers at them and condemning their religion as violent and hateful. (I don't really know; this is just a guess.) My point: Making generalizations, reinforcing prejudices, and accusing religions won't help the situation. Right. But I would be willing to bet that some on the inside decided that it was a bad thing because of something they heard or saw on the outside. So change has to come from both within and without. In my opinion this will never happen in Islam without a huge split, and with big portions of the Koran being dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,796 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2006 An important distinction between muslims and christians. Christ never taught us to kill those who are not Christians. So anything done like the Spanish Inquisition was against the Lords wishes. Mohammed taught to kill those who were not muslim, which is in accordance with the words of the quran. And even the moderate muslims hate Jews. Even a moderate smoking drinking using drugs muslim that I know well and who obeys no part of the teachings of islam still wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2006 Right. But I would be willing to bet that some on the inside decided that it was a bad thing because of something they heard or saw on the outside. So change has to come from both within and without. In my opinion this will never happen in Islam without a huge split, and with big portions of the Koran being dismantled. I think we can agree to let the Muslims decide that. All we can do is defend ourselves and hold criminals accountable for their actions. I don't think accusing Islam of violence and hate works to further either of those aims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abigailwc Posted March 22, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/08/1964 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Ephesians 6:12 - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Mark 13:13 And you will be hated by all for My name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Right. But I would be willing to bet that some on the inside decided that it was a bad thing because of something they heard or saw on the outside. So change has to come from both within and without. In my opinion this will never happen in Islam without a huge split, and with big portions of the Koran being dismantled. I think we can agree to let the Muslims decide that. All we can do is defend ourselves and hold criminals accountable for their actions. I don't think accusing Islam of violence and hate works to further either of those aims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted March 23, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 429 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 23, 2006 What about the man in Afganistan who may be facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity? What about the Inquisition? Groups within every major religion has done dirt. Some Christians have been guilty of crimes as terrible as any Muslim's worst. Crimes of this sort can be used to make generalizations about all or most adherents to those faiths or to discredit any religion. But are sweeping generalizations and the prejudices formed as their result really that useful or helpful? The crimes are to be condemned--not the criminals' religious affiliations. The only difference between the Inquisition and Islam's "Fatwa" is that, at some point Christians decided that it was probably a bad thing to brutally slaughter innocents in the name of God. Islam has never come to that realization. It's propagation has always depended entirely upon conquest. It becomes a real issue when the the crime and the religious affiliation become inextricably intertwined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted March 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hence what I wrote about Christians coming to the realization that killing innocents in the name of God being a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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