crab3 Posted May 31, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/15/1982 Share Posted May 31, 2006 AMEN, this person came seeking the knowledge and i believe he found what he was looking for. i think we could leave it at that........ food for thought, i asked my father in law, who's father is also a mason, and a lot of the older father figures in his life also (like me), why he had never considered joining. he told me that you can get the same from a good church. when someone asks me what the masons are or what they are about, i tell them a story. me, my brother and my dad once were somewhat far from home, in the winnebego going to go camping, my dad is a mason. we break down in the middle of no where, dad leaves me with my brother, goes to get parts, (car was with us, jsut passed parts store) comes back, can't get it going. we were there all day, night came, and someone came down the lane. i watched my dad talk to this man, 5 min later, they were shaking hands, 20 min later the guy was back with tow lines, we were in his truck, towing our camper to his house, we left it there for the night, took our car home, dad got more parts, we went back the next day and the guy helped him fix the camper. and thats the masons Jesus or no Jesus they are good guys, we need good guys around, need Jesus to get to heaven, no exceptions, they don't teach Jesus, but they are good people.....bottom line i think. crabs ><> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeemed098 Posted May 31, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 489 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1964 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) Ben - with all due respect (IF I OWE U ANY) -- I am glad YOU are NOT GOD, just because you say so, does NOT mean GOD SAID IT!!! Does God speak to you audibly? I wish you and others like you would get off your HIGH HORSE. You are way off base with the very nature of God when you criticize an organization you know NOTHING about first hand. Its obvious you have never been involved in the organization, and HOW CAN YOU LOOK inside a person's heart. Work out your own salvation and please stop JUDGING others and what they believe. I've never known the Mason's to be teaching RELIGION. Many Masons and Shriners are active participants in wonderful fundamental churches. Please pull your head out and take a stand on more worthy issues. God is light and in him is no darkness, and my friend, GOD is NO RESPECTOR of PERSONS. Like it or not, you don't win souls by such harsh judgements. God didn't give any of us the authority. We do not see inside the hearts of others nor do we know how THEY walk with GOD. You certainly do not know me or my heart. I don't need your approval on my opinions, I have a right to them. We live in a country that allows freedom of speech, and I see you exercise yours well., but please be careful of 'slandering others' while taking a stand on your THEORIES. Blessings Sunshine Sunshine, You cannot change the contents inside the jar simply by changing the label on the outside.... When you suggest that I'm taking a stand on "My Theories", I would like you to think very carefully about that....You see...I HAVE no theories.... I have the Word of God....I didn't THINK it or WRITE it.....My belief OR Unbelief doesn't have the power OR the authority to nullify or change a single word of it. You see It has already been written...As i said before....Jesus has made many claims in this book and they are either Truth or they are NOT.....You can debate, agree, disagree, believe NOT believe, you can take whatever stand you like.....But you can never ever say that the bible does NOT say these things.... You can never ever say that this is Mine or anyone elses Opinion.....Opinion is equal to Less than KNOWING Sunshine...Opinion is ValueLESS when it comes to Truth. Opinion cannot save you...It cannot save ME either.....It is not my OPINION that the Bible is the Word of God.....It simply IS or it ISNT. Jesus said that "Unless a man repents he shall perish." He said that man must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of God." YOUR opinion on that is irrelevant....Your response to what Jesus has said and done WILL determine where you spend eternity.....ALL opinion aside....All theories aside....You will believe God or you will NOT....But you are not free from the consequence of making the wrong decision. Regards, Ben. Edited May 31, 2006 by redeemed098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine & Smiles Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 -next weekend. My grandfather! He's been a Mason for 50 years, thus the party. I rarely say no to family, but this might be a case where I should... And he's a devoted Christian. This is so strange. Masons- are wrong, right? The 32nd level is very bad news from what I've heard... Thanks for any responses- they teach Biblical values.... they do not teach BIBLE.... being that it is not a religious organization, there is no boundries as far as what "religion" a person is... a Jew, or Christian, it does not matter, Red and Yellow, Black and White neither does it matter... this is a brotherhood that is set for a common goal. They recognize that there is only ONE TRUE GOD... they do not teach Christianity... they live the law of LOVE... there are teachings from the Old Testiment time, and a person can learn more about that era if they choose, ( with or with out the lodge ) there was a case where a man was captured, during the American Civil war, as a spy, and was to be shot (executed) when another person recognized a sign given by the person, and piped up and told them that this person was not who they thought that he was... so they placed him back in the stockade to investigate further, and the next day this man was not to be found. a good many of the founding fathers of the United States were masons. the Constitution was written by masons, the declaration of independance was penned by mason(s) the night of the Boston Tea party, there was suppose to be a lodge meeting... there were not enough members present to open the lodge for buisness, and for some strange reason, a ship was over-run and emptied of its cargo... the Masonic Lodge is not a secret organization, they are an organization with secrets ( as do many other organizations, to include each and every persons own house hold. the confidentiallity rule applies with each mason for each brother mason. Demoley was a man that held his tongue, even unto death, not to give up his friends... too many people these days have tossed away morals, whether they are taught from the Bible or from a clubs teachings... this would infact include many people that attend church "religiously" every week, but have no morals, they cheat, lie, steal from their brother Christians, they gossip, squander, and tip their noses up so high, that when it rains, they are in danger of drowning. I have never been cheated by a mason, whether 1st degree, 3rd degree, or even 32nd degree. I have been treated most fairly by each and every one that i have met... I can not say that about even most of those proclaiming to be Christians... before a person condemns a club a person is in, or the good that club does, one better look at ones own clubs, organizations, and even their own back yard...... the Masonic Lodge is not a Christian Organization (never claimed to be a Christians organization, nor do they a religious organization), but then neither is the Rotory club, the Lions Club, the Elks club or the IOOF........ a person can even join a chess club, spanish club, french club, german club, folk dance club, square dance club, they also are not Christian organization... the FCA claims to be a Christian organization, I do not know, for i have not attended their meetings.... or all these clubs CULTS as some say????? if a child is burned, they have a place to go for repair and rehab AT NO COST. if a child is crippled, again, they have a place to go for such things AT NO COST. the Shriners Hospitals are FREE for those that need it. no matter what race, creed, religion, faith, colour, or financial background. if you have one close by, go visit it, and get a tour of it. seriously, do it... you might be just a tad bit amazed at how much LOVE there is there. a mason can travel through out this world, and no matter where he travels, he will always have friends... as far as teachings that all a person has to do is be good to get to heaven, that is not what they teach. personally, i would recommend not studying any others religious beliefs, but dig deeper into the Bible. My uncle, died a mormon... would not consider Christianity (the treatment received from mormons was better then Christians), did that keep me from attending the funeral? NO!, not cause there was anything there, for he was gone, but my dad ( his brother) was there, and i was there for him. not my uncle, but for my dad and my mom and my aunt... If I were you, and i had the opportunity to see my dad, uncle, grandfather, or anyone else receive an achievement such as this, i would go. not because i believe in what they did, but because i love them. this can give you a good opportunity, an open door, if you may, to witness Christ, and how He is the Truth. The Way to Life Everlasting... I am not defending the Masons, but I neither condemn them for what they are doing.. I am not saying you need to join either, not in the least, it might be best if you didnt join them. there are Born again Christians, in the Mormon church also, they are there to witness Christ, there are born again Christians in the Masonic Lodge as well, again to bearwitness to Christ... we do need our morals, but we also need our authority........ JESUS, THE CHRIST. no matter what club a person belongs to, they have the choice to make it their religion, or they can take Christianity into the club and wittness Christ. even eating can become a persons religion, the same with sleeping, or working or even playing video games or spending time on the internet... contrary to popular belief, this site is not CHURCH... we are not gathering together here, we are posting words... our of anger, bitterness, hatred, gossips, and better then thou attitudes. very seldom are many being uplifted. this is one of those threads, i would like to see disappear. when people are saying there is no respect due a person, or incinuationg such with all due respect (IF I OWE U ANY), when a person is judging anothers salvation... come now, this is becoming a battleground of brother against brother.... we are suppose to be joining hands and charging the common enemy, not our brothers... Like I said before, i have never been cheated by a mason, nor have i received anything but love from a mason... should we (Christians) not follow suite??? and be more loving??? like in the kids song..... and they will know we are Christians by our hate??? NO !!!!! THEY WILL KNOW WE ARE CHRISTIANS BY OUR LOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Christians, could take a lesson or two from the Masons, and even the Mormons... (I should say the Bible) mike I agree wholeheartedly with ALL you have said here, Mike. Thank you. I wish I could have put these things so versed. I will be apologizing personally to Ben for my comment, however, I did feel he was SENDING Me to hell for being defensive about the Masons. Thanks for laying out the facts and putting things in perspective. I appreciate all you have written here and couldn't agree more. I knew the Masons were not a Religious organization, and somehow I wanted to also liken them to other clubs such as the Rotary, etc. You said so many wonderful things so much better than I tried to. I do respect others, even Ben, he is entitled to his opinion, I did not slander him, however, or say he was destined to Hell for his thoughts. I personally have also experienced more trustworthiness from others outside of Christiandom, which is one reason I am perhaps too quick to try and get others to see the good outside their own little 'religious' world. Anyway, thank you. Wonderfully worded! After all this topic started because one man wanted to fellowship with his Christian Grandfather by attending a party with him, its not like the guy was asking if he should Join the organization, or Serve Satan. Those parties - its my understanding are fun gatherings and not to indoctrinate someone into some sorta evil worship ritual. I saw nothing wrong with the guy enjoying his grandfather's company, yet it started a war against the Mason organization and others, then a personal attack, I felt of me for trying to express my feelings. Then it got to the point where I was being accused of supporting the KKK. Geesh. The statement I made "With all due respect (If I owe him any)" Was a genuine one, meant not to be slanderous or to show I did not respect someone., but If I owe this person who was quick to criticize my viewpoints and send me to hell, then I guess I owe him respect., but he certainly didn't offer me any. I agree about this post getting out of hand, and perhaps I helped to contribute to that, so this will be my last post. I need to practice more 'self control', and wisdom. To act rather than to re-act. Blessings and appreciation! Sunshine God Bless You. Sunshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine & Smiles Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) Ben, Look we will not all see things in the same light, obviously no two people even see colors the same., however, I owe you an apology in regard to the 'due respect' comment, if it caused you ill-will. Ok, if the things you write aren't your Opinion, then they are the opinions of someone or somewhere you learned them, they are in fact Interpretations. I just don't share equally with you in some of your vast interpretations, and we both have rights. I just get a little bent out of spiritual shape when others try and say someone else is bound for HELL if they don't think like them. I wish I still had my grandparents alive now that I'm older, I would spend as much waking time listening to them and loving them before I had to loose them. I think if we are condemning this grandson for attending a harmless celebration with his Christian grandfather, then it would be a sad thing. I love what Mike wrote, it really says Volumes. So for what it is worth to you, I apologize for being so quick to offer a reaction to your 'intrepretations'. It would bless me if others who care to write ME in a thread that I didn't start, please just send me a personal message so I don't feel as tho I'm the cause of a thread gone wild? Thanks! A man (woman in my case) convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still. I heard this a long time ago, and believe it is so true. Agape' I may not be perfect, but I know I'm forgiven! God is not finished with me yet, nor am I. I am a work in progress. Sunshine Edited May 31, 2006 by Sunshine & Smiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted May 31, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) The bottom line is that the Masons do not promote Christian doctrine or the God of the bible. The fact that they do good works has been acknowledged and noted. There are many Christians who do good works too. I am sure the Mason's have a few scoundrels in their midst too. All these words about the fact that there are dishonest Christians is a smoke screen. Christ is the standard not men. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Edited May 31, 2006 by Rober H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffnevins Posted May 31, 2006 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 806 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 141 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/09/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/21/1973 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 but if there is any praying or spiritual rituals you cannot take part in that, Good call. My family might get upset if they notice I don't, but would be more upset if I never showed up. It'd be nice if the family were less insisent I go. More respectful to ask then insist- I still have a few days to decide. My roomates are devoted Christians w/good insight as well. Thanks again for the latest posts. Glad people aren't letting the sun go down on their anger here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cain I. Thirsty Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 -next weekend. My grandfather! He's been a Mason for 50 years, thus the party. I rarely say no to family, but this might be a case where I should... And he's a devoted Christian. This is so strange. Masons- are wrong, right? The 32nd level is very bad news from what I've heard... Thanks for any responses- When a person is told what he should or shouldn't read or that he should or shouldn't go to a party of his Grandfather I would seriosly consider that persons religion. Sounds like mind contol to me. Usually they are afraid that if you venture out of their little (and it's little) flock you might see that other groups make sense, have truth and love God. Go to the dang party and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can Do (Phil 4:13) Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 227 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,004 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1906 Share Posted June 1, 2006 When a person is told what he should or shouldn't read or that he should or shouldn't go to a party of his Grandfather I would seriosly consider that persons religion. Sounds like mind contol to me. Usually they are afraid that if you venture out of their little (and it's little) flock you might see that other groups make sense, have truth and love God. Go to the dang party and have fun. Cain, you're just here to stir the pot aren't you The reason why the vast majority of us have suggested that the OP not go to the party isn't anything to do with your suggestions, it's a matter of spiritual discernment. Whilst we are called to be IN the world, we are called NOT to BE of the world and freemasonry is definately a worldy religion inasmuch as it leads people away from Jesus Christ, who IS the Way, the Truth and the Life Faithie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 1, 2006 but if there is any praying or spiritual rituals you cannot take part in that, Good call. My family might get upset if they notice I don't, but would be more upset if I never showed up. It'd be nice if the family were less insisent I go. More respectful to ask then insist- I still have a few days to decide. My roomates are devoted Christians w/good insight as well. Thanks again for the latest posts. Glad people aren't letting the sun go down on their anger here as well. Christians have been attending secular and non secular events for years. Honoring your grandfather isn't necessarily condoning his beliefs. It is your call if you go or not. I have attended non-Christian weddings etc. and my conscience is clear. Whatever you decide you are in my prayers and on my heart. I have struggled with these types of things for years. Here are some verses that might help. Paul lays out some guidelines for eating with non-believers. You don't strike me as one that is "weak in the faith". 1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 1 Corinthians 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. 1 Corinthians 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. I wouldn't make to big a deal out of it if you go. Just don't let people that you think are weak at the faith get to much information. I can really relate to what you are going through. God bless, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeemed098 Posted June 1, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 489 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1964 Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) Ben, Look we will not all see things in the same light, obviously no two people even see colors the same., however, I owe you an apology in regard to the 'due respect' comment, if it caused you ill-will. Ok, if the things you write aren't your Opinion, then they are the opinions of someone or somewhere you learned them, they are in fact Interpretations. I just don't share equally with you in some of your vast interpretations, and we both have rights. I just get a little bent out of spiritual shape when others try and say someone else is bound for HELL if they don't think like them. I wish I still had my grandparents alive now that I'm older, I would spend as much waking time listening to them and loving them before I had to loose them. I think if we are condemning this grandson for attending a harmless celebration with his Christian grandfather, then it would be a sad thing. I love what Mike wrote, it really says Volumes. So for what it is worth to you, I apologize for being so quick to offer a reaction to your 'intrepretations'. It would bless me if others who care to write ME in a thread that I didn't start, please just send me a personal message so I don't feel as tho I'm the cause of a thread gone wild? Thanks! A man (woman in my case) convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still. I heard this a long time ago, and believe it is so true. Agape' I may not be perfect, but I know I'm forgiven! God is not finished with me yet, nor am I. I am a work in progress. Sunshine Sunshine, Ill Will is the furthest thing from my thoughts..... I have no Ill will toward you....I have passion to see you saved from the eternal flames of Hell......I have passion to reach out to you with every last breath I have and URGE you to GET SAVED........You are a person who is heading toward the precipice of eternity where all that awaits you at the bottom is to be dashed to pieces by the Rocks of Gods Holy Law.......I have not been given permission to remove your blindfold....I have only been given authority to PROCLAIM Truth to you.....It is YOU who needs to HEAR and it is YOU who needs to SEE.......What kind of man would I be sunshine if with knowledge of the truth I do not do all I can to direct you towards the one who will give you the ears you need to hear......? Do I not OWE it to you to share this Truth, or should I just keep quiet and watch you fall into eternity without having uttered a word.....? Ill Will......NO..!! I think not....Passion....YES...Passion.....How dare i call myself a Christian if I do not share the heart of God for those who are LOST.......!!! Don't fall into the trap that so many DO sunshine of thinking that your TOO GOOD to be DAMNED.... The wages of sin is DEATH.......BUT.......The gift from God is eternal life through Christ Jesus Our Lord. You see sunshine....? Without Christ, you are already DEAD.....That is why you do not feel the weight of sin....A corpse can feel NO weight........Im not being judgemental sunshine...I'm speaking Gods Honest Truth to you......If you do not belong to Christ, you do not belong to God....Why....??? You are DEAD in sins and transgressions......That's scripture sunshine... "As for you, you were DEAD in your sins and transgressions, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is NOW at work in those who are disobedient." Ephesians 2:1,2.......You see this is key scripture..Paul has written this letter to the people of the church in Ephesus because they were ONCE Lost and DEAD to God, but now in Christ they are ALIVE to God. Because Jesus LIVES, THEY live. However they USED to BE DEAD.....If you do not have Christ sunshine then the Truth stated correctly according to Gods Word is that YOU are dead.... Thats not a judgement.....Its a Truth or its NOTHING.....Its not MY truth either....It's Gods... You must do as jesus requested...."Seek FIRST the kingdom of God and his righteousness...." Get that...?? Seek First...! Jesus said that is your first step. To being Born again. What IS the kingdom of God...??? and HOW does one find it....???? The kingdom of God is RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE and JOY in the Holy Ghost....See that shows you that you must have the Holy Ghost to be a part of the kingdom of God.....Of course now that begs the question, HOW do I get the Holy Ghost...??? Acts 2:38 "Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins and you shall receive.......The gift of the HOLY GHOST." Jesus is Gods forgiveness...Without Jesus you remain UNforgiven.....Without Jesus you remain in your sins regardless of any good works you may have done, and with UNrepentant sin in your life you can NOT be a part of the kingdom of God.....You will go where ALL sin will end up.....HELL....!! The devil and his angels would dearly love for you to continue thinking that youre too good to be damned......You see keep believing THAT lie and you will be theirs for eternity... Think on these things....i have not one ounce of malice or ill will toward you sunshine.....Just stating loud and clear for you the way things ARE....I desire to see you in heaven. Regards, Ben. Edited June 1, 2006 by redeemed098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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