Who was Melchizedek King of Salem?

[Openly Curious]

OC,

I feel slow today. Wasn't Jesus a "MAN"?

Isn't Jesus a priest of the Most High God?

Hello Mark777

No pun intended but your thoughts are very scattered but I will give it a shot as you have asked something of me.

Jesus was God in flesh no doubt he humbled himself "as" a man scriptures say. But Christ had no earthly mother or father. It was our Heavenly Father who chose Mary as Gabriel the angel had came to Mary and told her that the Lord had highly favored her and Mary was a willing vessel and it was the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary the scripture say and she was with child. And Mary was a virgin and she was with child. This was no ordinary birth as Mary was a willing vessel and was even willing to be ostricized for her faith knowing she had not been with a man yet.

So Jesus was not conceived by earthly parents. But he was born of a virgin Mary. That is very important to understand. God was in the "form" of man in the person of Jesus Christ.

I believe I already covered that Jesus is our High priest who He Himself is the Most High there is none higher for He hath highly been exalted and been given a name above every name and every knee shall bow and confess that is is Lord. While Jesus walked this earth he was the sacrifice through His death burial and resurrection He became our deliverer upon ascendeding back to the Father he prepared the way for us sprinkling His own blood on the mercy seat becoming a High Priest one that ever liveth and don't need to be replaced cause He will never die again so the priests are not needed to offer up the sweet savors of the tithes and offerings the people brought to God which was there job to kill the animals that were brought to the tabernacle for atonement and such. But they are not needed to be offered up for Christ's blood has satisfied God the Father so no sweet smelling savors of the animal sacrifices need to go up to God.

Jesus is that tenth that gift that tithe that offering for He paid the ransom price once and for all. And his offering on the cross was accepted by God the Father.

mark777

Moses was not said to be without mother and father, beginning of day or end of life.

Moses was not a priest.

Moses name does not mean "King of Righteousness".

oc

I never said Moses was without mother or father, beginning of day or end of life.

I never said Moses was a priest

I never said Moses name meant "King of Righteousness"

I said Moses was also a type and shadow of Christ

I said Moses was a deliverer

I said Moses represented Jesus Christ as our deliverer from the bondage of sin and from Satan's prison

And I will say here that the name Moses means "Deliverer" as Christ is our deliverer Moses only gives us further insight to the person of Jesus Christ and what His role was in this earth.

mark777

It seems to me that Melchizedek was like Christ in very important ways,

oc

yes he was "Like" Christ but was not Christ himself

mark777

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek.

Melchezidek is a priest forever

oc

yes abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek as he gave him a tenth of the spoils he had gotten when he rescued his relatives. Thus signifying the offering that was to come from his loins the seed and offspring of David the bright and morning star the Son of David the seed of Abraham.

No No Melchezidek is not a priest for ever It is Christ Jesus who is a priest forever "after" the "Order" of Melchezidek after his pattern in other words. As Melchezidek brought the "bread" and "wine"

to Abraham in Genesis 14:18 signifying the body and blood of Christ being the final offering once and for all doing away with the bull and goats.

mark777

Levi paid tithes through Abraham to Melchizedek. Levi being a representative of Moses and the Levitical law. This to me says that Melchizedek is greater than Moses or the Law.

what do you think.......?

oc

You are off base here Levi isn't even in the picture when Abraham of his own self in Genesis chapter 14 gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchezedek and even gives the reason why cause he didn't want it said that others had made him rich. As Abraham looked for a city who's builder and maker was God. For there was not at this time a Levitical priesthood setup who were the sons of Levi the firstborn sons were set apart to fulfill the role of the priest in the tabernacle.

You are off base in Levi being a representative of Moses and the Levitical law as well. sure the law came through Moses and the Laws that petained to the priesthood as well came through Moses the prophet But Levi was not representative of Moses.

It was a good tie in you tried to do but it is off base

What makes the characters in the old testament like Melchizedek, greater than Moses or the Law

For all three are Christ and not one greater than the other for they all represent Christ as a whole in the person he came into this world to be which was the Saviour of the world.

blessings

OC

[Mark777]

OC,

Lets take it slow. I think we are missing one another - maybe because of language.

OC: "Jesus was God in flesh no doubt he humbled himself "as" a man scriptures say. But Christ had no earthly mother or father. It was our Heavenly Father who chose Mary as Gabriel the angel had came to Mary and told her that the Lord had highly favored her and Mary was a willing vessel and it was the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary the scripture say and she was with child. And Mary was a virgin and she was with child. This was no ordinary birth as Mary was a willing vessel and was even willing to be ostricized for her faith knowing she had not been with a man yet.

So Jesus was not conceived by earthly parents. But he was born of a virgin Mary. That is very important to understand. God was in the "form" of man in the person of Jesus Christ."

Mark777: How do you explain the statement in Hebrews 7:3 that says Melchizedek was, "...without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither beginning of days nor end of life..." ? How can a mere man be described in this way?

I agree with what you say about Jesus and the sacrifice.

OC: "And I will say here that the name Moses means "Deliverer" as Christ is our deliverer ."

Mark777: Moses means "taken out of water".

OC: "No No Melchezidek is not a priest for ever..."

Mark777: Melchizedek is apriest of the most high God, it is said that he has no beginning of day nor end of life. What has caused Him not to be a priest forever?

OC: "You are off base here Levi isn't even in the picture when Abraham of his own self in Genesis chapter 14 gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchezedek..."

Mark777: OC, look at verse 9 & 10. (Hebrews 7:9-10.)

OC: "You are off base in Levi being a representative of Moses and the Levitical law as well. sure the law came through Moses and the Laws that petained to the priesthood as well came through Moses the prophet But Levi was not representative of Moses."

Mark777: Levi is representative of the levitical priesthood , the law, and the sacrificial rituals. The writer of Hebrews uses Levi in this manner.

OC: "What makes the characters in the old testament like Melchizedek, greater than Moses or the Law. For all three are Christ and not one greater than the other for they all represent Christ as a whole in the person he came into this world to be which was the Saviour of the world."

Mark777: I am not sure what you mean here can you be more specific?

[Openly Curious]

OC,

Lets take it slow. I think we are missing one another - maybe because of language.

OC: "Jesus was God in flesh no doubt he humbled himself "as" a man scriptures say. But Christ had no earthly mother or father. It was our Heavenly Father who chose Mary as Gabriel the angel had came to Mary and told her that the Lord had highly favored her and Mary was a willing vessel and it was the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary the scripture say and she was with child. And Mary was a virgin and she was with child. This was no ordinary birth as Mary was a willing vessel and was even willing to be ostricized for her faith knowing she had not been with a man yet.

So Jesus was not conceived by earthly parents. But he was born of a virgin Mary. That is very important to understand. God was in the "form" of man in the person of Jesus Christ."

Mark777: How do you explain the statement in Hebrews 7:3 that says Melchizedek was, "...without father, without mother, without geneology, having neither beginning of days nor end of life..." ? How can a mere man be described in this way?

oc

Well I thought i already give my opinion on it which is all i can do as there are differences of opinions that people hold in regards to Melchizedek on the very scripture as I said in my very first post to you. My opinion is again it is refering to Christ Jesus who was born of a virgin He has always been and always will be for He ever liveth to make intercession for us Now if you don't want to share that view it is okay by me as I said at the beginning their are differences of opinions because of this very scripture. Each to his own in this regards. You ask how can a mere man be described in this way? Well couldn't that be related to the Son of God as well. That is why I draw my conclusions.

mark777

I agree with what you say about Jesus and the sacrifice.

oc

Good we agree on something I was beginning to think this thread should have been in the controversy section.

OC: "And I will say here that the name Moses means "Deliverer" as Christ is our deliverer ."

Mark777: Moses means "taken out of water".

oc

I guess it is what book or dictionary you looking up under on this one.

OC: "No No Melchezidek is not a priest for ever..."

Mark777: Melchizedek is apriest of the most high God, it is said that he has no beginning of day nor end of life. What has caused Him not to be a priest forever?

oc

It is Christ who is our High priest forever. And I really don't know why you would even want to agrue on this one because you believe the two are the same so in this regards what i am saying is true even if I think the two are different you don't ?????

OC: "You are off base here Levi isn't even in the picture when Abraham of his own self in Genesis chapter 14 gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchezedek..."

Mark777: OC, look at verse 9 & 10. (Hebrews 7:9-10.)

oc

okay verse 9 is dealing with the Levites who had not been born yet from Abraham's lineage yet but when they were set up and in place the priest received a portion for themselves from all the offerings that were brought to the temple or tabernacle to be offered up to the Lord. And they got this portion because of the work they did in the temple continually before the Lord. And it was out of this portion the priest got they also paid a tenth or a tithe back to the Lord. You can find this in Numbers 18:21.26

Now Levi was not born yet he was still yet in the loins of Abraham referring here to verse 10 but this all came later when God set up the Levitical priesthood which came from the lineage of Abraham as it says to us in verse 10

And this all ties into what verse 5 has told us in the Hebrew 7:5 verse of text.

OC: "You are off base in Levi being a representative of Moses and the Levitical law as well. sure the law came through Moses and the Laws that petained to the priesthood as well came through Moses the prophet But Levi was not representative of Moses."

Mark777: Levi is representative of the levitical priesthood , the law, and the sacrificial rituals. The writer of Hebrews uses Levi in this manner.

oc

Levi was a son of Abraham that God used to set up the Levitical priesthood as the sons of Levi were set apart by God to fulfill this function on behalf of the Israelite children they were the descendant of Abraham. so Levi has nothing to do with Moses at all as far as being a represenative of him.

OC: "What makes the characters in the old testament like Melchizedek, greater than Moses or the Law. For all three are Christ and not one greater than the other for they all represent Christ as a whole in the person he came into this world to be which was the Saviour of the world."

Mark777: I am not sure what you mean here can you be more specific?

It was in response to your comments to Levi being a represenative of Moses the Levitical law and where you said Melchizedek was greater than Moses or the law. which was left out here for some reason by you. I kinda think my reply is plain if not I don't know how to refrase to make it any clearer. Just that I see all three aspects in the person of Jesus Christ being a priest, fulfilling the law, and being a deliverer or saviour to the world."

Well I don't want to keep debating this with you it has been nice talking on the subject with you and a blessing at the same time for Melchizedek is worthy of study and it will only bring out more of who Christ is when you do have this study and Christ is always a blessing. and I am glad we have shared Christ with one another within this thread. blessings to you

OC

[Mark777]

OC,

Don't get offended by my questioning. I am not sure I have settled on an opinion yet. I was asking questions to become more specific. I do not know if Melchizedek was Christ or not. You were kind enough to discuss this with me and I was using the opportunity to escape my own thinking by exploring yours. My apologies.

In Christ,

Mark

[Mark777]

Hello Butero,

I agree. Melchizedek sounds like Christ but who can know for sure. There are other manifestations of "the Lord". Read Genesis chapters 18 &19. Very interesting feeling I get when reading these things. I know God is here all the time but it is cool to think that He may present Himself as a man occassionally and interacts with people. At least in the distant past.

Mark

[Openly Curious]

OC,

Don't get offended by my questioning. I am not sure I have settled on an opinion yet. I was asking questions to become more specific. I do not know if Melchizedek was Christ or not. You were kind enough to discuss this with me and I was using the opportunity to escape my own thinking by exploring yours. My apologies.

In Christ,

Mark

Hello Mark777

I am not offended at all I enjoyed talking with you on the subject as I said it was a blessing to me to talk with you. I just know that this subject always comes back around to Melchizedek had no earthly mother and father no geneologies and don't die. And I don't want to debate because you will draw you own conclusion as I have mine. But I will give you one thing to ponder for your consideration as to whether it was talking of Christ Jesus or the scripture is referring to the man Melchizedek. If what I say here is true then you should have to drawn the obvious conclusion.

It says in Genesis chapter 14 that there was a war among the kings of the earth at that time. So it would be fair to say that nation was rising against nation. Also would be fair to say that kingdoms were rising against kingdoms in this passage of text. In other words the kings of the earth at that time were battling for position trying to conquer other kingdoms.

Now with this in mind it says that Melchizedek was a King himself in other words he had a kingdom of his own amidst these other kingdoms (which this is all bible prophecy but I am only going this way to show you something) on the earth at that time. For he was King of Salem the scriptures tell us and not only was he a King but he was also a priest of the Most High God who knew just like Abraham did that God was the possessor of heaven and earth in other words the kingdoms of this world belong to God and he is in control of them.

Now in Daniel you will find that Nebuchanezzar King of Babylon in chapter 2 of Daniel had to find that out the hard way and had to eat with the beast of the field eating grass until his nails grew out like eagles claws and his hair grew long until he acknowledged the Most High God reigned in the kingdoms of this world and it was all God's doing and none of his. Nebuchadnezzar had conquered all the nations of the earth at that time and was the dominant world power but God humbled him till he learned that it was God who ruled and was the posssessor of heaven and earth and not he himself.

Now in Genesis 14 both Abraham and Melchizedek knew this they had that knowledge okay then if it is like you say or think that Melchizedek was not a literal man that lived on earth but Christ--incarnate I think it was you said then let's put it in that setting for a moment and draw the obvious conclusions from this view point.

If Melchizedek was Christ on earth at that time like you think then it would mean Christ kingdom at that time in history was set up on this earth and that kingdom was King of Salem where Christ ruled and reigned from at on the earth in history and where he was a priest unto the Most High God. This would have to be true within light of your view and scriptures if you believe Melchizedek was not a literal man.

But I do not share this view I believe that Christ is yet to come in the future to set up His kingdom in this earth as these events in Genesis are foretelling and teaching us these things through sybolism and types and shadows pointing us to the coming of Christ the true High Priest that was to come the spotless lamb that did away with the work of the priesthood in the offering up of the offerrings.

It foretells and portrays to us the coming time in the future that Christ the King of kings and Lord of lords will overthrow the kingdoms of this world and set up His everlasting kingdom on this earth. For He is King of Righteousness and King of Peace this has not happened yet on this earth it is a future event yet to come. for it is prophesied and foretold and taught and showed to us in scriptures.

So if Melchizedek was Christ as you suggest and not a literal man as I do believe then you would have to also believe in light of the Genesis chapter 14 scriptures that Christ ruled in a kingdom on earth at that time in history and His kingdom was Salem. I do not share that view.

However I do have an open mind and not so stuck on my own opinion to where I can't learn further as I know this account could have been a precursor to the manifestation of God's kingdom on earth during the 1000 year reign of peace in the book of Revelation which is to come and as scripture say in Genesis 14 Melchizedek had a kingdom and it doesn't seem he went to war with the other kings which also could fit.

blessings

OC

[Mark777]

Butero,

I always thought that Salem was ancient JeruSALEM. I am not sure why I thought that. I have read a lot for many years.

OC,

The text does not give enough details to know. You are being logical and the possibility is there. Another possibility is the title of King of Salem could be a spiritual referrence. It does seem like there is a relationship between Abraham and Melchizedek. Abraham recognizes his authority. Whether this is because Melchizedek was an actual earthly King or that the familiarity between them came from a spiritual relationship, which Jesus refers to in John, is unclear. Abraham was shown or told about the days of Jesus. Maybe Jesus told Abraham himself? We know that Abraham talked with God.

OC, I do not know and haven't decided for myself. The possibilities are these: Melchizedek was an actual human king with his own kingdom, He was Christ - whether living an actual life or being just a manifestation. If Hebrews is an actual description of Melchizedek, then having neither father or mother seems to say he was a manifestation of Christ.

Is there any Hebrew people around that may shed any light on the Genesis text?

Mark

[Openly Curious]

Butero,

I always thought that Salem was ancient JeruSALEM. I am not sure why I thought that. I have read a lot for many years.

Mark777

OC,The text does not give enough details to know. You are being logical and the possibility is there. Another possibility is the title of King of Salem could be a spiritual referrence. It does seem like there is a relationship between Abraham and Melchizedek. Abraham recognizes his authority. Whether this is because Melchizedek was an actual earthly King or that the familiarity between them came from a spiritual relationship, which Jesus refers to in John, is unclear. Abraham was shown or told about the days of Jesus. Maybe Jesus told Abraham himself? We know that Abraham talked with God.

Hello Mark777

sorry so long getting back to this thread. The only relationship I see between Melchizedek and Abraham in Genesis 14 is that Melchizedek was a priest of the most high God. Now this just simply means that he was a minister of God as people in that time period did call on God they started doing this again in the earth during the time of Lamech so their were ministers of the Lord on this earth now it says Melchizedek was a priest. Now since the Levitical priesthood had not been set up yet it is logical to say he was just a lay shepherd a minister of God so to speak for he did not have to do all the works of the priests in the ceremonial aspects of the law which came later on as the old testament covenant was established with God's people Israel.

In the story of Genesis 14 in the war of the kings that was going on (verses 1-7) the war started out with 3 kings going up against 5 kings and Tidal who was king of nations in Gen.14:1 could be a type of anti-christ as he was head honcho head of the ten kingdoms that are mentioned on the earth at this time (as Daniel the prophet speaks of the ten horns 10 kingdoms in chapter 7).

But in verses 8-16 of Genesis 14 two more kingdoms out of the 10 kingdoms got involved in the war of the kings being Sodom and Gomorrah so now instead of 3 kingdoms to 5 kingdoms fighting you have 5 kings fighting 4 kings here which are a total of 9 out of the 10 kingdoms that existed fighting one another for dominance.

Scripture tell us that Sodom and Gomorrah had fallen prey to the slimepits and had to flee for cover in the mountain areas verse 10. And during this time they went and raided the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah taking away and looting whatever they could take with them from the cities they even took Lot who was Abraham's nephew his own kin and all of his goods also they took the women and the people who was still in the cities prisoners and took them captive as well. verses 11-12,16

Abraham got word of it in verse 13 so he take 300 plus of his own servants as Abraham was a rich man and he trains them and arms them for battle and he goes to get his nephew back and was successful at it verses 14-16 he even got all the things that was looted all those goods all the women and people who had been taken prisoner and Lot and all of his goods he recovered everything that had been taken in the raid.

Now as Abraham is coming back with all this stuff two kings go out to meet him one is Melchizedek who is both the king of Salem and a priest or minister of God. The other king is king of Sodom verse 17-18

In verses 18-20 Melchizedek goes out and blesses Abraham with the gifts of the bread and wine and blesses Abraham he encourages him in the Lord and acknowledges God as being the possessor of heaven and earth and in verse 20 gives God the glory for his victory over his enemies. And after Melchizedek does this Abraham in verse 20 gives the King of Salem a tenth of all the spoils that he had brought back from the raid unto his kingdom. Which Melchizedek is a type of Christ who is King of peace representing he will defeat our enemies giving us peace through Christ Jesus. Now out of all the 10 kingdoms of the earth at this time 9 of them was at war with one another. The King of Salem was the only kingdom that did not get involved in the war of the kings Melchizedek was a king of peace. and he was blessed for it as Abraham gave him a tenth of all the spoils. signifying the offering of the spotless lamb that would one day come and do away with the offerings of bulls and goats. As we know that Christ was still in the loins of Abraham and would be offered up on the cross of Calvary and also in the latter days be the little horn (kingdom) of Daniel chapter 7 that will be established forever and ever and the people of God will be at peace forever more and the king of peace shall rule and reign once and for all.

I hope you read Psalms 110 that I introduced in a few post back as it show this further as Christ was the son of David the root and offspring of Jesse in matthew chapter one. But Christ is both priest and victor.

Now the king of Sodom also came out to meet Abraham when he got back in verse 21 and tells Abraham to just give him the women and people back that had been taken prisoner then he could keep all the rest of the loot for himself of the spoils.

And Abraham in verse 22-23 tell the king of Sodom that he had lifted up his hands to the God of heaven and blessed him and acknowledge that it was he who was the possessor of heaven and earth. And Abraham made it plain that he wouldn't even so much as keep a "shoe latchet" of his stuff because King Sodom would then tell everybody he had made Abraham rich. And Abraham did not want the King of Sodom to get that kind of glory.

As Abraham was already a rich man as God had visited him and told him every where the sole of his feet would walk in the breath of the land would be his for heritage and Abraham at this time already had great riches given unto him by God and no one else. And Abraham said he would not even keep so much a "shoe latchet" of his stuff as Abraham knew that there was one to be born of his own loins that would take away the sins of man that offering that John the baptist said when Jesus came to the Jordan river to be baptized by John. John the baptist said Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of man whose "shoe latchet" I am not even worthy to unloose. For it is Christ who makes us rich and he alone and none other shall get the glory is what Abraham is really saying to the King of Sodom. And Abraham in verse 23 gave everything that had been taken in the raid and restored it back to the king of Sodom except the tenth of the spoils he gave to Melchizedek and the portion he gave unto the three cofederate bothers of his in verse 13 later part which is who it is referring to in verse 23 getting there portion.

So the devil didn't get the glory for making Abraham rich though he did come tempting Abraham.

From here you will begin reading where Abraham binds Isaac his son up and was going to slay him on the altar but God provided a ram caught up in the thicket as a sacrifice until the appointed time of Christ should come.

[Openly Curious]

OC, I do not know and haven't decided for myself. The possibilities are these: Melchizedek was an actual human king with his own kingdom, He was Christ - whether living an actual life or being just a manifestation. If Hebrews is an actual description of Melchizedek, then having neither father or mother seems to say he was a manifestation of Christ.

Is there any Hebrew people around that may shed any light on the Genesis text?

Mark

Hello Mark777

In my opinion Melchizedek was a human man who was a priest or minister of God and he was a literal king who had a literal kingdom on this earth at that time in history called Salem. I don't believe that the kingdom of Salem was not real or a form of any kind but it was real. Just like I think the man Melchizedek was a real human being and was not a form of Christ as the fourth man in the fire in the book of Daniel was a form of Christ.

The king of Salem Melchizedek was the only king and kingdom out of the 10 kingdoms of the earth that did not go to war Melchizedek stayed out of the battle entirely for He was a king of peace and he ruled his kingdom thus He ruled in peace and God blessed him abundantly through Abraham as Abraham gave him a tenth of the spoils from the battle. Blessed are the peace makers comes to mind for they shall inherit the earth. If the kingdom of Melchizedek was not real then it would make no sense to give goods unto a king or kingdom if it was not there literally would it they would just be sitting out there in the field for no reason and waste away. I don't believe that was the case.

He was just a picture or type of Christ that was to come still is all for I don't believe King of Salem was Christ-incarnate as you and butero are suggesting he was. For their is only one who was Christ incarnate and that would be the man Christ Jesus God in flesh born of a virgin Mary who had neither father or mother beginning nor ending of days Psalms 110 for he was "after the order of Melchizedek" for he brought peace to those bound up in sins to those troubled and diseased those that were tormented and oppressed as he set them at liberty and is still doing so today for He is our Peace and truly it can be said of him He is "after the order of Melchizedek". for he came after and not before and will so rule and reign in the near future in the things that will happen and transpire in the latter days concerning our great God and King.

blessings and this is pretty much my view on the subject as I do not believe the King of Salem or his kingdom was a manifestation but it was a real king and a real kingdom on the earth at that time. You and butero will have to take up on that view as i don't share it with you two. blessings once again and it has been a blessing to talk with you on these things.

OC

[Mark777]

Hi OC,

Thanks for the time spent answering me!

I haven't had the time to research it yet but I think that Salem was ancient Jerusalem. It was a spiritual center of that area. Give me time and I will see if I can verify that.

Melchizedek COULD have been Christ and His kingdom could have been the eternal one that He is King of. If Salem is Jerusalem then it is God's Eternal city. It could have been protected by its unimportance to other kings. Who knows how Melchizedek used the tithe of Abraham. Maybe He dispersed it or built and developed the city of Salem. This is all conjecture, I know.

It could have been exactly how you have described it. (thank you for the work you did on it.) I still wonder about the statement about Melchizedek in Hebrews - "without parent and without beginning of days or end of life. I have read where this is explained by saying that God made Melchizedek's geneology obscure to style him as a Christ type figure. I do not accept this explanation though. Why would God make someone look like Christ - who really wasn't?

Mark