The Pride of the Nations Will Fall

[Guest jckduboise]

christ free servant,

i hope you don't have any trees in your yard that topples over during a storm it could be a sign towards you. i think you are misrepresenting the scriptures and the tree falling.

OC

In addition to this christ free servant

if you want to warn America to wake then hearld this gospel message from the pages of God's word

I notice you only say it was "ONE" tree that fell but the scriptures you use to back up what you are thinking does not fit what you saw. The scripture in Zechariah chapter 11 talks about the PRIDE of TWO trees. So how do you rectify all of this you have said thus far when it was only ONE tree that fell.

OC

Sue, a serious comment and question. And to Butero as well. This board is read by people from all over the world, that's why my comment about visions about other countries; it was not meant to be as flipant as it came across. What about the G-dly men and women in the country? Are they to be judged as well? Or will they insulated against this judgment? I guess what I am getting at, is that there is no judgment indicated in the Scriptures for Christians. We have already be judged in Christ Jesus.

well for those who are resting on their laurels as being a "Christian" and having already been judged..let me just say that Pride and a False Sense of Security will get ya..God will judge ALL, if you have a closet to be cleaning best clean it.

God is looking for humble and pure..not proud and boastful..not complacent and lazy..so what if there is no judement indicated for Christian's, we Christians are people and will fall in line for judgement just as everyone else..

to elaborate further..

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with US, what will the outcome be for those who do not OBEY the gospel of God?

18 And "if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should COMMIT themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

Also let's not forget the letter to the 7 churches in Revelation..5 of them had much against them.

[felix]

I strongly exhort those who do not receive Christ's Free Servant's message to read http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=41715 on the meaning of Prophecy.

Thank you for this Word Sue. May the Lord Jesus Christ continue to strengthen you through His Spirit.

[Christ's Free Servant]

to elaborate further..

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with US, what will the outcome be for those who do not OBEY the gospel of God?

18 And "if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should COMMIT themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

Also let's not forget the letter to the 7 churches in Revelation..5 of them had much against them.

jckduboise,

I have quoted those scriptures you mention here on post #46, page 5.

You know, I used to think that only the OT and Revelation had to do with the judgment of God. I was trying, several times, to escape reading about judgment and switched to reading the NT thinking I would get a reprieve, but then I discovered that the NT is loaded with words about judgment, too, and not just the final judgment, either. No matter where I read in scripture, I kept seeing the judgment of God, not because I was looking for it, but because it is there. So many people think that Christianity is all about saying some prayer and "poof" one has a ticket into heaven, but as a young woman, a very long time ago, I began to be impressed of God at how many references in the NT give warnings to believers against living lives for themselves, because God will judge them. If they are true believers, they will not face the final judgment of eternal separation from God, but God will judge them for their actions, and if they are truly His children, he will discipline them. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, but I see so little of this kind of reverence and respect and awe of God anymore. God doesn't mess! He is slow to anger, abounding in love and mercy, but it does not say he will not reach the breaking point where he says "That's the last straw!" Truly the letters to the seven churches in Revelation are great examples of God's love, his kindness, his mercy, his patience, but also his discipline/judgment. If he does not discipline us, then he does not truly love us. But, because he loves us so much, and because he is such a merciful God, and because he longs to hide us in the shelter of his wings, he will discipline us for our good, and he will discipline the church for our good.

[Guest jckduboise]

to elaborate further..

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with US, what will the outcome be for those who do not OBEY the gospel of God?

18 And "if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should COMMIT themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

Also let's not forget the letter to the 7 churches in Revelation..5 of them had much against them.

jckduboise,

I have quoted those scriptures you mention here on post #46, page 5.

You know, I used to think that only the OT and Revelation had to do with the judgment of God. I was trying, several times, to escape reading about judgment and switched to reading the NT thinking I would get a reprieve, but then I discovered that the NT is loaded with words about judgment, too, and not just the final judgment, either. No matter where I read in scripture, I kept seeing the judgment of God, not because I was looking for it, but because it is there. So many people think that Christianity is all about saying some prayer and "poof" one has a ticket into heaven, but as a young woman, a very long time ago, I began to be impressed of God at how many references in the NT give warnings to believers against living lives for themselves, because God will judge them. If they are true believers, they will not face the final judgment of eternal separation from God, but God will judge them for their actions, and if they are truly His children, he will discipline them. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, but I see so little of this kind of reverence and respect and awe of God anymore. God doesn't mess! He is slow to anger, abounding in love and mercy, but it does not say he will not reach the breaking point where he says "That's the last straw!" Truly the letters to the seven churches in Revelation are great examples of God's love, his kindness, his mercy, his patience, but also his discipline/judgment. If he does not discipline us, then he does not truly love us. But, because he loves us so much, and because he is such a merciful God, and because he longs to hide us in the shelter of his wings, he will discipline us for our good, and he will discipline the church for our good.

Sorry Sue, I didn't see that you had already quoted those particular scriptures..I believe that both the OT, NT and the Revelation are all enough of an anwer to us as to what is in store for all..I do believe that those who do not heed these warnings will perish whether He loves us or not..whether we profess Him or not...it will be better for those who did not know Him..and I do believe that He will reach a point of "That is the last straw"...many ARE invited but few will be chosen..we will live under His protection as long as we are righteous and faithful only to Him..if we are not judgment will be passed..many who believe they have a place with God in the new heaven and new earth will be astonished when they are turned away. This is my very strong belief..

[Christ's Free Servant]

I strongly exhort those who do not receive Christ's Free Servant's message to read http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=41715 on the meaning of Prophecy.

Thank you for this Word Sue. May the Lord Jesus Christ continue to strengthen you through His Spirit.

Thank you, Felix, for these words of encouragement.

I read a little bit of what you posted on prophecy, but did not have time to read it all. I also have had a little difficulty with words that supposedly are God's direct words to the prophet and then through the prophet to us, because we don't need a prophet to speak God's direct words to us anymore, because we have the Holy Spirit within us and we have the Bible. So, the meaning of prophecy changed, I believe, once Christ entered into us through the person of the Holy Spirit. But, I must admit that sometimes these types of prophesies truly have been God's words for me at times, and the words were in line with the words he has spoken to me over many years through his word and during our times together. But, we must always test them through prayer to see if this is truly what God is saying. Sometimes these words were confirmations of what God had already been saying to me, so his Holy Spirit bore witness in my heart that this was of God. He uses the body of Christ to confirm his words to us many times.

Still, we have the Church, and we have the gifts of the Spirit within the Church, and Paul said he would that all would prophesy. So, what did he mean? I think it can be in several forms, one of which is to share a word from the Bible and to interpret it within its context, but to make application to a current day situation. Another can be that God would speak a personal message to a person through the Holy Spirit within him or through God's revealed word in the bible but more in the sense of gaining a principle from the passage, rather than making a correct interpretation of the passage within its context, providing that the principle gained does not contradict the teachings of scripture as a whole. This can be done through preaching, through sharing in a group Bible study, and through sharing with the body from our quiet times with God, etc.

For example, we might read the passage about Jesus' words to the rich young ruler. Now, these are not Jesus' universal words to all of us, but he may say to us personally as we read the scripture, "Your wealth is keeping you from walking in obedience to me, so sell (however much he tells us to sell) what you have and give it to the poor and then come and follow me." This is not, however, to be taught universally that all of us should sell all we have and give to the poor. However, a principle can be gleaned from it, and that is that "the love of money is the root of all evil" and that our possessions should never take priority over our relationship with the Lord and we should have the attitude that all that we have is God's and it is his to give and his to take away. And, there may be times when that is exactly God's message for a certain group of people at a certain time. But, you are right. We say them in our own words, just like preachers do every week, and you know, they are not perfect, because we are not perfect, and because our words are not "God breathed," though hopefully they are truly from the Holy Spirit speaking within us. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit takes all that is God's and makes it known to us.

In other words, these are styles of preaching, i.e. prophesying. Some preachers will give a message they believe is what God wants them to say to their congregation through a literal word for word translation of the passage, but will make practical application. Others will take a passage of scripture and will look for a lesson to be learned or a principle to be taught or an analogy that could be used in other situations, and I believe that sometimes these are given to them by God through prayer and through the reading of the word. But, that does not mean that every word they utter is the word of God. That is why we must be discerning and we must test the spirits. But, we should not expect perfection. In other words, I love to hear Chuck Swindol preach. I believe he is a godly man and that God speaks through him, but that does not mean every word that proceeds out of his mouth is the absolute truth. If that were the case, then we would not have so many interpretations of scripture and varying denominations, but we would all think like Big Chuck. But, we do have these varied interpretations because we all hear God differently. So, who is right? Should we write someone off it they are 95% right but have one or two things not quite right? No! Then, we would have to stop listening to preachers and other believers all together.

I Co. 13 says: "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

I don't know about you, but I have not reached perfection yet. I know in part. That is why we need the body of Christ. Other parts of the body may know some parts I might not know, or they may need to correct me if I am in error or they may encourage me to persevere or I may encourage them because God is saying the same thing to them and they feel like they are standing alone out there. Sometimes I know the exact words God is saying, but sometimes I don't know the exact meaning, so I need discernment to understand what he is trying to tell me. Even Jesus' own disciples did not understand many of the things he said, and they had him in person. Even after he explained some things, they still did not understand until they actually saw it happen. Peter did not understand the vision of the sheet with the food that was unclean, even after seeing it three times, and his understanding was still incomplete even as it began to unfold in front of his eyes. Finally, at one point a light bulb turned on inside his head and he got it. Sometimes God unfolds his truths to us in the same way, a little at a time. I think sometimes we need to learn "as we go; as we step out in faith," warts and all.

[Openly Curious]

christ free servant,

i hope you don't have any trees in your yard that topples over during a storm it could be a sign towards you. i think you are misrepresenting the scriptures and the tree falling.

OC

I am suprised at your comment OC..

I don't feel there is misrepresentation on Sue's part. I fee there is misinterpretation on your part..

each to his own everone is free to have they opinion

OC

[Guest jckduboise]

christ free servant,

i hope you don't have any trees in your yard that topples over during a storm it could be a sign towards you. i think you are misrepresenting the scriptures and the tree falling.

OC

I am suprised at your comment OC..

I don't feel there is misrepresentation on Sue's part. I fee there is misinterpretation on your part..

each to his own everone is free to have they opinion

OC

Yes they are OC, yes they are..May God keep you and Bless you

[felix]

I strongly exhort those who do not receive Christ's Free Servant's message to read http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=41715 on the meaning of Prophecy.

Thank you for this Word Sue. May the Lord Jesus Christ continue to strengthen you through His Spirit.

Thank you, Felix, for these words of encouragement.

I read a little bit of what you posted on prophecy, but did not have time to read it all. I also have had a little difficulty with words that supposedly are God's direct words to the prophet and then through the prophet to us, because we don't need a prophet to speak God's direct words to us anymore, because we have the Holy Spirit within us and we have the Bible. So, the meaning of prophecy changed, I believe, once Christ entered into us through the person of the Holy Spirit. But, I must admit that sometimes these types of prophesies truly have been God's words for me at times, and the words were in line with the words he has spoken to me over many years through his word and during our times together. But, we must always test them through prayer to see if this is truly what God is saying. Sometimes these words were confirmations of what God had already been saying to me, so his Holy Spirit bore witness in my heart that this was of God. He uses the body of Christ to confirm his words to us many times.

Still, we have the Church, and we have the gifts of the Spirit within the Church, and Paul said he would that all would prophesy. So, what did he mean? I think it can be in several forms, one of which is to share a word from the Bible and to interpret it within its context, but to make application to a current day situation. Another can be that God would speak a personal message to a person through the Holy Spirit within him or through God's revealed word in the bible but more in the sense of gaining a principle from the passage, rather than making a correct interpretation of the passage within its context, providing that the principle gained does not contradict the teachings of scripture as a whole. This can be done through preaching, through sharing in a group Bible study, and through sharing with the body from our quiet times with God, etc.

For example, we might read the passage about Jesus' words to the rich young ruler. Now, these are not Jesus' universal words to all of us, but he may say to us personally as we read the scripture, "Your wealth is keeping you from walking in obedience to me, so sell (however much he tells us to sell) what you have and give it to the poor and then come and follow me." This is not, however, to be taught universally that all of us should sell all we have and give to the poor. However, a principle can be gleaned from it, and that is that "the love of money is the root of all evil" and that our possessions should never take priority over our relationship with the Lord and we should have the attitude that all that we have is God's and it is his to give and his to take away. And, there may be times when that is exactly God's message for a certain group of people at a certain time. But, you are right. We say them in our own words, just like preachers do every week, and you know, they are not perfect, because we are not perfect, and because our words are not "God breathed," though hopefully they are truly from the Holy Spirit speaking within us. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit takes all that is God's and makes it known to us.

In other words, these are styles of preaching, i.e. prophesying. Some preachers will give a message they believe is what God wants them to say to their congregation through a literal word for word translation of the passage, but will make practical application. Others will take a passage of scripture and will look for a lesson to be learned or a principle to be taught or an analogy that could be used in other situations, and I believe that sometimes these are given to them by God through prayer and through the reading of the word. But, that does not mean that every word they utter is the word of God. That is why we must be discerning and we must test the spirits. But, we should not expect perfection. In other words, I love to hear Chuck Swindol preach. I believe he is a godly man and that God speaks through him, but that does not mean every word that proceeds out of his mouth is the absolute truth. If that were the case, then we would not have so many interpretations of scripture and varying denominations, but we would all think like Big Chuck. But, we do have these varied interpretations because we all hear God differently. So, who is right? Should we write someone off it they are 95% right but have one or two things not quite right? No! Then, we would have to stop listening to preachers and other believers all together.

I Co. 13 says: "For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

I don't know about you, but I have not reached perfection yet. I know in part. That is why we need the body of Christ. Other parts of the body may know some parts I might not know, or they may need to correct me if I am in error or they may encourage me to persevere or I may encourage them because God is saying the same thing to them and they feel like they are standing alone out there. Sometimes I know the exact words God is saying, but sometimes I don't know the exact meaning, so I need discernment to understand what he is trying to tell me. Even Jesus' own disciples did not understand many of the things he said, and they had him in person. Even after he explained some things, they still did not understand until they actually saw it happen. Peter did not understand the vision of the sheet with the food that was unclean, even after seeing it three times, and his understanding was still incomplete even as it began to unfold in front of his eyes. Finally, at one point a light bulb turned on inside his head and he got it. Sometimes God unfolds his truths to us in the same way, a little at a time. I think sometimes we need to learn "as we go; as we step out in faith," warts and all.

I know that you are led by the Spirit of God. I am glad to hear that you are keep your morning revival with God, that is so important. Just know that man's messages most often do not receive any opposition. It is when we receive a message from God that we receive most opposition from the Church. People do not realize that Satan is unconcerned about the lost...they are already His...Satan is worried about the strength of the Church. The Church is what Satan wants to tear down so it does not come as a surprise that Satan is most active in destroying it.

That is why many true messages to the Churches are not being received. The people of the Church become complacent in their man-made ways and concepts that they think are of God but are not. They are using the Grace of the Lord Jesus as a license to sin...they do not have contrite spirits and hearts. They do not know the spirit, they only know the letter which kills. They quote scripture yet not by the teaching of the Holy Spirit, but only with their own understanding and agenda. For even Satan can quote scripture to His uses.

But we can know when we are right with the Lord and know the things He has revealed to us. We have a relationship with Him where it is all clear. Man will always question this because the spiritual things of the Lord they do not and cannot understand.

[Marnie]

The fact Jesus makes the statement, "the end is not yet," and calls it "the beginning of sorrows," leads me to believe this is not the tribulation period itself, but a prelude to it. As for God not pouring out his wrath in the "age of grace," I know this is widely taught, but I have never believed this doctrine is taught in scripture. If you have some scriptures that show conclusively that God will not pour out any judgements upon this world between the cross and the beginning of the great tribulation period, I will certainly consider them.

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" --Matthew 24:3

Three questions were asked:

(1) When will this happen?

This question refers to the statement of Jesus concerning the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Dan. 9:26; Luke 21:20--24).

(2) What will be the sign of your coming?

This question does not have to do with the rapture of the Church, but rather the Second Advent of Christ to earth with the saints to set up a kingdom in the world. The first 12 signs will be fulfilled down to the middle of Daniel's 70th Week, the Tribualtion. The abomination of desolation happens in the Matt 24:15 and corresponds to the middle of the seven year Tribulation. The first six signs were given, and then Jesus said "All these are the beginning of birth pains." This refers to the agonies Israel will suffer under the future ten kings of the Revived Roman Empire and under the whore in the first three and one half years of the 70th Week. These "birth pangs" will continue throughout the rest of the Week (Trib) until the whole nation of Israel is delivered up by Christ at His coming(Zech. 12:10; 14:1-21; Matt. 23:37-39; 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).

(3) And of the end of the age?

This refers to the coming of Messiah to restore Israel to her glory. It was/is the hope of the Jews. It is a typical Jewish question, asked by the disciples who were Jews, and Jesus replies with a typical Jewish answer. He tells them of the events leading up to the appearing of the Messiah in glory and even the matter of His coming.

[Marnie]

well for those who are resting on their laurels as being a "Christian" and having already been judged..let me just say that Pride and a False Sense of Security will get ya..God will judge ALL, if you have a closet to be cleaning best clean it.

God is looking for humble and pure..not proud and boastful..not complacent and lazy..so what if there is no judement indicated for Christian's, we Christians are people and will fall in line for judgement just as everyone else..

No, we won't. We have already been judged in Christ. To suggest we need a future judgment is to suggest Christ's work on the Cross was insufficient. I am sure you don't mean to suggest that.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.--Romans 8:1