LightofJesus Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 362 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/04/1955 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I would also like to ask you this since I am a bit surprised by that answer. If all self-proclaimed pastors are false, are their any real pastors in any churches and what is a Biblical model of what the Bible is speaking of? there are some...but they are recognized and not self-proclaimed. The "kahal" is any assembly of the saints (and "assembly" is the correct interpretation of the word which has been re-interpreted as "Church"). We all know that buildings and denominations have nothing to do with it, ci? The biblical model is people who live together in a community based on their trust in Yeshua. Within that community servants will rise as leaders. They lead by example In the modern model of "church", leaders are those who order the servants. Amos knew he was a prophet altho a shepherd.... Certainly a prophet will recognize that the Lord is speaking through him but the moment he declares himself to be a prophet he is touching God's glory. A real prophet can not be prideful enough to do that.... There is a saying that goes like this: Question; Where is gold found? Answer: Wherever the gold is. Every person who has the Spirit of God within them has the gift of prophecy. They can speak the very words of God without even realizing it. That means anyone whom declares themself a "prophet" has elevated themself by self-declaration over the rest of us. Pride. Pure, simple, and ugly. Excuse me for a minute!! Now when we realize a call on our lives we do have a tendancy to say we are called to..... So now I hear you all saying to some degree we should not say we are a prophet even when we are called cause that is prideful or elevating ourselves? Please if God called me to prophecy and I did not go forth and proclaim His word for fear of being too prideful or whatever then not much is going to be said is it? What I am trying to say is GOD is speaking through HIS CHURCH which are all Born Again Believers. If we are listening we can all hear what HE is saying, Amen? Also we can all say what He is telling us. So let's listen and speak His words. He really is speaking to us children!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofJesus Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 362 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/04/1955 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die.. But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf.. All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it. How can you not see that you are only propping up further Mormon doctrine that goes against the Bible? We do not have OT prophets anymore, with the last one that could be close to an equivalent dying before Christ (John the Baptist). Do you not read the Bible? There were no more prophets after John the Baptist, huh? Acts 13: 1 "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers..." Acts 15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words..." Acts 21:10 "And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus..." 1 Cor 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers..." Eph 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit..." Eph 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Where in the Bible does it say we can not have modern day prophets? I am not critisizing anybody but my point view is dashed against the rocks because they don't want to open their eyes. I haven't seen anybody argue my point of view with scripture. I said there are not prophets such as there were in the OT, John the Baptist was the last one. Prophet, in a NT sense, means to reveal something and not necessarily to be a leader. Conversly, John Smith was a false prophet and a false teacher. This is why discernment is needed. How do you think the New Testament was written, By God telling them in their spirits what to write. We are still being told by the Spirit of God what to do if we are listening. He continues to give us direction and this is God speaking not just anyone. You all seem to want to put God in abox and think He can go no further than what you read, well what He is doing is going further than your understanding. Please quit boxing Him up. We are to be recieving revelation unto the end not just be satisfied with our own understanding there is much to learn in the Word and it goes deeper than just the words on the page, it involves the Holy Spirit to give you an understanding so you can recieve a word from God. So just listen and recieve!!!! Amen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 How do you think the New Testament was written, By God telling them in their spirits what to write. We are still being told by the Spirit of God what to do if we are listening. He continues to give us direction and this is God speaking not just anyone. You all seem to want to put God in abox and think He can go no further than what you read, well what He is doing is going further than your understanding. Please quit boxing Him up. We are to be recieving revelation unto the end not just be satisfied with our own understanding there is much to learn in the Word and it goes deeper than just the words on the page, it involves the Holy Spirit to give you an understanding so you can recieve a word from God. So just listen and recieve!!!! Amen? Woohoo! You Go!..that is and always what I have said..not too many listen..but in every word of what you just wrote is absolute Truth! Try not to get to bent out of shape..it will really frustrate you..but don't ever stop standing up for the Truth and Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 What do we do when someone who claims to be a prophet speaks forth and is proven wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 What do we do when a prophecy is given and is so full of generalities/sweeping statements that it could cover a whole range of events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 How do you think the New Testament was written, By God telling them in their spirits what to write. We are still being told by the Spirit of God what to do if we are listening. He continues to give us direction and this is God speaking not just anyone. You all seem to want to put God in abox and think He can go no further than what you read, well what He is doing is going further than your understanding. Please quit boxing Him up. We are to be recieving revelation unto the end not just be satisfied with our own understanding there is much to learn in the Word and it goes deeper than just the words on the page, it involves the Holy Spirit to give you an understanding so you can recieve a word from God. So just listen and recieve!!!! Amen? Woohoo! You Go!..that is and always what I have said..not too many listen..but in every word of what you just wrote is absolute Truth! Try not to get to bent out of shape with these guys..it will really frustrate you..but don't ever stop standing up for the Truth and Jesus! yes this is true if in proper context what we hear in the ear in darkness we are to shout upon the housetops for all to hear. We are to hearald the message of His coming. We are to warn We are to preach and teach and disciple We are to teach others to follow Christ as we ourselves follow him You can't do any of these things without the knowledge given from Holy Scriptures as so many are doing as the book of Jude says Clouds without water. Many today do not have substance from the word of God from which everything comes from. Divine revelation of God's Word doesn't come from a snap of a finger it takes the Spirit of God to quicken that word and make that truth found within the word come alive in your soul. This doesn't come from others dreams and visions into my life it may be that those visions and dreams may help them out but they do not impart divine truth from God's word nor reveal the hidden mysteries in the word they only tell me what is in their heads from the night. Not saying they don't have some truth but it is not divine truth for it only comes from the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit illuminating the Word of God unto me and unto my life by God Himself. I can get truth from others like teachers and preachers evangelist prophet etc. and I recognize it as truth being taught and proclaimed and can recieve in this fashion but it is still not the divine truth given and imparted unto me through the Spirit of God personally as I read and study His Word and He opens my understanding and the eyes of my understanding are then enlighten by revelation as something was previously hid but by God's help he makes it known to me. So in the proper context I would agree. Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Who needs a bible when WB has it's own on-line prophets, even if there are some mormons. I had some idea that prophets were humbled by the fact that God chose them to speak His word, and not to be chest thumpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 I am open to words from the Lord, but they must match up with scripture, and if they fail to come to pass, the Bible says such messages are the result of someone who is speaking presumptuously and that they are a false prophet. We need to be careful how far we take this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2006 Of course the teachings of ancient and modern day prophets are in line with past scripture. But to think that God has revealed everything to mankind or the Bible contains everything God has revealed to mankind is preposturous. During the time of the Old Testament, all the prophets were in line with their predecessors and yet they themselves added to existing scripture. If you don't believe God can reveal additional scripture then you would have rejected Moses as a prophet of God, you would have rejected, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. You would have rejected Peter for reveling that the Gospel could be preached to the Gentiles. You would have rejected John for his "crazy, outlandish" Book of Revelation It is a shame that people have this point of view Ephraimite..but they do..and they did and they will more..Jesus the Prophet spoke to them and said that some will be beaten, some will be thrown and prisons and others will die.. But as in the OT and the NT and today people are people and they are blind and deaf.. All prophets can do is keep speaking as God instructs and those who do not heed will pay the price for it. How can you not see that you are only propping up further Mormon doctrine that goes against the Bible? We do not have OT prophets anymore, with the last one that could be close to an equivalent dying before Christ (John the Baptist). Do you not read the Bible? There were no more prophets after John the Baptist, huh? Acts 13: 1 "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers..." Acts 15:32 "And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words..." Acts 21:10 "And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus..." 1 Cor 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers..." Eph 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit..." Eph 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Where in the Bible does it say we can not have modern day prophets? I am not critisizing anybody but my point view is dashed against the rocks because they don't want to open their eyes. I haven't seen anybody argue my point of view with scripture. I said there are not prophets such as there were in the OT, John the Baptist was the last one. Prophet, in a NT sense, means to reveal something and not necessarily to be a leader. Conversly, John Smith was a false prophet and a false teacher. This is why discernment is needed. How do you think the New Testament was written, By God telling them in their spirits what to write. We are still being told by the Spirit of God what to do if we are listening. He continues to give us direction and this is God speaking not just anyone. You all seem to want to put God in abox and think He can go no further than what you read, well what He is doing is going further than your understanding. Please quit boxing Him up. We are to be recieving revelation unto the end not just be satisfied with our own understanding there is much to learn in the Word and it goes deeper than just the words on the page, it involves the Holy Spirit to give you an understanding so you can recieve a word from God. So just listen and recieve!!!! Amen? Are you claiming that God is still speaking forth prophecies that are equal to scripture today, or only giving prophecies that must match up with scripture? If they are equal to scripture, then it would be proper to write those prophecies down in a book for the entire church world to have to preach from. That is, if that were the case, but I don't believe it is. I am open to words from the Lord, but they must match up with scripture, and if they fail to come to pass, the Bible says such messages are the result of someone who is speaking presumptuously and that they are a false prophet. We need to be careful how far we take this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted August 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Excuse me for a minute!! Now when we realize a call on our lives we do have a tendancy to say we are called to..... So now I hear you all saying to some degree we should not say we are a prophet even when we are called cause that is prideful or elevating ourselves? Please if God called me to prophecy and I did not go forth and proclaim His word for fear of being too prideful or whatever then not much is going to be said is it? What I am trying to say is GOD is speaking through HIS CHURCH which are all Born Again Believers. If we are listening we can all hear what HE is saying, Amen? Also we can all say what He is telling us. So let's listen and speak His words. He really is speaking to us children!!!! I agree! I have a question for those who keep saying that if a person knows or says he is a prophet or is called by God to prophesy that it is somehow and indication that the person truly is not a prophet of God or does not have the spiritual gift of prophecy or that it is prideful to state that God has given you a word for the church. What scriptures say that? I've never seen anyone back that up scripturally. Let me share with you what Paul says: Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God (Rom 1:1). Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God... (I Co. 1:1) Paul, an apostle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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