Question for Atheists/Agnostics/non-Christians...what troubles you?

[pamjane]

I guess "what troubles you" isn't really what I'm asking.

This is in response to emeraldgirl's topic about what questions and/or doubts Christians have about God, Christianity, or the Bible.

I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense.

to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

[secondeve]

Good question.

I've never had aything bother me along the lines of thinking that the specific God of the Christian Bible is real; for me, he's logically impossible. From time to time, though, I do wonder whether or not there might not be some kind of deity/being/whatever out there, subtly tweaking the odd historical string or making waves. Quite honestly? I believe all religions are wrong. If there is a god/s out there, while I think there's a chance that this could explain the human fascination with religion, I don't for an instant believe that any one faith has the right answers. That a being powerful enough to meddle in human affairs, possibly create us and/or life on this planet - and who wants us to act in a set way for whatever reason - would tolerate the entire historical march of other religions diluting his/her/its message seems ludicrous to me. Given what we can observe of the world, it seems far more likely to me that, if there is a power out there, benevolent or otherwise, then they are limited in their ability and/or desire to interact with this world. I'm more inclined to believe in the idea of life on other planets or the existence of other dimensions than I am to credit the concept of heaven or hell. I think my biggest problem with heaven is how boring it sounds. When I was still at school, the holidays were absolutely awesome to look forward to, and for the first few weeks, they outdid expectation. But after too much of getting everything I wanted, it got boring, so I and pretty much everyone else I knew secretly started to lookforward to going back to school. I think it's pretty much universal that, while we love respite and seek it out, it's the act of striving which makes us happy more often than not, and that conflict, while harsh and needful of being endured, can make us better people. This isn't to say I condone violence or anything like that; I'm saying that, as creatures, we're geared to deal with turmoil, and too long a period of not dealing with it makes us petulent, irritable, listless, demanding and bored. I can't imagine how tedious an eternity with having everything go my way would get; after a while, it seems, it would stop feeling like a reward and start feeling like a prison. In my hypotheticals, presuming there was a heaven and a hell after death and a deity was in charge of them, I sometimes think the concepts work better as waiting rooms - we die, go to either place to be rewarded or punnished depending on our actions, and when we've either rested enough or learned our lesson, we get reborn into the world as new individuals.

Of course, that isn't what I believe - I just like the idea of reincarnation more than anything else, because I love life. Anyway, I've rambled without answering the question. The kind of thing that makes me speculate on the idea of god or gods existing is stuff like beauty. We all have little things that tug at us because they're simple, or true, or beautiful; I can't see where we'd find the need to evolve that sense, or why. I get a sense sometimes that there's this amazing rhythm or profundity to things, and that makes me wonder. Sometimes I feel thankful for whatever forces, accidental or deliberate, let me into the world; I think the sentiment matters more than any sense of knowing to what or whom I'm directing it. I get really moved by certain lines in books and films. One I've always liked is from a Terry Pratchett book, called The Last Hero, which is comic fantasy, but also quite profound. There's a bit in it where these warriors have survived all these amazing battles and grown into old heroes, and their leader is sad, because they've seen everything the world has to offer - but they still want to keep going. And there's this line stolen and paraphrased from an old Earth historian (I can't remember who) that the warrior is thinking about: 'And Corialanus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.' That's how I feel sometimes - that there's so much world and so many things I want to do in it, and so many experiences I can't possibly have, that I wish I could live longer or more than once, just to try and fit them all in. I'm not sure if that's an answer, but it's as good as I can make it.

Edited July 20, 2006 by secondeve

[gekko]

hmm. interesting post secondeve. i'll take note of what you've said. thank you.

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although i could prove to you there is a God. (many christians say they can... hmm)

but without using the bible - and without using the term 'faith' - and without using anything to do with religion

if you're curious (or if anyone's curious) - PM me.

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you do have some valid points. although - you still dont know when you'll die.

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i will point this out though first with an illustration:

if i go to the top of the empire state building - and believe - convince myself that there is no such thing as gravity - and then go jump off.

what's going to happen to me? ----> KERSPLAT!!

yeah. i'll be dead - because gravity was still there.

here's what im getting at: what you believe in - or what you think is right for you - does not neglect the Truth.

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just some food for thought.

[Guest Worship!]

I guess "what troubles you" isn't really what I'm asking.

This is in response to emeraldgirl's topic about what questions and/or doubts Christians have about God, Christianity, or the Bible.

I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense.

to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

hello i in fact am an Atheist and what brings me to not worship under your beliefs is that i cannot fathom how one simple bieng could create this entire universe or that there cannot be one other single life form in all of space. also how could such and ever-loving god send things he "created" to a place to suffer for all eternity that have NO idea what your lord/saviour is. what kind of justice is that? how could he send a human to hell for not seeing it his way? isnt that what the communists did? if a person speaks badly of the leader they kill them? When a child is born he/she has no idea of these beliefs and he/she should die right after birth he/she goes to hell because he/she hadnt heard of your way? I ask why would your loving, just, god do this?

[Guest Tams]

I guess "what troubles you" isn't really what I'm asking.

This is in response to emeraldgirl's topic about what questions and/or doubts Christians have about God, Christianity, or the Bible.

I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense.

to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

hello i in fact am an Atheist and what brings me to not worship under your beliefs is that i cannot fathom how one simple bieng could create this entire universe or that there cannot be one other single life form in all of space. also how could such and ever-loving god send things he "created" to a place to suffer for all eternity that have NO idea what your lord/saviour is. what kind of justice is that? how could he send a human to hell for not seeing it his way? isnt that what the communists did? if a person speaks badly of the leader they kill them? When a child is born he/she has no idea of these beliefs and he/she should die right after birth he/she goes to hell because he/she hadnt heard of your way? I ask why would your loving, just, god do this?

Hi Gooday , whoever the Atheist is, this is not a judging, but i would like to clarify something, you say that if a child is born and they die, they will go straight to hell, you are incorrect that child does not have an understanding to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour or not, nor can they make a dession to say that he does not exsist. Whether you want to believe it or not ,God created that child. And He is a just God, but He is full of Love , do you think He would send a innocent baby to Hell. He would certainely NOT! That is a child he created that child if died would go straight to be with him. In heaven!

[sylvan3]

I don't know that there would be much that could get me to believe in the God of the Bible. I can't get past the first two pages without having SERIOUS doubts about the credibility due to the absolute mythical nature of the story.

As I have stated previously, when faced with the two choices as whether the Bible was divinely inspired or humanly inspired, it becomes blatantly obvious to me that the human imagination (I am quite sure that humans had some very active imaginations back then, as they do now--even more so) is a much more rational explanation for the fantasy-type story that exists.

[secondeve]

although i could prove to you there is a God. (many christians say they can... hmm)

but without using the bible - and without using the term 'faith' - and without using anything to do with religion

if you're curious (or if anyone's curious) - PM me.

gekko, I'm interested to hear what you have to say - although I can't PM you and you can't PM me, because of my status as a non-believer. If you'd like to email me, my address is philippa.grahame@gmail.com

you do have some valid points. although - you still dont know when you'll die.

I don't think anyone can know when they'll die. If you meant I can't be certain of what will happen once I'm dead, however - yes, that's true, but I accept it. It isn't a thought which causes me any distress, though I am curious about it. I've always liked Shakespeare's description: 'To die, to sleep - to sleep? Perchance to dream? Aye, there's the rub, for in this sleep of death what dreams may come?'

if i go to the top of the empire state building - and believe - convince myself that there is no such thing as gravity - and then go jump off.

what's going to happen to me? ----> KERSPLAT!!

yeah. i'll be dead - because gravity was still there.

here's what im getting at: what you believe in - or what you think is right for you - does not neglect the Truth.

This is true, but also not as relevant as it might seem. Here is a scenaio which I hope will explain why I say this:

A planet teeming with life contains over three thousand million people, not a single one of whom - despite their convictions - can resolutely prove to another what happens when they die. On this planet, death is a daily occurence. Throughout the course of history, from the earliest human civilizations to the most recent empires, there have been hundreds of thousands of religions, cults, sects, faiths and theories, all with believers, and all of which have sought, in one way or another, the answer to this question of life and death.

Because of all the other ideas present in each religion - and because each believes that it alone is right, and that everyone else is wrong - it is undeniably true that the vast majority of people throughout history are and have been wrong in their convictions; and there is still the chance that no one has ever got it right.

Each of these religions claims to be supported by things like miracles, scriptures, holy healings, divine prophecies, signs from their deity, pantheon or resident higher authority: each and every religion in history, from the lowliest cult to the mightiest faith, has offered up believers with personal testimonies which support the structure and conclusions of their order, to say nothing of the myriad people with less codified, more fringe beliefs, or those who have taken a particular, established system and given it an individual lacquer.

In the present day and age, hundreds of thousands of religions previously adhered to with passion, conviction and vehemence have faltered, cracked like a knucklebone under the weight of centuries and consigned to the realm of mythology. The first religions - those from the dawn of time, the caveman days and the more settled ages after - have never been known in full to the modern world; they died out too long ago. Although some believers of varying faiths dispute this, more people than not acknowledge that not one single faith alive today could be called, with historical verity, the first human religion, from which all other (arguably false) distortions have grown. We don't even know what the very first god was called; certainly, they had no holy book, because they existed before humans had learned how to write. They might have been one god alone, the head of a pantheon, or one of a triad; they could have been the only supernatural force in the world, or have existed alongside localized spirits and powers. They could have been female, male, an animal, anthropomorphised or without form; they could have had dominion over everything, or over a specific physical attribute, like lightning or thunder. We don't even know what the first believers thought happened when they died.

Imagine that you are an athiest, confronted with this riot of religion. Advocates of every faith offer you glory, honour, eternal salvation, and purport, in their own individual ways, to understand the secrets of the universe. As has been mentioned, there still is no proof, resolute and uncorrupted, of what happens after death. Do you pick a faith? Or do you think it more likely that, even if there is a god, there have been so many conflicting accounts of what constitutes the divine that it would be impossible to judge who, if anyone, had the right of it?

Edited July 21, 2006 by secondeve

[emeraldgirl]

Well said, secondeve. Your thoughts are similar to mine.

I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense.

to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

In Biblical terms, I believe the Resurrection either happened, or the Disciples and early Christians totally believed it did.

I believe in many aspects of God as portrayed in the Bible. (The positive ones. )

I believe in the moral excellance of many of Jesus' teachings.

[billie]

Well said, secondeve. Your thoughts are similar to mine.

I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense.

to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

In Biblical terms, I believe the Resurrection either happened, or the Disciples and early Christians totally believed it did.

I believe in many aspects of God as portrayed in the Bible. (The positive ones. )

I believe in the moral excellance of many of Jesus' teachings.

Emerald, I totally relate to what you just posted. Three years ago, I could've made the exact same post. All I will say is if you really want to know more of God, He will show you.

[emeraldgirl]

Emerald, I totally relate to what you just posted. Three years ago, I could've made the exact same post. All I will say is if you really want to know more of God, He will show you.

Very kind of you to say so. I wonder if you'd like to share your story with me. You'll have to e-mail me, though; you can't pm me, so here it is for the whole world to see: (edit)

Edited July 21, 2006 by IslandRose