Anne Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 I won't say a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 I will answer that for you dood but you will probably accuse me again of hijaking the thread. Christ who was born of a virgin Mary was born into this world just like you and I was born into the world and we were subject to vanity Christ himself was a man who was subject to vanity just as we are yet he sinned not but was in all points tempted by the serpent just as we are if you will recall the forty days in the wilderness Jesus was tempted by Satan but Jesus did not sin. Jesus was then subjected to the cross and defeated death hell and the grave and took the keys back from Satan and this brought us Hope as Jesus was resurrected on the third day. As Christ triumped over the enemy and defeated death. And because of it we ourselves will be also resurrected from the dead. So this is how the creature was subjected to vanity and how we are also saved by hope. As death will have no sting for the believers. So it was the will or plan of God to send His only begotten Son into this world for this very purpose as Christ subjected himself willingly to the will of the Father For this is the believers hope as Jesus told doubting Thomas after his reserrection as Thomas has said that he would not believe Jesus was resurrected unless he could thrust his finger in the nails prints and his side. When Jesus showed up Jesus said to Thomas for him to thrust his hand in his side and put his finger in the nail prints. Then Jesus said blessed are those whom have not seen and yet have believed. I have never seen Jesus I just believe the report and I believe and this is my blessed hope. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Oh I can. I have lots of subjects up my sleave. How about how we were made subject to hope the same way we were made subject to vanity? Don't tempt me hahahaha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 I need some coffee before I answer this.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 coffee yes that sounds really good right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Okay let's try and answer this by rewording the question, if that's okay dood: what does Paul mean when he speaks of the following? Romans chapter 8 verses 20 - 24 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pan togther until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? The underlined scripture is what dood is querying, but I thought it probably best to include the wholes scripture part, as I disliked splitting or dividing I want to turn this around a bit dood and ask you to explain to me what you think/believe the following are with regards to this scripture:- 1. What do you believe the creature to be? 2. What is the vanity spoken of in relation to the creature? I don't want to really press any further until I understand how you view the creature and what the vanity was, sorry, I do have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 I will answer that for you dood but you will probably accuse me again of hijaking the thread. Christ who was born of a virgin Mary was born into this world just like you and I was born into the world and we were subject to vanity Christ himself was a man who was subject to vanity just as we are yet he sinned not but was in all points tempted by the serpent just as we are if you will recall the forty days in the wilderness Jesus was tempted by Satan but Jesus did not sin. Jesus was then subjected to the cross and defeated death hell and the grave and took the keys back from Satan and this brought us Hope as Jesus was resurrected on the third day. As Christ triumped over the enemy and defeated death. And because of it we ourselves will be also resurrected from the dead. So this is how the creature was subjected to vanity and how we are also saved by hope. As death will have no sting for the believers. So it was the will or plan of God to send His only begotten Son into this world for this very purpose as Christ subjected himself willingly to the will of the Father For this is the believers hope as Jesus told doubting Thomas after his reserrection as Thomas has said that he would not believe Jesus was resurrected unless he could thrust his finger in the nails prints and his side. When Jesus showed up Jesus said to Thomas for him to thrust his hand in his side and put his finger in the nail prints. Then Jesus said blessed are those whom have not seen and yet have believed. I have never seen Jesus I just believe the report and I believe and this is my blessed hope. OC With that said. Christ dying on the cross was a physical, Biological circumstance, which had to stem from a thought. The thought had to have come from a will, the will had to come from a essence. That essence had to have a need for christ to be able to die on the cross? What was the need of the essence I ask, was it because people are evil and needed a saviour? Or was it because people were confused in which turn triggered the evil deeds? Answering evil is right, I wish to look beyond the evil and view those triggers. Are you with me? dood, mankind did fall and therefore needed a Savior it did stem from a thought and that thought was the will of God. Christ was a spotless sacrifice that was needed in order to appease or satisfy the wrath of God. Jesus Christ was the only person who had never sinned neither was guile found in his mouth as the word says. He was the perfect sacrifice without spot or blemish the spotless lamb of God. There was no sacrifice that mankind could offer in exchange for his sins as all were condemned of God from the fall in the garden. And in the plan and will of God who is a Sovereign God who does what is pleasing to Him as He is the Creator and we are his created beings chose to send his only Son into this world to be that spotless sacrifice that would satisfy Him and give mankind a blessed hope to all who will come freely and put their trust in that sacrifice that God gave unto us so we could inherit the blessed gift of eternal life. It was because mankind was evil and needed a Saviour that is the "what", the "will" the "essence" and the Sovereignty of God the Father oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrose Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,580 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/13/1960 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Great posts Everyone, I don't have a comment..... .... for now Please help I think i'm gonna pass out..................what do you mean you have no comment!!!!!! Just give him some time, Anne. He'll be back, guns blazing! Oh I can. I have lots of subjects up my sleave. How about how we were made subject to hope the same way we were made subject to vanity? Don't tempt me hahahaha!! Okay, let's look at this vanity thing. Does it mean I'm vain by wearing a bit of makeup to make me look healthier and well, younger and fresher? Hope and vanity are two different realms dood. But I'll wait... I'm paitient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribulation Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) Alright you all asked for it. I'm popping a new one into this thread. So we were subjected to vanity with the tree of good and evil. Forced to fall, choose to fall. Either way we did fall. Likewise he subjected us to hope. What I don't understand is, how could someone actually choose to do evil all the way to the end, or choose to avoid God all the way to the end or be evil through and through when/if we were forced to have hope like it or not. If this is not true and were not forced to have hope what is paul talking about? why did he correlate it to the tree of knowledge of good and evil in Romans. KJV: Romans 8 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? dood, I might need you to explain this one to me! What is your query? Are you asking - that because we're subject to hope - why do we do evil? Or are you asking if we're subject to hope at all? I'm confused! Edited August 29, 2006 by Tribulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribulation Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 I'm still not entirely sure what your query is!! But I'll have a stab at answering! The scripture to me says were subject to hope, and also says we are subject to vanity. This piece also says If you can actually see what it is you hope for then it's not hope. To clearify the difference between hope and want, You can't hope for something that exists, You can want it, desire. You can't hope for a bag of potato chips then go buy some lol. Okay, I get you. Hope can also be described as a 'longing' for something. (e.g. 'I hope to go to heaven'). How many times have you heard the unsaved say - 'I hope I go to heaven'. They hope to go to heaven, because they don't have true salvation and are unsure of their outcome after they die. From the start, anyone who believes in God and knows about the eternity of heaven and hell will probably hope to go heaven. And it's that very hope that drives many of us to get saved and make sure of our outcome. So, This is why Paul says "For we are saved by hope". You hope to see the glory of god, this would be a unknown correct? Mmmm... the answer to this question is Yes AND No. I believe Paul is saying in this passage that if we have true salvation - we do not need to hope for it. For if we have true salvation - we are garaunteed a place in heaven and therefore we have no need to hope for it because we will surely see the glory of God. This is why Paul says in Romans 8:4 - "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Which is basically saying - 'We've been saved because we longed for an assurance heaven - And if you have something - you no longer need to hope for it!' However, in the case of those who have not yet recieved true salvation - they still hope to see the glory of God. Does this answer your question? Or have I missed the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts