Is faith enough to save us from Hell?

[Floatingaxe]

Faith alone was the one thing that saved the thief on the cross.

Blessings!

[Smalcald]

Well we don't need to go around on it we are specifically told that we are totally justified by faith alone totally separate from any works we may do. In fact those who attempt to find salvation through their works, who attempted to be justified by them have fallen from grace, this is shown directly both in Galatians and Ephesians.

James is making a very good point though, faith without works is dead, but dead faith is really not faith. I guess we could call it a dead faith, and maybe we should think about what dead faith means. Faith I think gets kind of a bum rap sometimes. The faith that is spoken of in Galatians, in Ephesians and in Romans, is a faith which is much much more than simply belief, or an intellectual belief, simply saying yes I believe and accept Christ as my Lord and Savior, no it is much much more than that, than some sort of quick trick or even an emotional experience, that you believe is true. We cannot think our way to faith; it is a Holy Work created in us by the Holy Spirit. Good works burst forth faith is alive and working all of the time, we don't need to worry about faith or works, faith cannot help but do the good works that God already prepared for us to do.

I do believe that indeed we are warned that we must be on guard against the dead faith, and must cling to the true faith and to pray for that true faith because if God does not create this faith inside of us, it won

[Thaddaeus]

Antz,

In studying scripture you are on the right track with the insight regarding the tenses used. They are very relevant. However, there is not really two salvations, so much as there are aspects or parts to our salvation. The entire Plan of Salvation is inclusive of all the aspects and it is reaching for the goal.

Now, for scripture using the verses you have already used.

Eph 2:8. It is indeed past tense. This is referencing the Work of Christ on the Cross. Christ the redeemer of sinners. Christ the Savior of the world. Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

This ties in with Rom 11:32 where it speaks about God consigning all men to disobedience so that He could show mercy upon all. This was done by the judgement against Adam. The curse of death and resultant sin. Then a verse such as Rom 5:18 which is that Christ, being the second Adam restored or corrected, redeemed, reconciled mankind to God through Christ. This refers to the correction that Christ brought life to mankind to overcome the death of Adam.

Man cannot have a relationship with God, a union with God, which is our created purpose or existance if man is not going to be immortal. By Christ's death on the Cross, and death only, Christ could have provided the atonement for our sins, but it would not have provided for and eternal existance. Man would have still died. Christ's resurrection is the key to the whole plan of salvation, (See I Cor 15) Without the resurrection all would still be in vain.

This second Work of Christ on the Cross, is the atonement. He offers this to those who believe. Since we still exist in this world in our fallenness, we will still sin, and thus the need to have forgiveness of sins.

Rom 5:9 is speaking about this first aspect but shows that there is also a second one. Because we have been reconiled to God by Christ, justified, or made right with God, by His blood. Vs 10 spells it out even more vividly. We are reconciled by His blood, we are saved by His Life. We live in that Life. The phrase "Being In Christ" is that we can live IN Him because He now lives, was resurrected. We are spiritually resurrected with Him through baptism.

As believers, having "put on Christ" we have been made Sons of God. We are heirs to the promise of eternal life with Him. That promise is not consumated until the end. I Pet 1:5.

We are justified by faith, but we are saved through faith. Our living relationship in this life as a believer is the phrase Paul is using, "being saved". It refers to our personal salvation of our souls. This second aspect is meaningless without the first, namely the Work of Christ on the Cross to correct, or overturn the judgement of Adam against mankind.

If we indeed, as beleivers endure to the end, we shall inherit those promises. If we are faithful, He is faithful. If we deny Him, He will deny us. The salvation of our souls is a synergistic, mutual, personal relationship with Christ. It is really even more than that, we are ontologically, IN Christ. We exist IN Him, and internal relationship.

Hope that helps in clarifiying the tenses. We have been saved as human beings, our eternal existance has been restored, we are being saved relative to our souls, which will be consumated at the end where one can then say, he has been saved, IF we remained faithful to HIM.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Thaddaeus

[cjrose]

Faith alone was the one thing that saved the thief on the cross.

Blessings!

Faith alone for the woman who thought if she simply touched a piece of Jesus' robe, she would be healed and she was.

[RGR]

Same ole, same ole I see. Oh well, back to Hee-Haw!

[Thaddaeus]

Cirose,

Faith alone for the woman who thought if she simply touched a piece of Jesus' robe, she would be healed and she was.

I'm not sure what you mean in reply to Floatingaxe. If you are complementing his quote or speaking against it. But the fact is, scripturally you can never separate faith and works. I took this whole evening to read this post and everything between page 2 and 15, so far got bogged down in the arguement over faith/works.

Even the quote of Floatingaxe relative to the thief was not faith alone.

If I can use a story to illustrate.

If as an individual you read about the large air balloons that fire fighters use on occasions on to which people jump and see that they are indeed saved. You can on the basis of that information believe that it is a reliable tool, it can and does save.

But, unfortunately, you live on the 20th floor and a fire is raging outside of your door, soon to be upon you. The fire fighters are inflating the balloon. It has been completed and they tell you to jump. This is where faith meets the test. If you really have faith, then you will jump without question. But if it you do not, you will not jump.

What you are saying in separating faith and works, is that this person will still be saved, even though they will not jump. Faith alone saves.

On the other hand, James tells us that no faith, or dead faith is worthless. It will not save you. One must act out that faith. Works is evidence of that faith. We are saved through faith, which means works. I Pet 1:5 is the best text along with many others. Every example of faith in the Bible is backed by works. Starting with the Father of faith, Abraham. He acted upon His faith. Rahab did the same, and on and on. If they had not acted, their faith would be non-existant, dead, worthless.

[cjrose]

Cirose,

Faith alone for the woman who thought if she simply touched a piece of Jesus' robe, she would be healed and she was.

I'm not sure what you mean in reply to Floatingaxe. If you are complementing his quote or speaking against it. But the fact is, scripturally you can never separate faith and works. I took this whole evening to read this post and everything between page 2 and 15, so far got bogged down in the arguement over faith/works.

Even the quote of Floatingaxe relative to the thief was not faith alone.

If I can use a story to illustrate.

If as an individual you read about the large air balloons that fire fighters use on occasions on to which people jump and see that they are indeed saved. You can on the basis of that information believe that it is a reliable tool, it can and does save.

But, unfortunately, you live on the 20th floor and a fire is raging outside of your door, soon to be upon you. The fire fighters are inflating the balloon. It has been completed and they tell you to jump. This is where faith meets the test. If you really have faith, then you will jump without question. But if it you do not, you will not jump.

What you are saying in separating faith and works, is that this person will still be saved, even though they will not jump. Faith alone saves.

On the other hand, James tells us that no faith, or dead faith is worthless. It will not save you. One must act out that faith. Works is evidence of that faith. We are saved through faith, which means works. I Pet 1:5 is the best text along with many others. Every example of faith in the Bible is backed by works. Starting with the Father of faith, Abraham. He acted upon His faith. Rahab did the same, and on and on. If they had not acted, their faith would be non-existant, dead, worthless.

Firstly there was a woman who was bleeding for twelve years, as Jesus was being persecuted she had so much faith that He is who He says He is that if she simply touched the hem of His garment, she would be healed.

Secondly axe is a sister, my friend. And I don't relate to any worldly fables about faith, my faith comes as a gift from God because I believe He sacraficed His Son JESUS on the cross to bear my sins.

I have never said anything about separating faith and works except that you cannot get to Heaven by works alone. When you become a believer and receive the faith God so freely gives it gives us a sense of honor to do good works for Him.

Yes, faith alone saves you, not works. Without faith your good deeds will not save you. Your post is very confusing to say the least but I hope I have cleared up some things for you. Again when you recieve faith by becoming a child of God then wanting to do good works is a given. It becomes a part of our love for others that make us want to help or as you say do good works.

What is dead faith and where in the world did you get that from? We walk by faith, not by sight. But I will say one thing, if I were on the top floor of a burning building I would jump regardless because I know by faith that God would be with me and when this body dies, He is there waiting.

[Guest shiloh357]

Cirose,

Faith alone for the woman who thought if she simply touched a piece of Jesus' robe, she would be healed and she was.

I'm not sure what you mean in reply to Floatingaxe. If you are complementing his quote or speaking against it. But the fact is, scripturally you can never separate faith and works. I took this whole evening to read this post and everything between page 2 and 15, so far got bogged down in the arguement over faith/works.

Even the quote of Floatingaxe relative to the thief was not faith alone.

If I can use a story to illustrate.

If as an individual you read about the large air balloons that fire fighters use on occasions on to which people jump and see that they are indeed saved. You can on the basis of that information believe that it is a reliable tool, it can and does save.

But, unfortunately, you live on the 20th floor and a fire is raging outside of your door, soon to be upon you. The fire fighters are inflating the balloon. It has been completed and they tell you to jump. This is where faith meets the test. If you really have faith, then you will jump without question. But if it you do not, you will not jump.

What you are saying in separating faith and works, is that this person will still be saved, even though they will not jump. Faith alone saves.

On the other hand, James tells us that no faith, or dead faith is worthless. It will not save you. One must act out that faith. Works is evidence of that faith. We are saved through faith, which means works. I Pet 1:5 is the best text along with many others. Every example of faith in the Bible is backed by works. Starting with the Father of faith, Abraham. He acted upon His faith. Rahab did the same, and on and on. If they had not acted, their faith would be non-existant, dead, worthless.

Nice try, but this is wrong where salvation is concerned. The above completely misrepresents the nature and plan of salvation.

Salvation is by grace through faith. Everyone including you, seems to focus on the "faith" part, while ignoring the grace aspect. Faith and words are separated from the attainment of salvation because we are saved by grace through faith. Grace highlightss the truth that salvation is a gift. Romans 6:23 tells us that unlike sin which has wages (earned payment) eternal life through Jesus is a free gift. There are no earned gifts. Gifts are always free.

James is speaking of works done as fruit of a true profession of faith, the result of salvation not the attainment of it. Our works demonstrate the authenticity of our justification which we have already received. I don't think it can be made much simpler. Our works justify us and our profession in the sight of men. We are NOT saved by a synthesis of faith and works. Paul makes this clear Rom 3:20-22, Rom 3:26, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Rom 8:3; Joh 3:14-18, John 5:24, John 6:40; Acts 13:38, Acts 13:39; 1Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:8, Gal. 3:11-14, Gal. 3:24; Eph. 2:8,9; Phil. 3:9; Titus 3:7.

Our works are never good enough to save us because tainted with sin. The only works that save us are the works of Christ upon the cross.

[antz]

Cirose,

Faith alone for the woman who thought if she simply touched a piece of Jesus' robe, she would be healed and she was.

I'm not sure what you mean in reply to Floatingaxe. If you are complementing his quote or speaking against it. But the fact is, scripturally you can never separate faith and works. I took this whole evening to read this post and everything between page 2 and 15, so far got bogged down in the arguement over faith/works.

Even the quote of Floatingaxe relative to the thief was not faith alone.

If I can use a story to illustrate.

If as an individual you read about the large air balloons that fire fighters use on occasions on to which people jump and see that they are indeed saved. You can on the basis of that information believe that it is a reliable tool, it can and does save.

But, unfortunately, you live on the 20th floor and a fire is raging outside of your door, soon to be upon you. The fire fighters are inflating the balloon. It has been completed and they tell you to jump. This is where faith meets the test. If you really have faith, then you will jump without question. But if it you do not, you will not jump.

What you are saying in separating faith and works, is that this person will still be saved, even though they will not jump. Faith alone saves.

On the other hand, James tells us that no faith, or dead faith is worthless. It will not save you. One must act out that faith. Works is evidence of that faith. We are saved through faith, which means works. I Pet 1:5 is the best text along with many others. Every example of faith in the Bible is backed by works. Starting with the Father of faith, Abraham. He acted upon His faith. Rahab did the same, and on and on. If they had not acted, their faith would be non-existant, dead, worthless.

Nice try, but this is wrong where salvation is concerned. The above completely misrepresents the nature and plan of salvation.

Salvation is by grace through faith. Everyone including you, seems to focus on the "faith" part, while ignoring the grace aspect. Faith and words are separated from the attainment of salvation because we are saved by grace through faith. Grace highlightss the truth that salvation is a gift. Romans 6:23 tells us that unlike sin which has wages (earned payment) eternal life through Jesus is a free gift. There are no earned gifts. Gifts are always free.

James is speaking of works done as fruit of a true profession of faith, the result of salvation not the attainment of it. Our works demonstrate the authenticity of our justification which we have already received. I don't think it can be made much simpler. Our works justify us and our profession in the sight of men. We are NOT saved by a synthesis of faith and works. Paul makes this clear Rom 3:20-22, Rom 3:26, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1, Rom 8:3; Joh 3:14-18, John 5:24, John 6:40; Acts 13:38, Acts 13:39; 1Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:8, Gal. 3:11-14, Gal. 3:24; Eph. 2:8,9; Phil. 3:9; Titus 3:7.

Our works are never good enough to save us because tainted with sin. The only works that save us are the works of Christ upon the cross.

ULTIMATELY STILL, YOU NEED TO INCORPORATE YOUR FAITH WITH WORKS... FAITH ALONE WOULD NOT SAVE YOU... Why... although almost everything has been said by Kansas, to those who still don't understand read this...

it is a Biblical truth that GOD WANTS EVERYBODY TO BE SAVE and i hope no one would contest that...

I Timothy 2:3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth.

Then why He can't just give that grace to everybody without choice so everybody will be saved since God wants everybody to be saved???

Because you need to ACCEPT THE GRACE. From the very moment you ACCEPTED Jesus, that ACCEPTANCE is a work together with faith that will make you saved... even if you have faith but if you did not accept Jesus you will not be saved. FAITH WITHOUT WORK IS DEAD!!!

Eventhough gifts are free, you need to accept it otherwise it would not be yours...

[antz]

Faith alone was the one thing that saved the thief on the cross.

Blessings!

FAITH ALONE????

He speaks...

HE SPEAK OUT THAT FAITH AND THAT MADE HIM SAVED!!!

That is the ACT/WORK that he had made together with faith and made him saved...