Tribulation Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2006 Fellow believers, A question that has often bugged me - and is troubling me currently, is the interpretation of God's Word. Now, 'the interpretation of God's Word' is a very big subject, but I want to look at one part in particular. I want to know if God's word can affect people in different ways. For example - Luke 15:1 - Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. Now, for anyone living on those times - A publican was somebody who collected toals and taxes. However, nowadways - a publican is somebody who is landlord of a pub or inn. I remember a minister telling a story once, where a verse similar to this came up during his preaching. At the end of the meeting - the landlord of a local pub came up to him and admitted to the minister that he felt convicted of his sins because of the message preached and in particular the verse that had came up. So, does God use his Word and allow it to be interpreted differently from the original meaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 23, 2006 As far as interpretation goes, I believe the original meaning is the one we should go with. HOWEVER,(not yelling, just emphasis )when we study the Bible individually, at home, alone, Holy Spirit is speaking to us through the Word, a message or "interpretation", if you will, that's meant only for us. It's kind of like how we can read through the Bible numerous times, and each time find new things we hadn't noticed before. It's because Holy Spirit's drawing our attention to certain things. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Fellow believers, A question that has often bugged me - and is troubling me currently, is the interpretation of God's Word. Now, 'the interpretation of God's Word' is a very big subject, but I want to look at one part in particular. I want to know if God's word can affect people in different ways. For example - Luke 15:1 - Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. Now, for anyone living on those times - A publican was somebody who collected toals and taxes. However, nowadways - a publican is somebody who is landlord of a pub or inn. I remember a minister telling a story once, where a verse similar to this came up during his preaching. At the end of the meeting - the landlord of a local pub came up to him and admitted to the minister that he felt convicted of his sins because of the message preached and in particular the verse that had came up. So, does God use his Word and allow it to be interpreted differently from the original meaning? It is important to realize that there is only one interpretation, but many applications. Every Scripture has a literal meaning and only one intent of the author, but that does not mean that the Lord cannot minister that Scripture to you to meet a certain need. That brings up another point. Sometimes people argue needlessly over what a passage means because God used it differently each of their lives, and they mistake the application for the interpretation itself. Interpretation requires us to use proper rules of literary analysis in order to arrive at the proper understanding. Interpretation is not a matter conscience. It is a matter of recognizing the meaning and intent that the author is trying to convey. The Bible uses various literary devices and this cannot be overlooked when examining Scripture. We do not treat a prophecy like a parable, we do not treat proverb like prose. When figures of speech or any kind of figurative devices are used, it is incumbant upon the reader to understand the device employed, and the literal meaning behind the device. For example, Jesus told us that if our right hand offends us or causes us to sin, we are to cut it off. He said that if our right eye causes us to sin we should pluck it out, because it is better to enter heaven maimed than to remain whole, and go to hell. Careful examination of the text reveals that Jesus meant that we are remove those things in our lives that hinder our walk and work within the Kingdom of God. If there is a habit, vice, or association that is hindering our relationship with the Lord, we are to remove it. Just remember what I said, that you must keep in mind the distinction between application and interpretation. There is only ONE interpretation, but there can be many applications. I am not ignoring the role that the Holy Spirit plays, either. Studying the Bible is as much an intellectual pursuit as it is a spiritual one. It is important to study prayerfully and allow the Lord to minister to you as you study. Studying the Bible can be an adventure, you never know what you are going to learn from one day to the next. The Holy Spirit is able to bring things to light that you could not see otherwise. Through prayer and the use of proper interpretation techniques, we treat the Bible with the respect and honor it deserves as God's Word. When we honor God's Word, we honor the Lord. It says in Psalms that God has exalted His Word above His very name. It may be that many people don't get much from the Bible, because they don't honor it the way they should. As a result they don't receive the wisdom they could otherwise receive from thoughtful prayerful study and meditation upon words of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2006 Both River and Shiloh are correct. There is only ONE interpretation to any verse of Scripture--the one that was originally intended by the Author and the human agent. There may be many APPLICATIONS, however, for us. The orthodox doctrine of the inspiration (verbal plenary) of Scripture says that only the original autographs are inspired by G-d. Divine inspiration does not extend to any translation. Since the original languages are very complicated to translate, there may in fact be many words that can be translated in various ways depending on the education, opinion, theological biases of the translator. That's why most modern versions are translated by boards rather than by one individual, and why the NIV in particular is footnoted with alternate renderings of certain words or phrases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I agree with most of what Shilo has said but not river (but I don't want to tar and feather you This does bring up a deep issue that I see creeping up both on this board and in general and is very troubling to me. That issue is the ability of a lay person to read the bible in English translation and know the Word of God and know doctrine from that reading. What I see happening is that often we are saying that NO translation of the bible we currently have is accurate (I think that is River's point), thus you cannot form ANY doctrine based on our current English bible translations. You might if you know Greek be able to read the New Testament, but only if you know Greek, otherwise you don't really understand the New Testament. Really only multi-language academic biblical scholars can truly understand the bible. I would vehemently disagree with this approach. It takes us back to a time of the closed bible, when only a learned Priest was allowed to read the bible in Latin, and then would dispense the wisdom to the masses. Today the scholar would stand in that place blocking the Word of God. The fact is we have VERY good English translations today which totally capture the meaning and intent of the original Greek New Testament (the Old is more difficult but is still is captured accurately). Can we disagree on the meaning of these passages in good faith? Yes I think so particularly on modern problems and their application to scripture, we may come to different conclusions. But indeed the English translations we have today, (KJ, NKJ,and NIV) are all very accurate and are the Word of God and can and should be understood as such. When they speak plainly they are doctrine and should be used as such. In fact the scholars which have collaborated on these translations did an excellent job, and the plain meaning of that text is actually MORE accurate than any of us trying to interpret the Greek if indeed we know Greek. I would always go with the English translation over my own understanding of Greek, or anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I have learned that there never is a perfect translation of another language. I figured this out when I took French and Spanish in high school. There are words and phrases contained within a language that are particular to the language. In translating, you have to chose between literal words and the meaning. Often you have to change the literal word to express the meaning - or it doesn't make sense. Consider, how would this translate into another language: Definition of politics: Poly meaning "many" and ticks meaning "blood-sucking parasites" So politics are "many blood sucking parasites." How about the definition of an expert: Ex meaning "former" and pert meaning "a pressurized drop of liquid" So an expert is "a has been drip under pressure." I am sure there a better examples I could use, but run through a list of puns yourself and ask, "Could this be understandably translated into another language?" And that's just puns. How about other phrases? ("a New York minute" for instance?) I've read a book that tries to explore Jesus' teachings through the eyes of Hebrew culture at His time, and it shows how our translations cannot accurately portray the meaning of the message - you have to explain the cultural context of the expression in order to truly understand it, no matter how "well" you translate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls have provided much light on the accuracy of our modern translations. The complete book of Isaiah which is on display in Israel gives testimony to the accuracy of our current English translation Furthermore there are other historical writings which come to us from other languages (The writings of Greek philosophers and other ancient historians) , and for which we have LESS copies than we do of the Bible Yet, their writings are never challenged as to their accuracy. It seems odd that the Bible is challenged on this issue when it has more observable manuscript evidence than its ancient counterparts. We have over 24,000 New Testament manuscripts or partial manuscripts going back to within something like 125 years of when the originals would have been penned. We have enough manuscript evidence to support the accuracy of the Bible. This combined with archeological verification of cities and events that occurred in Bible times and modern fulfillment of prophecy regarding the rebirth of Israel, all testify to the amazing accuracy of the Bible. The problem is that when there are doctrines or precepts in the Bible, we don't want to face up to, we are required to cast doubt on the Bible's accuracy as a way of justifying our revulsion at those things in the Bible we find distasteful. The reason that Evolutionists, Homosexuals, Atheists/Agnostics, Muslims, and others of various religions attempt to find "contradictions" or "inaccuracies" in the Bible, is because it justifies their stance against the Bible and what it says about their sin, and their false religion. If, for example, one can successfully challenge what the Bible says about the origin of the universe, one he/she might feel that he/she has a suitable platform erected to challenge what the Bible says about his/her sin. That is what it all boils down to. Sin is the issue. There is nothing wrong with our translations, and whether one reads the NIV, KJV, ESV, NASV, or whatever, sin is still sin, Jesus is still both God and Lord, and He is still coming back to judge the living and the dead. Translations don't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2006 Can you imagine how awesome it would be to see or touch (much less comprehend the language) original books of the Bible written on stone tablets or lambskin? I have a friend who inherited her family Russian Bible which was what I imagine a couple hundred years old. I was there when she opened the shipping box and it was an experience I'll never forget. It was HUGE and roughly leather bound. The smell, feel, and weight of this Bible was so rich as rustic of a state it was in. All I could do was wonder how many people and prayers had been affected by this precious book. No kiddin River! How many indeed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Contrary to your theory there is not a conspiracy behind every concern someone has over a Biblical translation. Who said anything about a conspiracy? The fact is that no other book is as publicly criticized or labeled as inaccurate, as the Bible. The Bible is very unique among ancient writings. What I am saying is that those challenge the Bible's accuracy do not challenge the ancient historical writings that we have available to us in in far fewer copies. It is not a conspiracy. Many devout Christians are having an ongoing discussion right now in the Controversial Forum regarding the role of women in the Bible from the Book of Timothy. That is really beside the issue. There are issues over which reasonable people disagree, but as Marnie stated, much of it has to do with the skill and education of the reader/translator. Whether one is "devout" really does not play into the issue. No one's sincerity is being challenged. I was simply addressing the emptiness of the "translation" argument. There is nothing wrong with the modern translations we have in our possession, as the doctrinal integrity of the Bible remains intact, even if the wording is not alike. The Bible as we hold it dear is not black and white. Nor is the individuals personal; relationship with Christ. Yes the Bible is black and white. There is only one way of salvation, Jesus. The Bible declares to us what sin is, and is unbending in its claims. One cannot argue that the Bible can serve as a moral guide and then in the same breath, assert the doctrinal ambiguity of the Bible. Truth is not evasive, it is not hiding in corner somewhere. The Bible is a light and lamp. If someone is the foremost authority on all things Biblical and has God's authority to be the human judge of another Christians soul then let them step forward. And may they bring with them the evidence to back up their accreditations. No one is acting as "human judge" on someone else's soul, however we are permitted to judge those things God has already judged. God has already pronounced judgement on sin, and we are permitted to agree with His judgement. That does not make us judges, it just makes us faithful to Him. We are permitted to turn to the pages of the Bible and whatever God calls sin, we call it sin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribulation Posted August 23, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Oh dear! It seems every topic I start - ends up in a 'bible debate'!! Anyway - time to throw another question/situation into the mix... A young male is worried that his current relationship with a girl is not in the Lord's will and so they pray to the Lord about it and ask him to show his will! After some intense Bible reading, searching for answers, the boy comes across this verse - Proverbs 4:13 - "Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life." Now - the verse is actually talking about the goodness of having instruction in your life and refers to 'instruction' in feminine terms - 'she' and 'her'. HOWEVER, the boy reads into the verse - 'Do not let her go, keep her; for she is thy life' and believes that this is referring to his current situation and God has spoken to him. So what's the case here? Has God spoken to him through an alternate meaning of the verse - or has the boy read into it too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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