Openly Curious Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2006 I am curious to what others opinions are relating to this verse of scripture it is found in John 20:23--"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." I have my own thoughts in my own study on this verse but I want others views about it so I can see if my own studies surrounding this verse is balanced. thank you in advance for your thoughts on this. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebmilc Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 204 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/07/1949 Share Posted September 3, 2006 (edited) I am curious to what others opinions are relating to this verse of scripture it is found in John 20:23--"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." I have my own thoughts in my own study on this verse but I want others views about it so I can see if my own studies surrounding this verse is balanced. thank you in advance for your thoughts on this. OC Hi OC. For what they are worth here are my thoughts on this passage of Scripture. First of all I have to say what I don't believe this verse to mean, and that is that we as Christians have the power to justify a person from His/Her sins so that they are born again. Only God can do that. One interpretation of this passage of scripture would say that Jesus is teaching that if we fail to witness to others, we are retaining their sins unto them, and if we do share His love with others we are remitting their sins. Now although there may be some truth in that interpretation as I understand it this is not what the passage is teaching. I lean to the fact that this verse is dealing with the temporal effects that sin has on a persons life. Sin pays a wage, and that wage not only results eventually in death it also destroys us emotionally and physically in this life too. I believe that it is this present consequence of sin in our lives that Jesus gives us the power to remit. (1) Through the faithfull preaching of the Gospel and their acceptance of it we can remit a persons sin even though they have sown to the flesh and deserve to reap corruption (Gal 6:8). By accepting the Gospel they will not reap that which they have sown. (2) Through intercession we can also remit a persons sin through loosing them from the bondage of satan and praying that they may see the light and repent. However it must be said that there are times when people need to be made painfully aware of the consequences of their sin when under the discipline of God and it is in this sense that we have the power to retain sin, that is to withdraw our intercession in the hope that by reaping what they sow this will cause them to turn back to a loving God. This is how I understand the passage. Edited September 3, 2006 by Rebmilc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2006 You may find some of the answers here. Yours in Christ Jesus, Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 I am curious to what others opinions are relating to this verse of scripture it is found in John 20:23--"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." I have my own thoughts in my own study on this verse but I want others views about it so I can see if my own studies surrounding this verse is balanced. thank you in advance for your thoughts on this. OC Hi OC. For what they are worth here are my thoughts on this passage of Scripture. First of all I have to say what I don't believe this verse to mean, and that is that we as Christians have the power to justify a person from His/Her sins so that they are born again. Only God can do that. One interpretation of this passage of scripture would say that Jesus is teaching that if we fail to witness to others, we are retaining their sins unto them, and if we do share His love with others we are remitting their sins. Now although there may be some truth in that interpretation as I understand it this is not what the passage is teaching. I lean to the fact that this verse is dealing with the temporal effects that sin has on a persons life. Sin pays a wage, and that wage not only results eventually in death it also destroys us emotionally and physically in this life too. I believe that it is this present consequence of sin in our lives that Jesus gives us the power to remit. (1) Through the faithfull preaching of the Gospel and their acceptance of it we can remit a persons sin even though they have sown to the flesh and deserve to reap corruption (Gal 6:8). By accepting the Gospel they will not reap that which they have sown. (2) Through intercession we can also remit a persons sin through loosing them from the bondage of satan and praying that they may see the light and repent. However it must be said that there are times when people need to be made painfully aware of the consequences of their sin when under the discipline of God and it is in this sense that we have the power to retain sin, that is to withdraw our intercession in the hope that by reaping what they sow this will cause them to turn back to a loving God. This is how I understand the passage. Rebmilc, that certainly is an interesting take. I didn't come to this view myself as I am off it seems on a whole different avenue altogether in my studies it seems. maybe i'll share them later and wait to see what others might have to say and add. And you comments and views are very much welcomed here in this thread and appreciated thank you so much for your response i hope you have others. blessings OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 You may find some of the answers here. Yours in Christ Jesus, Tim. Hello Hoosier, Thanks for the link it was interesting read. But it seems I am also not in the same train of thought as what was written in the article either but thank you for the link any information is helpful. It is a very interesting verse of scripture as I have been pondering on it for some time even. thank you so much for your response hope you also have others blessings OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted September 3, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2006 I am curious to what others opinions are relating to this verse of scripture it is found in John 20:23--"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." I have my own thoughts in my own study on this verse but I want others views about it so I can see if my own studies surrounding this verse is balanced. thank you in advance for your thoughts on this. OC This is a verse that provides authority to the church to absolve sins. Confession and absolution of sin are an important segment of the Christian life. It is a great comfort to hear the pastor announce that our sins have been forgiven. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 there are sins against God, and sins against man. mankind can not grant a person forgiveness for sins against God, only God can do that. but we have every ability (and responsibility) to forgive others for things they do that hurt us individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternalFlame Posted September 4, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 422 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/24/1985 Share Posted September 4, 2006 To me, I see the meaning as this: if you cannot forigive others you will not be forgiven yourself. For whatever sin commited against you that you do not forgive it will not be forgiven of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I am curious to what others opinions are relating to this verse of scripture it is found in John 20:23--"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." I have my own thoughts in my own study on this verse but I want others views about it so I can see if my own studies surrounding this verse is balanced. thank you in advance for your thoughts on this. OC It is as restatement of Matt. 16:19. Jesus referred to this has the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. What a lot of people do not realize is that Jesus was a Rabbi. These words are not original with Jesus. It was customary for this to be said by a Rabbi to whose who were his disciples. A Rabbi's authority was three-fold. They had the power to judiciate, Legislate and teach. The disciples did a lot of teaching, and they legislated for the community of believers as we see in Acts 15, and this third part, the part that John 20:23 is dealing with is to judiciate, in other words to settle disputes within the community. Jesus was NOT giving the disciples the power to forgive sins in the absolute sense, like Jesus Himself, did. He gave them power to judiciate between parties and hold a guilty party guilty, and to decree sentence on the guilty party. They also had the power to pardon if need be. All of this was only done of course as the Holy Spirit led. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted September 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Gee, I thought it was REALLY QUITE CLEAR. I don't understand all the dancing around it, and excuse making for it. I don't get all the hermeneutical gymnastics to avoid it. What we see in the above posts is the old "100 reasons why the Bible doesn't mean what it says, or say what it means" approach to Scripture....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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