santa claus the evil and dangerous deceiver

[LadyRaven]

Batman could kick Santa's butt.

So could the teen titans

and the macstoogies

[LightofJesus]

We as a society have played into this Santa thing for so long that it is "TRADITION" and now we are going to sit back and let them take Christ out of Christmas? I agree with this stuff about Santa it is an intruder of true meaning of Christmas and way to commercialized. We exchange gifts and get all crazy about all the fuss and have pushed Jesus out. I know that "CHRISTIAN" homes have there thing however they do Christmas, but those that are Christians and their family isn't they are standing alone and the true meaning slips by. I am talking about a whole society that has been robbed of the true meaning of our Lord and Saviour's birth. It isn't about gifts, when gifts should be given all year long, it isn't even about getting together to do a party or a dinner we should get together all year long or plan to get together at some point why does EVERYONE do it the same day what are they really celebrating? When I was growing up all it did was start family fights that lasted for YEARS so much for the MERRY MERRY. Oh well I guess I got carried away here. I guess all I am saying is that it is not just a little thing when it comes to what we are doing with CHRISTMAS. It should be only about the birth of our KING

[Leonard]

Much ado about nothing.

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...........

[Scarletprayers]

Much ado about nothing.

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...........

I agree 100%, I don't understand how some "Christians" live their entire lives with nothing but fear about everything.

[sweetycakes]

It is obvious from reading all your replies that there are some who strongly agree with me, and some who strongly disagree.

My 2 main reasons for believing and posting what I did are:

1. Santa does indeed take the attention away from Jesus (whose birth we are supposed to be celebrating ) at Christmas, and

2. Santa is a stylized depiction of Thor, the 'god' of thunder, among other things, and as such, is demonic, and dangerous, as a thorough reading of the article will clearly show. I did warn you it was a long article, but it is worth the reading.

I'm certainly not intending to spoil Christmas for anybody. I LOVE Christmas, and look forward to it for weeks in advance, but for the reasons of Christian love and joy and giving.

This evil figure is a usurper, an imposter, a demon. I know these are strong words. But you wouldn't want any other idol or devil in your house, and depicted as a 'good' thing to your children, would you?

For those who think I am just being alarmist and over-reacting, if you haven't read the article, I would encourage you to do so.

Thanks again for taking the time to read it and respond, all those of you who did.

God bless you

[Gerioke]

It is obvious from reading all your replies that there are some who strongly agree with me, and some who strongly disagree.

My 2 main reasons for believing and posting what I did are:

1. Santa does indeed take the attention away from Jesus (whose birth we are supposed to be celebrating ) at Christmas, and

2. Santa is a stylized depiction of Thor, the 'god' of thunder, among other things, and as such, is demonic, and dangerous, as a thorough reading of the article will clearly show. I did warn you it was a long article, but it is worth the reading.

I'm certainly not intending to spoil Christmas for anybody. I LOVE Christmas, and look forward to it for weeks in advance, but for the reasons of Christian love and joy and giving.

This evil figure is a usurper, an imposter, a demon. I know these are strong words. But you wouldn't want any other idol or devil in your house, and depicted as a 'good' thing to your children, would you?

For those who think I am just being alarmist and over-reacting, if you haven't read the article, I would encourage you to do so.

Thanks again for taking the time to read it and respond, all those of you who did.

God bless you

If I was a viking I would be worried. No where is it legislated that we have to celebrate the birth of Christ on Dec. 25. My family celebrates on Jan. 6 (the 12th day). We all know Santa is a goon with no Christian elements. He and the Easter bunny are probably sitting around laughing their guts out at how Christians fear them while God shakes His head and asks"where is the faith."

[LadyRaven]

We as a society have played into this Santa thing for so long that it is "TRADITION" and now we are going to sit back and let them take Christ out of Christmas? I agree with this stuff about Santa it is an intruder of true meaning of Christmas and way to commercialized. We exchange gifts and get all crazy about all the fuss and have pushed Jesus out. I know that "CHRISTIAN" homes have there thing however they do Christmas, but those that are Christians and their family isn't they are standing alone and the true meaning slips by. I am talking about a whole society that has been robbed of the true meaning of our Lord and Saviour's birth. It isn't about gifts, when gifts should be given all year long, it isn't even about getting together to do a party or a dinner we should get together all year long or plan to get together at some point why does EVERYONE do it the same day what are they really celebrating? When I was growing up all it did was start family fights that lasted for YEARS so much for the MERRY MERRY. Oh well I guess I got carried away here. I guess all I am saying is that it is not just a little thing when it comes to what we are doing with CHRISTMAS. It should be only about the birth of our KING

Remember folks, Christmas is not a holiday codified by the Bible and there is no biblical method for observing it. We are free to observe as we please, or not if we really don't want to.

[LadyRaven]

Here are my thoughts directly about the webpage:

While I do understand the importance of the tender years for childrearing and evangelism, I don't rely on polls and whatnot to tell me what my God is and is not capable of doing in the lives of anyone. The truth is that none of us would be saved at all without a direct touch from God which takes care of our heart of stone and opens our spiritual eyes and ears. Without that we can't be saved at all, and once that happens nobody can stop it from happening.

IF I were Orthodox and worried about the reputation of the saints, I would probably be livid about the pop culture santa...and would want the true St Nicholas of Myra to be used if anything. But I'm not. Does anyone get this bent out of shape about the legends surrounding St Patrick, St David, St Andrew or St Christopher? No. While the last three aren't really connected to popular holidays celebrated by Christian and Secularist alike, St Patrick is. I'm not going to devolve into discussing whether its wise to pray to saints so that's about all I'm going to say on this point.

The point is that this is a legend for which we have very little proof of where it started. Most legends are like that. However I find, after searching the internet (I'm fairly familiar with some norse mythology, but I just wanted to have another look) that there is less tangible evidence that Santa is Odin or Thor than St Nicholas. There's a big difference between a horse with 8 legs and a team of eight reindeer, and a hammer as symbol of a Norse God and the use of a hammer by a toy maker is NOT close to the same thing. (For one thing, the hammer of Thor on earth was a symbol of power, I dare say the hammer of santa is hardly so)

The logical journey from Santa to Knect Ruprecht, the dark whatever is just not tenible. The author of the article basically spent half a page insisting that the St Nick tradition did not exist until recent history, and then went back to this supposedly non-existant tradition to take Knecht Ruprecht from it and insist that this is Santa Claus. It makes less sense than the Thor theory because at least the author has not gone beforehand and insisted there was no Norse traditions of fat dudes who give gifts.

Moving the letters around from Santa to Satan proves nothing and is not even logical as an arguement.

While the Kriss Kringle section is worth pausing over somewhat...In Germany the Christ Child does bring the Christmas gifts, and St Nicholaus has his own day on Dec 6. It's not necessarily a problem with the character of Santa that people don't understand German and decide to mistransliterate things. (The Term PA Dutch came from the fact that in German, the word German is Deutsch and people thought they said Dutch...) Speakers of the English language tend to mess up foreign words on a fairly regular basis. This does not mean that this was an occult attempt to make Santa into Jesus. It means soeone can't speak German.

The appearance of Santa vs whatever little we know about the appearance of the Glorified Jesus is another one of those stupid arguements. I have a friend who could easily pass for "santa" because of his beard, I don't accuse and never would accuse him of attempting to mimic Jesus. (In fact I think he prefers to think he's mimicing Robert E Lee). When you have to reach in and pull out stuff like this, your arguement has many problems. In fact, getting back to the Robert E Lee thing... there was a period of time in our history that many of our older men had long white beards, so going with the whole notion that what we know of as Santa is an American construct, this would make sense as he was supposed to be quite old...And the supposed Santa Claus is a TOY MAKER not a carpenter. (and possibly a slave holder, I dunno) The author needs to decide if satan or God actually says ho ho before bringing it up and saying that santa is attempting or is supposed to be mimicing ... sheesh. I've heard of circular reasoning but this is more...

Really I see no reason to go on...

Who or what is Santa?

Santa is a mass market icon invented in the early 1900s to sell stuff. He is not German, Dutch, Norse or English, he is American...but in the current form he is loosely based on several traditions and legends from various parts of the world which may or may not be linked to St Nicholas of Myra. Some items from various traditions were "borrowed" and placed in the persona we come to know as Santa due to the fact that the United States is a melting pot of cultures and we tend to do that. The fact that some traditions were moved from Dec 6 and the fact that there are some things in Santas appearance which resemble Jesus have more to do with where those things came from than any attempt to "be" Jesus.

I appreciate what the author is trying to do, any tradition can be taken and made into something dangerous. One way is to give it too much credence, which is what many people have done by forcing their children into a fantasy life that they wouldn't have if it was presented as a legend is normally presented ... "it is said that on the darkest night of the year..." or whatever...

Another way that things become more than they should is when controversy about them takes center stage in someone's life. This can happen if Christmas is not centered around Christ. It can also happen when people take something as silly as a child's story and make into a satanist conspiracy and devote too much time to this endeavor.

And lastly, we are supposed to take dominion over the things of the earth. Taking pagan things and changing the meaning of them (like holly at Christmas) is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It doesn't matter where this legend comes from, it matters what you do with it. My nephew had problems believing that God knew everything but had no problem with Santa doing it. SO, I did what any believing aunt would have done and asked if it was more logical to believe that a human being could live forever and know everything or the creator of human beings to do so. When he got older and read Tolkien I used that and the Santa legend together as allegory, because it can be if you see it that way and not all allegory is bad.

If you feel led to celebrate Christmas (not all Christians do, and there is no Biblical Mandate to do that) and you feel that the legend of Santa takes away from your experience, don't do it. I have a friend who buys a minature santa and minature elf christmas tree ornament every year and tosses them into his fireplace. "That's not what Christmas is about" But don't waste your time worrying about the origins of a being which doesn't exist in the first place. When you do this you put that myth in an artificial spotlight.

What do I personally worry about? Well...the United States seems to be enamoured by the Roman Empire. What has happened in reference to the legend of Santa reflects exactly how much the culture of the US mimics that of Rome. Rome used to conquer people and just absorb their religious practices without batting an eyelash, as well as many of their other traditions. This is another example of the Roman mindset in the US, that concerns me because...look what happened to Rome.

[sweetycakes]

Here are my thoughts directly about the webpage:

While I do understand the importance of the tender years for childrearing and evangelism, I don't rely on polls and whatnot to tell me what my God is and is not capable of doing in the lives of anyone. The truth is that none of us would be saved at all without a direct touch from God which takes care of our heart of stone and opens our spiritual eyes and ears. Without that we can't be saved at all, and once that happens nobody can stop it from happening.

IF I were Orthodox and worried about the reputation of the saints, I would probably be livid about the pop culture santa...and would want the true St Nicholas of Myra to be used if anything. But I'm not. Does anyone get this bent out of shape about the legends surrounding St Patrick, St David, St Andrew or St Christopher? No. While the last three aren't really connected to popular holidays celebrated by Christian and Secularist alike, St Patrick is. I'm not going to devolve into discussing whether its wise to pray to saints so that's about all I'm going to say on this point.

The point is that this is a legend for which we have very little proof of where it started. Most legends are like that. However I find, after searching the internet (I'm fairly familiar with some norse mythology, but I just wanted to have another look) that there is less tangible evidence that Santa is Odin or Thor than St Nicholas. There's a big difference between a horse with 8 legs and a team of eight reindeer, and a hammer as symbol of a Norse God and the use of a hammer by a toy maker is NOT close to the same thing. (For one thing, the hammer of Thor on earth was a symbol of power, I dare say the hammer of santa is hardly so)

The logical journey from Santa to Knect Ruprecht, the dark whatever is just not tenible. The author of the article basically spent half a page insisting that the St Nick tradition did not exist until recent history, and then went back to this supposedly non-existant tradition to take Knecht Ruprecht from it and insist that this is Santa Claus. It makes less sense than the Thor theory because at least the author has not gone beforehand and insisted there was no Norse traditions of fat dudes who give gifts.

Moving the letters around from Santa to Satan proves nothing and is not even logical as an arguement.

While the Kriss Kringle section is worth pausing over somewhat...In Germany the Christ Child does bring the Christmas gifts, and St Nicholaus has his own day on Dec 6. It's not necessarily a problem with the character of Santa that people don't understand German and decide to mistransliterate things. (The Term PA Dutch came from the fact that in German, the word German is Deutsch and people thought they said Dutch...) Speakers of the English language tend to mess up foreign words on a fairly regular basis. This does not mean that this was an occult attempt to make Santa into Jesus. It means soeone can't speak German.

The appearance of Santa vs whatever little we know about the appearance of the Glorified Jesus is another one of those stupid arguements. I have a friend who could easily pass for "santa" because of his beard, I don't accuse and never would accuse him of attempting to mimic Jesus. (In fact I think he prefers to think he's mimicing Robert E Lee). When you have to reach in and pull out stuff like this, your arguement has many problems. In fact, getting back to the Robert E Lee thing... there was a period of time in our history that many of our older men had long white beards, so going with the whole notion that what we know of as Santa is an American construct, this would make sense as he was supposed to be quite old...And the supposed Santa Claus is a TOY MAKER not a carpenter. (and possibly a slave holder, I dunno) The author needs to decide if satan or God actually says ho ho before bringing it up and saying that santa is attempting or is supposed to be mimicing ... sheesh. I've heard of circular reasoning but this is more...

Really I see no reason to go on...

Who or what is Santa?

Santa is a mass market icon invented in the early 1900s to sell stuff. He is not German, Dutch, Norse or English, he is American...but in the current form he is loosely based on several traditions and legends from various parts of the world which may or may not be linked to St Nicholas of Myra. Some items from various traditions were "borrowed" and placed in the persona we come to know as Santa due to the fact that the United States is a melting pot of cultures and we tend to do that. The fact that some traditions were moved from Dec 6 and the fact that there are some things in Santas appearance which resemble Jesus have more to do with where those things came from than any attempt to "be" Jesus.

I appreciate what the author is trying to do, any tradition can be taken and made into something dangerous. One way is to give it too much credence, which is what many people have done by forcing their children into a fantasy life that they wouldn't have if it was presented as a legend is normally presented ... "it is said that on the darkest night of the year..." or whatever...

Another way that things become more than they should is when controversy about them takes center stage in someone's life. This can happen if Christmas is not centered around Christ. It can also happen when people take something as silly as a child's story and make into a satanist conspiracy and devote too much time to this endeavor.

And lastly, we are supposed to take dominion over the things of the earth. Taking pagan things and changing the meaning of them (like holly at Christmas) is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It doesn't matter where this legend comes from, it matters what you do with it. My nephew had problems believing that God knew everything but had no problem with Santa doing it. SO, I did what any believing aunt would have done and asked if it was more logical to believe that a human being could live forever and know everything or the creator of human beings to do so. When he got older and read Tolkien I used that and the Santa legend together as allegory, because it can be if you see it that way and not all allegory is bad.

If you feel led to celebrate Christmas (not all Christians do, and there is no Biblical Mandate to do that) and you feel that the legend of Santa takes away from your experience, don't do it. I have a friend who buys a minature santa and minature elf christmas tree ornament every year and tosses them into his fireplace. "That's not what Christmas is about" But don't waste your time worrying about the origins of a being which doesn't exist in the first place. When you do this you put that myth in an artificial spotlight.

What do I personally worry about? Well...the United States seems to be enamoured by the Roman Empire. What has happened in reference to the legend of Santa reflects exactly how much the culture of the US mimics that of Rome. Rome used to conquer people and just absorb their religious practices without batting an eyelash, as well as many of their other traditions. This is another example of the Roman mindset in the US, that concerns me because...look what happened to Rome.

Ladyraven, that is a very thorough, balanced and thought out answer. Thank you. While I don't necessarily agree with everything you said 100%, I see that you have given a great deal of thought to your answer. A very sober response, and one I respect.

(I still won't have any santa figures or songs at home in future, though, simply because of it's occult traditions, which we are warned about)

Again, thank you and God bless

[billie]

amen